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Re: What history book are you reading or planning to read?/ The history bookreview th
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arjos
It should be complete, I think the book went out of print...
For the record: "out of print" does not equal "out of copyright". Just because the rights-holder chooses not to sell it, does not mean everyone else is free to profit from it. IIRC copyright expires 75 years after the death of the creator, regardless of whether the creator granted the rights to someone else. (I agree that's too long, but otherwise I am all in favour of copyright. It's only fair that the creator of a work gets to say what happens with it. Without copyright the rewards of any creative work, whether money or fame, would go to the biggest thief.)
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Re: What history book are you reading or planning to read?/ The history bookreview th
Yeah, sorry my legal knowledge goes as far as "respect one another XD"...
But seems it's indeed out of print, I think the UC press made it available online :)
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Re: What history book are you reading or planning to read?/ The history bookreview th
Indeed, I had no intention of reproducing huge chunks here! I was just asking, where I could find it- but also if its available to download to an E-reader?
Edit: Just bought three new books that I think people might enjoy..." The Cambridge History of Greek and Roman Warfare. Vol I :Greece, the Hellenistic World and the Rise of Rome" Philip Sabin et al.
And " Archaic and Classical Greece: A Selection of Ancient Sources in Translation" Michael Crawford, David Whithead. Cambridge
"The Hellenistic World from Alexander to the Roman Conquest: A Selection of Ancient Sources in Translation" Michael Crawford, David Whithead. Cambridge
EDIT2: Found it for sale, at least that is what it says http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/from...3&r=1&afsrc=1&
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Re: What history book are you reading or planning to read?/ The history bookreview th
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Stark
Has anyone read Gates of Fire by Steven Pressfield? The book is fantastic, but is it realistic? Did he show Spartan society as correctly as he could with available information?
I remember one thing that particularly stuck in my mind as inaccurate is that in one part, the wife of one of the characters is supposed to have entered a gymnasium, demonstrating her fiery spirit as he implies women were not allowed inside. I then recalled from EB that one of the character traits Hellenic characters could get was the supervisor of naked women at the gymnasium. :P
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Re: What history book are you reading or planning to read?/ The history bookreview th
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Re: What history book are you reading or planning to read?/ The history bookreview th
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Antiochus
Even better, if only I could download it to an E reader! Thank you again...I think I saw it on amazon for £250- but it's always out of stock, but if its out of print that would explain it
If you go to college or a university check your library. I found the book in mine and I'm going to take it out over Christmas break!
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Re: What history book are you reading or planning to read?/ The history bookreview th
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brave Brave Sir Robin
If you go to college or a university check your library. I found the book in mine and I'm going to take it out over Christmas break!
That is a plan! I don't go that often, mostly work at home.
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Re: What history book are you reading or planning to read?/ The history bookreview th
Can anyone recommend any books which examine the Kushan Empire or China during the Iron Age?
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Re: What history book are you reading or planning to read?/ The history bookreview th
I remembered someone recommending Richard Miles' "Carthage must be destroyed" a few months ago (infact I bookmarked the amazon link :laugh4: ) and ordered it when I finished "persian fire" (by Tom Holland; nice read about persia, the greeks and some rather famous war...).
Got it on thursday and have spent quite some hours with it by now.
Despite the fact that I have to read it in english I am glad that I did. Very nice read so far (am at about half of the book at the moment).
After finishing it I will reread "Vom Reich der Franken zum Land der Deutschen", a rather detailed study about the Merovingian/Karolingian dynasties.
(By the way: reading books about Carthage - still my favourite faction in EB - doesn't help at all when you try to stay patient about the EBII release... :laugh4: )
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Re: What history book are you reading or planning to read?/ The history bookreview th
I would recommend Christian Cameron's series "Tyrant", Tyrant: Storm of Arrows" etc as being good historical novels (the second book is a bit far-fetched though) that are directly releveant to the mod. It's about an Athenian mercenary commander who moves to one of the Black Sea Colonies and fights Alexander (or his minions).
"Gates of Fire" has one clanger: at one point, he mentions washing with soap, which was invented by the Celts hundreds of years later and so the Greeks used olive oil + sand + a strigil instead.
I have quite a few books lined up to read, including the second Successors book and the first book in the two book series about the Tyrants of Syracuse.
