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Units That Must Be Omitted
Here is a list of units in RTW that I believe must be omitted from the game to free up space for newer units.. if any of you disagree or think I left out any units please post below
Arcani
Incendiary Pigs
Wardogs
Desert Axemen
Nile Spearmen
Pharaoh's Guard
Pharaoh's Bowmen
Desert Cavalry
Nile Cavalry
Egyptian Chariots
Egyptian Cavalry General
Egyptian Chariot General
Egyptian Chariot Archers
Onagers
Heavy Onagers
Ballistas
Repeating Ballistas
Scorpions
Druids
Screeching Women
Beserkers
Night Raiders
Head Hurlers
Head Hunting Maidens
Scythian Noble Women
Bull Warriors
Also I believe Peasants and Gladiators should be for Rebels only (for revolts)
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Re: Units That Must Be Omitted
So are you positive from historical research that non of these units existed?
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Re: Units That Must Be Omitted
In my opinion these unit need to stay:
-Ballistas
-Desert Axemen can be used as Egyptian Natives in the AOR with lowered stats
-Scorpions
-Night Raiders
-Beserkers - maybe change the name, but Germania needs to have big blood-thirsty fanatical warriors
-Bull Warriors - change the name, they represent the elite warriors of the Iberians
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Re: Units That Must Be Omitted
I got alot of it from the orgs wiki page.. and i'll post it.. but most of these units were long gone (egyptians) or rarely used (wardogs)
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Some of the units are ahistorical as well. The arcani, portrayed as in the game as heavily armoured pseudo-ninjas, are probably based on a group of agents provocateurs and spies known as areani in Roman Britain hundreds of years after the game takes place. Also, units of the Roman army such as the Urban Cohort and Praetorian Cohort are much more widely used for combat in the game than they ever were in the Roman Republic or Empire.
The Romans are not the only factions with ahistorical units. Druids, like those used in-game by the Barbarians, were in fact excused from military service in Celtic culture, being vital to the operation of organized village life.<ref>Goldsworthy, Adrian Caeser: The Life of a Colossus p. 242</ref> A totally invented unit is the British Head Hurlers, who hurl decapitated heads coated in quicklime. Severed heads were a valuable trophy in Celtic culture, and would never have been used as ammunition. The phalanx formation which the Germans employ in the game is also ahistorical, since Roman authors are emphatic that the only military formation employed by the Germani was the wedge, and the idea of pikes as Germanic weapons is contradicted by archeology as well as Tacitus (Germania Ch.6). The huge armored war elephants with howdahs, although perhaps the most spectacular unit in the game, were never used by Carthage; historic sources and depictions on coins all document small (perhaps 2.5 m/8.35 ft at the shoulder) North African Elephants with only a mahout. Also, the Bull Warriors of Spain did not exist.
The Egyptian military and culture is heavily influenced by the ancient Egypt of the New Kingdom than that of the Ptolemaic Egypt. Culture would have been of a Greek style with soldiers being identical to those of the other Diadochi and Macedonia.
Some units, such as wardogs and flaming pigs, were used on rare occasions, but not to the extent with which they can be used within the game. Also, Berserkers were not around during the time setting of the game. Berserkers were only used by the Vikings during the Viking Age, although they may represent some of the more ferocious Germanic tribes.
Furthermore the Macedonian "Royal Pikemen" are depicted wearing a shield with a lambda upon it. In fact the Spartans wore the lambda on their shield as it stands for the region Laconia where they came from. The Macedonian faction emblem also has a lambda upon it.
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Re: Units That Must Be Omitted
Ummm...Yeah it's true that heads where thropys in celtic culture BUT some british warriors whoud take a few heads with them and throw them at the enemy...
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Re: Units That Must Be Omitted
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Originally Posted by
Skull
Ummm...Yeah it's true that heads where thropys in celtic culture BUT some british warriors whoud take a few heads with them and throw them at the enemy...
We could make some of the Briton units throw a head just before charge...like the Romans with the pilums...
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Re: Units That Must Be Omitted
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Originally Posted by
Macedon1an
We could make some of the Briton units throw a head just before charge...like the Romans with the pilums...
Yeah...Good ieda...:yes:
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Re: Units That Must Be Omitted
Quick note, Onagers were used by the Romans
Nicknamed wild asses because of the way they worked
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Re: Units That Must Be Omitted
Dacian axe men yes i'm on the side of valkar:yes:
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Re: Units That Must Be Omitted
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Originally Posted by
Pharoah
Dacian axe men yes i'm on the side of valkar:yes:
See Daco-romans history of Dacia...:yes:
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Re: Units That Must Be Omitted
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Originally Posted by
Flanker
Quick note, Onagers were used by the Romans
Nicknamed wild asses because of the way they worked
Where do they fit in your description of the roman military system?
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Re: Units That Must Be Omitted
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Originally Posted by
Magneto
Where do they fit in your description of the roman military system?
