Interesting things with Ireland (XL - Early)

Since I did Scotland and played them last night, I thought I'd do the other 1 prov faction up there, and try my hand at the Irish...

One thing I notice.. the Irish have FAR BETTER troops than Scotland or England.. for instance, the Irish START with Fianna Eirann (Joms Vikings), Gael Gaedhils (Berserkers) and Gallowglasses.. all VERY GOOD attacking troops..

So obviously offense is a key Irish attitude...
So with Offense.. the 1st target is definately Wales...

I build:

1 barque & 3 gallowglasses
Watch Tower, Church (happiness)
Trade Post & +60% farm ($$$$)

Now I dunno if this is a bug, or if it was done on purpose, and I started a new game with the Irish 5 times... and on Normal, the starting money is 10,000 florins instead of the 8,000 expected...

so if this was done on purpose, then the Irish has an advantage right there...

so 1096, I took Wales which would finally give me a profit, I also built a 2nd Barque and stuck it in the Channel which freaked out the Scots and English who promptly gave my an alliance.

So by 1100: I am now looking at assaulting Brittany/Flanders or taking the rest of the isles, since I have MUCH better offensive troops than the english, as thier best generals are on 'French' soil instead of on the Isles.

At this point, I know building a town guard would be useless, since I could tech up to Armored Spearmen soon enough, so I would continue the econ boost.. Merchant and +80% farm, and of course I built a watchtower and port in wales...

So at this point, I probably would hit the English while they are weak and take the rest of the isles and the Irish have better troops, it gives one a BIG advantage as the English have the $ and provinces .. but taking the English out of the Isles would be fun as the French will then take the rest of France and take out the English...

I tried the Irish once (Early/Expert/Large units), and found it incredibly easy. I had a "house rule" of not training archers (to make it consistent with VI Irish), unless they were regional specialties - so Welsh longbows etc were okay. I made a slightly different start by bribing the Welsh rebels, then shipping them up to Scotland and taking out the Scots first before starting on the English.

I also had made a minor mod to the startpos in my version of XL, and the Irish actually start with one ship, as the AI-controlled Irish usually just fester on the island, and I found this gave them a bit of 'get up and go'. (Usually they take out the Scots first, as well....~D)

As you say, the Irish have some great melee troops, and it was a real steamroller ride across Western Europe before I got bored and went and tried another faction, even though I had very few missile troops.

Oh, yes, the starting florins on different difficulties are actually fixed by the startpos file, not calculated. So the 10k won't be a "bug", but a specific decision by VH when he wrote the mod.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by macsen rufus

So the 10k won't be a "bug", but a specific decision by VH when he wrote the mod.

---

cool!... :yes:

and I'll try another game to attack the Scots and bribe those Welsh troops... I totally forget about bribing generals..lol

I already told some things about my Irish campaing in an other topic, but here comes some more!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Bribing the Welsh is indeed a good start, but you'd better do that quite early, as the economy of the Irish sucks bit time. After that I found out that the rest of England is a bit too easy to take, just pump those Gael Ghaedils, thats all you need to beat the crap outta everything you'll encounter for a while. So dont bother on any armored spearmen, when you get some valour to your Gaels they are capable of dealing with cavalry too thanks to their armor piercing attack. One of my four or five valour Gaels where flanked by a full unit of royal knights while beating up a full unit of fyrdmen, Gaels lost four guys to RK's charge and then sliced them to meatloaf, and after dealing with the knights smashed the fyrdmen completely down. I love those guys! ~:cheers: Once you conquer Mercia you can build another great addition to your army, Sherwood foresters. they are nearly as powerful in melee as Gaels, plus they can shoot missiles and they can hidein the open. And then you'll have a great army, capable of crushing much bigger foes easily, and that isn't all, their support cost is very low so your income will be very high. ;)

I didn't know the Irish could build Shewood Foresters. Why can't the English or Scots do it!? I'm off to Ireland after I finish my Genoan campaign!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Darkhorn

I didn't know the Irish could build Shewood Foresters. Why can't the English or Scots do it!?

---

To build Sherwood Foresters you need a bowyers workshop in mercia. It will work as the scots or english, but you can only build them in mercia. I think any faction can build them, as long as they own mercia, but im not sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Darkhorn

I didn't know the Irish could build Shewood Foresters. Why can't the English or Scots do it!? I'm off to Ireland after I finish my Genoan campaign!!