Lastly, dare I mention "The Gods of Battle" as a book of interest to anyone who is interested in Ancient warfare, particularly cavalry, peltasts, and light troops?
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Re: What history book are you reading or planning to read?/ The history bookreview th
Just finished Tom Holland's "Rubicon" and "Millenium" about the end of the Roman Repbulic and European Dark Ages, respectively. Also read his "Persian Fire" about the invasion of Xerxes. I would thoroughly recommend all of them, great historical narratives. Even if your not escpecially interested in one of these time periods he has a writing style which thoroughly engrosses you.
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Re: What history book are you reading or planning to read?/ The history bookreview th
Thanks for that suggestion, Brennus!
I absolutely agree about Holland's writing skill ("Persian Fire" is a very fine read indeed) and therefore have to look out for those other two books. :2thumbsup:
Just finished reading "Die Merowinger und das Frankenreich" ("The Merovingians and the Frankish Empire") and need new books again.
(Have to cover about 2 hours everyday driving to/from work by train so there is quite some time to read...)
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Re: What history book are you reading or planning to read?/ The history bookreview th
Holland is a very good story-teller, but as a historian... The more you know about the topic, the more you realize he's blasting past uncertainties and contradicting sources in order to tell an epic tale. His view of events also isn't quite as original as he makes it appear.
But "Rubicon" and "Persian Fire" do make for very good reading. I don't like "Millennium" very much. I think the story's too unfocused: it skips from reign to reign, so the characters don't come to life.
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Re: What history book are you reading or planning to read?/ The history bookreview th
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Shadowwalker
Thanks for that suggestion, Brennus!
Glad to be of assistance Shadowwalker!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ludens
Holland is a very good story-teller, but as a historian... The more you know about the topic, the more you realize he's blasting past uncertainties and contradicting sources in order to tell an epic tale. His view of events also isn't quite as original as he makes it appear.
But "Rubicon" and "Persian Fire" do make for very good reading. I don't like "Millennium" very much. I think the story's too unfocused: it skips from reign to reign, so the characters don't come to life.
I agree Ludens, there are times when Holland leaps to conclusions which the evidence doesn't support. I wasn't impressed by his depiction of the Gauls in "Rubicon", he seemed to base his description of Gallic shields (Which he describes as being jewel encrusted) a bit too much on the British battersea shield, for the sake of argument it's neither a shield intended for battle nor contemporary with the Gallic wars. But on the whole his ability to bring charactes to life makes up for his occasional assumptions.
I did like "Millenium" alot although like you I think it suffered a bit from being unfocused, if you are unfamiliar, as I was with many of the Papal figures, it becomes difficult to remember who is who and how they relate to each other. I thought Holland's descriptions of the Norse and Anglo-Saxon characters was fantastic though, even if the story of Anglo-Nordic interaction seemed a bit tangential to the overall story of Christendom's evolution. I never knew Harald Hardrada was such an interesting character (in British schools he appears as little more than a supporting character to the drama played out between Harold Godwinson and William of Normandy).
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Re: What history book are you reading or planning to read?/ The history bookreview th
hardraada the kievan as quite an amazing story he went everywhere in europe and ended up king of the norgés and got many kingdoms to bow to him as vassals including the english wich had promissed him the kingship once their old king died
also the batle he lost he was clearly outnumbered and even then the english had to resort to cunning to take the bridge wich was defended by 1 single warrior wich was cutting them to pieces
had hardraada fighted against the normans i think he would have won i mean he knew the normans very well he participated in the conquest of sicily and his warriors aslong as rested and fully equiped where the best heavy infantry in europe
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Re: What history book are you reading or planning to read?/ The history bookreview th
I'm momentarily occupied with some Celtic affairs, for some reasons I had always deep sympathy for them:
"The Picts, A History" by Tim Clarkson, rev. ed. 2010: A short introduction to Pictish history. I'm not able to judge the quality of the book in deep, but for me the author has a scientific method and good argmuents, I like it.