Well I updated the Roman Military description in the Historian thread, and there is a small part on onagers now.
An example of onagers being mentioned would be at the siege of Masada, where they were going to be used except the defenses were too high.
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Re: Units That Must Be Omitted
i say get rid of them as they were not widely used
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Re: Units That Must Be Omitted
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Originally Posted by
ahowl11
i say get rid of them as they were not widely used
I guess. There are far more mentions of Ballisatas than onagers.
Maybe we can make them a "siege only" weapon?
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Re: Units That Must Be Omitted
thats an idea but i dont know if it would work.. check your profile at TWC
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Re: Units That Must Be Omitted
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Originally Posted by
Flanker
I guess. There are far more mentions of Ballisatas than onagers.
Maybe we can make them a "siege only" weapon?
I doubt that will work. Unlike the other siege only equipment, onagers need a special crew - so basically, even if you get them to siege only equipment (which could be quite hard, if not impossible), you could just use them if you got a normal siege weapon
in your army - its crew could shoot they own equipment empty first, then go to the onagers. But I am not certain if that works with crew of different siege equipment. So, thats not a sollution.
We could make 1 type of ballista firing greater shots with more power.
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Re: Units That Must Be Omitted
i think its easier to just get rid of them guys.. lets get it done
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Re: Units That Must Be Omitted
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Originally Posted by
Magneto
I doubt that will work. Unlike the other siege only equipment, onagers need a special crew - so basically, even if you get them to siege only equipment (which could be quite hard, if not impossible), you could just use them if you got a normal siege weapon
in your army - its crew could shoot they own equipment empty first, then go to the onagers. But I am not certain if that works with crew of different siege equipment. So, thats not a sollution.
We could make 1 type of ballista firing greater shots with more power.
That's true,
And I think the regular ballista was the most powerful. There were also Scorpio-Ballistas (which were smaller) and the torsion Oxybelles (also smaller). However I think we should only have 1 maybe 2 types of Ballista.
Ahowl's suggestion of removing Onagers is the best
If we get rid of them, maybe the AI will put some proper troops in replacement. (in RTW, there were too many stacks of onagers and light troops)
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Re: Units That Must Be Omitted
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Originally Posted by
Flanker
If we get rid of them, maybe the AI will put some proper troops in replacement. (in RTW, there were too many stacks of onagers and light troops)
I realy never fought an army with more than 1 onager, and even those were absolutely rare.
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Re: Units That Must Be Omitted
but the ai always fights with them
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Re: Units That Must Be Omitted
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Originally Posted by
Magneto
I realy never fought an army with more than 1 onager, and even those were absolutely rare.
Perhaps I'm getting confused with Medieval 2 Total War?
In any case, Ahowl is probably right in removing these units
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Re: Units That Must Be Omitted
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Re: Units That Must Be Omitted
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Originally Posted by
merry
Agree to omit them.
Hmm? I don´t understand.
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Re: Units That Must Be Omitted
Ok.:laugh4: That was pretty weird now.
I´ve implented the archer texture of carthage, but wasn´t sure it works. I make a custom battle with them, press Start Battle,
and everything went BLACK! In my whole house the electricy was gone!!! I was like "WTF!" But after a few seconds it was back again.:yes: Never was so happy about having a notebook, so I didn´t lost anything. I´m going to upload the current version of the files, just in case.
Attachment 1880
It´s called desktop, but it is a zip-archive of my current work. I´ll keep it updated.
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Re: Units That Must Be Omitted
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Originally Posted by
Magneto
Hmm? I don´t understand.
Is merry a team member? His only other post seems to flog a screencapture program.
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Re: Units That Must Be Omitted
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Originally Posted by
Ludens
Is merry a team member? His only other post seems to flog a screencapture program.
I don´t know, I´m a new team member myself. And my post was just, that I didn´t know what he meant.
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Re: Units That Must Be Omitted
For the Ballistas issue.
I say we keep the Ballista for now and remove the rest to streamline the siege artillery.
And the repeating Ballista did apparently exist
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Re: Units That Must Be Omitted
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Originally Posted by
Flanker
For the Ballistas issue.
I say we keep the Ballista for now and remove the rest to streamline the siege artillery.
And the repeating Ballista did apparently exist
Keeping Ballistas and repeating ones, remove all the rest - Done!
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Re: Units That Must Be Omitted
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Originally Posted by
Magneto
Keeping Ballistas and repeating ones, remove all the rest - Done!
Scorpions?
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Re: Units That Must Be Omitted
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Macedon1an
Scorpions?
Ah well, I can implent them back in in a minute, so they aren´t gone forever - but at least for the alpha I make that way now.
I just made a battle: Macedionian Pike Phalanx against Egypt ones:
Attachment 1881
Look at the shields - pretty small. I highly doubt that they would have been of any use in a battle.