---

I'm pretty sure that any faction can get them... They are way fun to use! I once built an entire stack of them except for a 3-4 * general to give them valor bonus! :grin: As for the Irish, I fell in love with their kerns and bonnachts! Their anit-armour bonus eats through heavy infantry like popcorn! :laugh4:

I've found my Irish MTW XL homies very difficult. The English, even in Easy mode, build large armies quickly and aren't at war right away with France, so they can concentrate thier forces against you if you invade Scotland or Wales. Maybe I just need to be more aggresive.

i don't know i've found the Irish to be as easy as the Byzantines,They do have a awesome early troop selection,and an early English alliance allowed me to conquer Scotland,Wales and Denmark pretty quick without being excommunicated

Denmark is an interesting choice. I would go for the ancient Celtic heartlands of France, Spain and Northern Italy starting with Brittany.

No, Denmark was my choice also.

Come to think of it, and I detailed my Irish campaign in the main forum, had I taken Wales and Scotland, and developed those two provinces into powerful, well garrisoned states instead of hustling for war - I could of had a trading empire.

With which I could of conquered Scandinavia, Scania and Denmark without upsetting the English, and remaining firm allies with them.
They trusted me, Longshanks trusted me, and I betrayed him heartily.

You make one mistake (say getting screwed over by the Scots after helping them against those darn Norwegians) you are up a proveriable creek.

DON'T go to war with the English unless you have to.

I've just started an Early Expert XL campaign as the Irish.

It's proving interesting so far, and I love having access to Berserkers in the form of Gael Gaedhil. Celtic Warriors make an excellent Garrison troop thanks to 100 man unit size and they can be a very effective combat troop to boot. Add in Armoured Spearmen, a better option and any of the normally available Spears and you have the makings of a solid army structure.

As for a large shield wall, a few Kerns lined up behind them to rain Javelins on anyone who closes for Melee. And plenty of options for combat infantry in the form of Gallowglasses, Gael Gaedhil, Celtic Warriors and the more solid Fianna Eireann who are basically a souped up FMAA. Padding out your army with Celtics is a good way to get your numbers up and make sure you aren't outnumbered by the enemy. Keeps your troops morale up better that way.

One thing I did notice though was that troop production was very limited given you only have 1 province to train from and that's the same place you need to be producing Ships from and money is very limited.

I opted to take Northumbria first. Primarily because of it's trade value, but even aside from it's trade resources it has copper for mines and great farming opportunities. Basically it's cash cow that I need to milk very hard. I landed there with an army, and soon after, the English arrived to lift the siege. While outnumbered 2-1 I was able to thoroughly hammer them, kill their king and capture 600 prisoners inc. a prince. 6K ransom was just what I needed to finance reinforcements and develop the now completely looted Northumbria.

English offered me a princess for an alliance which I took greatfully as I didn't fancy fighting off their masses of troops backed with Royal knights. Numbers and attrition would ahve been a real problem, especially because I couldn't ship reinforcements in.

Had to build Fort, Port and Trader so had 10 turns with basically no income from it, but it's doing ok now so I have just got to hold onto peace long enough to get some more cash togetehr and build up the navy.

Just a quick question, does Ireland have access to heavy calvary later in the game ?
I am just starting an Irish Empire, but not sure if I want to continue if I reach High period with basically the same unit as in Early.

Only true heavy cavalry option is really Royal Knights. I don't think they get Feudal or Chivalric's.

RK's do just fine in that capacity though as you are typically using your Heavy cavalry to smash pinned units to pieces, and the RK's do this well. Having a couple of units ot RK's savage the enemy archers then turn and charge into the rear of an engaged enemy is a beautiful thing to watch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by macsen rufus

I tried the Irish once (Early/Expert/Large units), and found it incredibly easy. I had a "house rule" of not training archers (to make it consistent with VI Irish), unless they were regional specialties - so Welsh longbows etc were okay. I made a slightly different start by bribing the Welsh rebels, then shipping them up to Scotland and taking out the Scots first before starting on the English.
Oh, yes, the starting florins on different difficulties are actually fixed by the startpos file, not calculated. So the 10k won't be a "bug", but a specific decision by VH when he wrote the mod.

---

I cannot recruit longbows with the Irish, I don't think they are an available unit. Also, when I started an expert early XL campaign with the Irish they only had 8000 Florins. Irish have great early infantry, but seriously lack calvary and archers. I will update on the campaign is going.

I looked up the unit info on the longbow and it's not available unit the high period (1205) for the English, so the Irish may be able to recruit them. I will find out when I progress in my campaign.
I miswrote the above post, I meant to say that I started with 6,000 florins in expert, and I checked hard which starts with 8,000 florins.

Irish XL (Early/Expert/6000 florins) have a strongly defended position surrounded by the Irish and North seas in northwest Europe with only the Scots and English to contend with at first. The accessible strong, elite infantry to recruit from the start is the main advantage of the Irish, aggression is key.