"Irish Battles: A Military History of Ireland" by G.A. Hayes-McCoy, 1969: ranges from Clontarf 1014 to Arklow 1798, just started reading, seems to be a nice book which offers also some background informations.
and I'm reading a book which is not a typical history:
"A History of Violence" by Steven Pinker ( I read the German translation "Gewalt: eine neue Geschichte der Menschheit", 2011): quite interesting, because some common and also scientifical (mis)conceptions are dealed with. For the politically correct person some theses of the book might be problematic. I'm not through the book and I'm not sure wether I buy all the author wants to sell us, but it is worth reading. For me it is especially interesting cause I studied also criminology. One problem of the book is the reliability of the data used (data often from very old times), which come mostly from other scolars.
A few days ago I once read again some Islandic sagas and immediatly had to think of Pinker because the frequent murdering in the sagas without any srupulosity fits well to Pinkers data and assumptions.
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Re: What history book are you reading or planning to read?/ The history bookreview th
Just finished Geoff Blainey's woolly History of Christianity, a really lame bit of halfbaked rubbish.
Also finished Robin Lane Fox's Travelling Heroes, a tiny bit wishy washy, more like a Robert Graves bit of imagination than history. Fox's orst book I'd say, still not bad, but not up to his usual high standard.
Going back to a Robert Graves novel I Claudius, pretty much counts as history;)
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Re: What history book are you reading or planning to read?/ The history bookreview th
I am reading Men of Waterloo which i cant find :sweatdrop: Alexander The Great Failure by John D. Granger, and Ancient Rome a New History by David Potter.:book2:
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Re: What history book are you reading or planning to read?/ The history bookreview th
Well I finished the trilogy on Byzantium by J.J Norwich (I posted the book names on page 3 or 4) and can recommend all 3, all were wonderful. I'm on the final pages now of Rubicon and that is also brilliant and tonight or tomorrow will be starting Persian Fire.
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Re: What history book are you reading or planning to read?/ The history bookreview th
I'm currently researching for a thesis on Bactria, so I am reading a LOT of historical works at the moment.
Recently i've read From Sardis to Samarkhand, which is a great introduction into more modern studies of Hellenic culture post-Alexander and the Seleucid Empire. Since 1994 however, a lot of work has been done on the subject and so a few elements are outdated.
I've read 5 out of 10 volumes of Fouilles D'Ai Khanoum, which are the archaeological reports of the French team that excavated Ai Khanoum (i.e Alexandria-on-the-Oxus). It's very dry, but it is absolutely packed with information, analysis, drawings and photos, floor plans and maps.
At the moment I'm looking to get hold of the second half of the Ai Khanoum volumes. Unfortunately, there are very few books on Bactria that are approachable and offer and overview of the subject, let alone with the kind of prose that Tom Holland's books can offer. Hopefully that will change in the future.
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Re: What history book are you reading or planning to read?/ The history bookreview th
I recently had the displeasure to read "The Rise and Fall of Ancient Egypt" by Toby Wilkinson, a popular history book which was much lauded in the general press. I read it because I knew little about Ancient Egyptian history in detail and had the (ultimately vain) hope that perhaps here was a popular history book that managed to marry engaging writing with cutting-edge historical analysis. The author, after all, is an Egyptologist and Fellow at Cambridge.
Sadly, I was mistaken. It is apparently impossible for any author in the popular history genre, even an academic one like Wilkinson, to write a good book that at the same time deals with historical issues academically. Wilkinson's offering was chock full of gross oversimplifications (the issue of Ancient Egyptian chronology, for example), hapless generalizations (decline and prosperity are presented in an archaic duality of oriental decadence and youthful vigor), glossed-over debates (Akhenaten's reign is a good example, as is most of the Old Kingdom's history, alongside the entire issue of the Hyksos, the Bronze Age Collapse, or the Third Intermediate Period), selective interpretations of primary source material (most pharaonic reigns, as well as wars, are only interpreted according to reliefs on royal tombs, i.e., by taking pharaonic propaganda at face value), and complete omissions (no mention whatsoever about the fascinating relationship between Egypt and the Jews, and its implication for the latter's ethnogenesis). Almost every page had something to criticize. I myself was educated in modern history, with no formal introduction to ancient history whatsoever, and even I was able to see all of this!
Not only was the book marred by this, but it was also deeply flawed by transparent attempts to make Ancient Egyptian history relevant to a modern layman reader, alongside clumsy, ham-fisted attempts at analyzing Egypt's long-term legacy (the author attempted to nuance his history with a cliched bit on the "dark side" of Egypt, i.e. the absolute nature of pharaonic power; Wilkinson's claim, meanwhile, that Egypt "invented the nation-state," is preposterous).
