Re: Turks & Islam at 1080
I would agree with you. Having the cities pagan would indeed be cool. But the things is the Turks accepted Muslim very quickly and easily because it had many similarities with their initial beliefs. What's more, the Arabs didn't force the religion on the Turks, The Turks learnt about it during the war with China, and soon accepted Islam themselves. So it shouldn't be that much of a challange if you ask me.
Re: Turks & Islam at 1080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denizar
I would agree with you. Having the cities pagan would indeed be cool. But the things is the Turks accepted Muslim very quickly and easily because it had many similarities with their initial beliefs. What's more, the Arabs didn't force the religion on the Turks, The Turks learnt about it during the war with China, and soon accepted Islam themselves. So it shouldn't be that much of a challange if you ask me.
i 100% agree. Some tribes didn't converted to Islam but they were a minority.
Re: Turks & Islam at 1080
by 1080 most turks were muslims since they accepted islam very quickly. however, there still should be a large pagan presence in turkish settelments
Re: Turks & Islam at 1080
There are some sort of shamanistic cults whith in the tribes that formed the Seldjuk sultanate they outlasted the fall of the state in the second half of 13th century and are even recorded in the work of Mummed Neshri "Mirror of the World" regarding the rise of Osman-Gazi and his election as "heir" of Alp Arslan in spring of 1285/86:book:
Re: Turks & Islam at 1080
Our Turkish department has taken a hit since we have not heard frm our Turkish researcher in ages, I assume he's busy with his PhD. So we are looking for Turkish historical researcher who can commit to this mod.
Rest assured that the Turks will be Turks and not represented and shortranged as Arabs.
There are three Turkic factions:
- Khwarezm (Transoxiana) - not in specific reference to the Khwarezmian Empire, but to the the region "Khwarezm" and Sughuda.
- Turkic Sultanate - represents the Seljuk and Ottoman Dynasties
- Qipchaqs - Pagan Turks :idea2:
Sufi Islam is something I want to represent dearly in the mod, I'm inclined in the belief that mystic Sufis had more appeal to the Pagan Turks who had their mystic tradition than mainstream Orthodox Islam and were able to bring about a more or less mainstream integration of Turks into Islam than the efforts of Mainstream Islam would ever be able to achieve.
If you were a pagan Turk who believed in Tengri and had a Shamanistic background in your culture, woudl you identity with the learned and educated Islamic scholar or perhaps with the Sufi mystic who seemed to be more familar and identifiable to?
Either way, it would be good to represent Sufis and also the Tengrist religion
Re: Turks & Islam at 1080
I would love to help however I am very busy, as it is my final year in IB. However, if you still need a researcher by this summer, I would be available, you can pm me. I am Turkish and I have, especially concerning the Ottoman Empire, a reasonable amount of knowledge.
Re: Turks & Islam at 1080
Hi, I would like you to help you in researching Turkish history. I am a MA student in International Relations, and have a holiday of a full month before me:beam: I would gladly accept to make some researchment on a topic that you will determine!
Re: Turks & Islam at 1080
Re: Turks & Islam at 1080
Quote:
Originally Posted by kataphraktoi
- Turkic Sultanate - represents the Seljuk and Ottoman Dynasties
Will two dynasties be represented under one banner? I think it would be unsuitable.Altough Ottoman Empire is historical and political successor of the Seljuk Empire,dynastically not. What do you think about it?
Re: Turks & Islam at 1080
Seljuk Turk at the time of Arpl Aslan,the victor of majikert where pagans folowing their mongol tradition.They where new in the region and their state was small but powerfull.Powerfull because of their allainces whith other emerging turkomanic tribes.The real muslim state in the regin was Chorasmian Sultanate and the arabic halifates ofcource.Turks became muslims under the leadership of the kourdish dynasties in 12th cent. like Saladin and his dynasty.:book:
Re: Turks & Islam at 1080
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthoniusII
Seljuk Turk at the time of Arpl Aslan,the victor of majikert where pagans folowing their mongol tradition.They where new in the region and their state was small but powerfull.Powerfull because of their allainces whith other emerging turkomanic tribes.The real muslim state in the regin was Chorasmian Sultanate and the arabic halifates ofcource.Turks became muslims under the leadership of the kourdish dynasties in 12th cent. like Saladin and his dynasty.:book:
http://img11.yukle.tc/images/531lol_.gif
yeah and the byzantines were politeists which believed in Zeus and his Gods. they were converted to christianity after the latins plundered Konstantinopolis ;)
-turks are not mongols
-turks converted to Islam in the 8th century after they allied with the arabs and fought against the chinese.