The are a few difficulties for the Irish and it seems a campaign will get harder in the high and late periods, as the other factions develop their heavy cavalry and elite troops. Only 1 starting province seriously limits income, recruiting, building, and navy. Also, the Irish can’t build a chapter house, which means No Crusades! a major drawback for a Catholic faction.

The backbone of conquering armies are Fianna Eireann, Highland Warriors, and Armored Spearmen. Gallowglasses, Celtic Warriors, Highland Clansmen, and Bonnachts all are good and cheap garrison troops.
This faction lacks archers and cavalry units. Can only recruit peasant archers, and later Sherwood Foresters in Mercia, and Dejma if certain Mediterranean islands are conquered. The only cavalry to recruit are Irish Horsemen (Jinetes) and Royal Knights. Can recruit Viking raider cavalry if conquer Scandinavia and Jinetes if conquer Iberian Peninsula. I think the Irish can recruit Avar Nobles (only in early period) with a horse breeder and armorer if conquer Moldavia, and Lithuanian Cavalry are available to all factions from Lithuania, Livonia, and Volhynia once the High period arrives. Wallachian Mercenary Cavalry are available with a horse breeder if conquer Wallachia.

First I planned the conquest of the British Isles (Wales, Scotland, Nothrumbia, Merica, Wessex) and Northern France (Brittany, Normandy, Flanders) depending on English holdings and French/German aggression. In Ireland, rose taxes very high , built a church, armorer, improved farmland 60%. Recruited 2 unit Irish Horsemen, then 1 Barque. Conquered Wales in 1807 with Prince Diarmaid my whole garrison, except King Diarmaid. 1088 to 1100 allied with England, Novgord, Cumans, declined marriage proposal of Scottish, built siege engineer workshop, recruited galloglasses, Fianna Eireann, Gael Gaedhis, and catapults. England was Excommunicated, Allied with the French, who have beaten back England in Normandy and Flanders, then Killed William the Conquer in battle, seceded by heir Edmund III.

1100, conquered Scotland, killed King Malcolm in battle, eliminated Scottish. 1102, marriage proposal of French excepted, Irish King Dies, seceded by Diarmaid II. The English Faction erupts in civil war, King Edmund III overthrown by King Thomas I, all English lands lost in France. 1105 to 1112, conquered Northumbia, Mercia, as English withdraw to Wessex. English defend Wessex at the Thames and the battle of 2 bridges ensues, invader Prince Dermont (3 star/ 687 men) attacks King Thomas I (3 star/1075 men). The English were massacred, their King died in battle, the Irish killed 428, captured 570, and lost 297men.

1112 to 1125, Ard Ri Diarmaid II now king of the Celtic Isles and building a northern trade empire. Built a fleet of Barques from the Baltic Sea to the Iberian Peninsula, developing Northumbia and Scotland into major trade centers, while Ireland, Wales, Scotland, and Merica recruiting centers and strongholds. Economic infrastructure built up (ports, merchants, copper mines, and agriculture) income is exceeding 2000 florins a turn, much trade with French allies who are the richest and strongest faction. Planning the conquest of Scandinavia (Denmark, Scania, Sweden, Norway, Finland), Denmark is excommunicated and has overextended its forces conquering much of the Baltic regions. In 1125 assassinated the Irish heir, Prince Dermont, who became an unhinged loon and was not suitable for rule. New heir is Prince Tienan (Killer Instinct, Numerate, Believer) a far more suitable king.

1126 to 1130 Invaded and conquered Denmark and Scania, Then Sweden and Norway, eliminating the Norwegians, last conquered Finland and Eliminated the Danes, while the powerful French annihilated the HRE and Lithuanians crusading their way to Lithuania.

1130 to 1150 Have extended trade to the Mediterranean and the Adriatic seas, have 6 stacks and still making 2,500 florins a turn. Preparing to invade the Volgar Bulgars in Novgord, Livonia, and Muscovy, and bring large armies of priest to convert all the Pagan, Orthodox, and Muslim populaces.

Future plans are to conquer southwards down the steppe plains to the Black Sea, and take Moldavia and Wallachia for their cavalry units. Plan to start recruiting Lithuanian Cavalry from Livonia in 1205 and see if longbows can be recruited as well. Need to build up large citadels in Eastern Europe and prepare for the Golden Horde to invade. I can’t exactly remember when the Mongols come, is it around 1230? I wonder what my best strategy would be against the powerful Mongol cavalry? May have to withdraw to fortifications and constantly defend until I wear their stacks down.