-the city in english (and i think in Greek too) is called Manzikert and in turkish Malazgirt
-Saladin was the only kurdish leader in History so which kurdish dynasties are you talking about?
kalatawes? edaxi?
Re: Turks & Islam at 1080
In anthropology (science about human races) all turanic tribes (turks,torkomans,kiptcacks,hazars,iugures ect.) are relative to the mongol race.Their native place of birth is between western China and shouth Mongolia.Mongol historians who whrote the personal history of Jencins Han and they lived that time, mentioned this detail.From the other hand there is an agreement ,that has been found the last years,between the byzantine emperor Heracleios and turkish emisaries for an atack against the Persian Empire, from west by the byzantine forces and east by the united turkish forces. In the agreement all parts mention that they want to protect their interests about the silk road.Turkish tribes such the Seljuks emerged in to asia minor after the 9th cent.They where pagans but there was a minority that exepted christianity,before islam,only for the reason of being mercenaries in the byzantine army.The sons of these mercenaries called "Torkoples"(turkopouloi in greek)that meens sons of turks.P.S.The agreement that i mentioned before is in the "Instabul"museum.:book:
Re: Turks & Islam at 1080
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthoniusII
In anthropology (science about human races) all turanic tribes (turks,torkomans,kiptcacks,hazars,iugures ect.) are relative to the mongol race.Their native place of birth is between western China and shouth Mongolia.Mongol historians who whrote the personal history of Jencins Han and they lived that time, mentioned this detail.From the other hand there is an agreement ,that has been found the last years,between the byzantine emperor Heracleios and turkish emisaries for an atack against the Persian Empire, from west by the byzantine forces and east by the united turkish forces. In the agreement all parts mention that they want to protect their interests about the silk road.Turkish tribes such the Seljuks emerged in to asia minor after the 9th cent.They where pagans but there was a minority that exepted christianity,before islam,only for the reason of being mercenaries in the byzantine army.The sons of these mercenaries called "Torkoples"(turkopouloi in greek)that meens sons of turks.P.S.The agreement that i mentioned before is in the "Instabul"museum.:book:
hmm maybe you mean Ur-Altaic people that doesn't make us to mongols :) i'm not sure but there is a blood relationship possible because we buildet many states with the mongols.
The Seljuks entered Anatolia in 1057 in Malazgirt after they had defeated the Byzantines.
Maybe the Oguz tribe (where Seljuk came and buildet his own state) were pagans... but they also believed in one God (the skygod Gök-tengri and we use the Word tanri which evolves from the word tengri nowdays too).
Yes it is right that Turks also worked as mercenary forces for other empires and did you know that there were also jewish turks? The Khazars.
Re: Turks & Islam at 1080
You also have a point.After all these centuries history of human races became a very comblicaded issue.I see that you are a history fun too,proven by the"Osprey"publishing images you post.I hope such images will part of the mod,because i'm a fun of realism.All human races played a specific role in world's history.We would be blind if we haven't admite this fact.History is a total amount of facts.
Re: Turks & Islam at 1080
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthoniusII
You also have a point.After all these centuries history of human races became a very comblicaded issue.I see that you are a history fun too,proven by the"Osprey"publishing images you post.I hope such images will part of the mod,because i'm a fun of realism.All human races played a specific role in world's history.We would be blind if we haven't admite this fact.History is a total amount of facts.
i agree with you as long as we respect each other everything is great :)
Re: Turks & Islam at 1080
Speaking about anthropology,
All Humans are the same race :) Our visual differences are but environmental adaptations and the only real differences are cultural in nature, not racial.
https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/...hic/atlas.html
As for Turkish culture origins,
http://www.allaboutturkey.com/origin.htm
Enjoy :)
kai katalava, efxaristo ;)
Re: Turks & Islam at 1080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suraknar
Thankyou for your help.Now i'm sure i was corect obout turkish and mongol history.Compair the mongol military unit names at the time frame we focus in the mod and modern turkish military unit names and anyone can see the languege simularities.
Re: Turks & Islam at 1080
Re: Turks & Islam at 1080
lan burdakilerinde diyom hepsi Türk nasıl Türksünüz insan Türkçe konuşur bak bana yabancı dilden bi kelime söylüyommu yapmayın be evlat sövsem dahi anlamaz bunlar
Re: Turks & Islam at 1080
sorry message not edit sorry flood
Turk's all empire
http://www.allaboutturkey.com/states.htm#gokturk
Re: Turks & Islam at 1080