I was thus deeply disappointed by the book. I was left wondering how a prominent academic could write something this bad. Perhaps it's the fact that his expertise seems to lie in Egyptian architectural history, rather than political or social? Maybe. But whatever the reason, "The Rise and Fall of Ancient Egypt" does not manage to escape the typical pitfalls of popular history: to write something that appeals to the general public apparently means writing something that obscures major issues and thus relegates the dynamism of our past to narratives of reigns, monuments, and wars. Much like Tom Holland or John Julius Norwich, and many other popular historians, Wilkinson merely presents a reworked and retold version of traditional histories that are almost as old as the subject itself. The only thing that makes Wilkinson a trifle better than a Holland or a Norwich is that he is slightly less affected by the fetish the latter two seem to have for battles, wars, and "great deeds." Wilkinson, at least, leaves some space to write about the lives of ordinary Ancient Egyptians, even if he does spend half a chapter on a Hollywoodesque description of the invasion of the Sea Peoples. If this is what it takes to popularize history, then the result is that our past is obfuscated rather than illuminated.
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Re: What history book are you reading or planning to read?/ The history bookreview th
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Wizard
I recently had the displeasure to read "The Rise and Fall of Ancient Egypt" by Toby Wilkinson, a popular history book which was much lauded in the general press. I read it because I knew little about Ancient Egyptian history in detail and had the (ultimately vain) hope that perhaps here was a popular history book that managed to marry engaging writing with cutting-edge historical analysis. The author, after all, is an Egyptologist and Fellow at Cambridge.
Sadly, I was mistaken. It is apparently impossible for any author in the popular history genre, even an academic one like Wilkinson, to write a good book that at the same time deals with historical issues academically. Wilkinson's offering was chock full of gross oversimplifications (the issue of Ancient Egyptian chronology, for example), hapless generalizations (decline and prosperity are presented in an archaic duality of oriental decadence and youthful vigor), glossed-over debates (Akhenaten's reign is a good example, as is most of the Old Kingdom's history, alongside the entire issue of the Hyksos, the Bronze Age Collapse, or the Third Intermediate Period), selective interpretations of primary source material (most pharaonic reigns, as well as wars, are only interpreted according to reliefs on royal tombs, i.e., by taking pharaonic propaganda at face value), and complete omissions (no mention whatsoever about the fascinating relationship between Egypt and the Jews, and its implication for the latter's ethnogenesis). Almost every page had something to criticize. I myself was educated in modern history, with no formal introduction to ancient history whatsoever, and even I was able to see all of this!
Not only was the book marred by this, but it was also deeply flawed by transparent attempts to make Ancient Egyptian history relevant to a modern layman reader, alongside clumsy, ham-fisted attempts at analyzing Egypt's long-term legacy (the author attempted to nuance his history with a cliched bit on the "dark side" of Egypt, i.e. the absolute nature of pharaonic power; Wilkinson's claim, meanwhile, that Egypt "invented the nation-state," is preposterous).
I was thus deeply disappointed by the book. I was left wondering how a prominent academic could write something this bad. Perhaps it's the fact that his expertise seems to lie in Egyptian architectural history, rather than political or social? Maybe. But whatever the reason, "The Rise and Fall of Ancient Egypt" does not manage to escape the typical pitfalls of popular history: to write something that appeals to the general public apparently means writing something that obscures major issues and thus relegates the dynamism of our past to narratives of reigns, monuments, and wars. Much like Tom Holland or John Julius Norwich, and many other popular historians, Wilkinson merely presents a reworked and retold version of traditional histories that are almost as old as the subject itself. The only thing that makes Wilkinson a trifle better than a Holland or a Norwich is that he is slightly less affected by the fetish the latter two seem to have for battles, wars, and "great deeds." Wilkinson, at least, leaves some space to write about the lives of ordinary Ancient Egyptians, even if he does spend half a chapter on a Hollywoodesque description of the invasion of the Sea Peoples. If this is what it takes to popularize history, then the result is that our past is obfuscated rather than illuminated.
Woha great to see you post old timer! Sorry to hear about your bad reading experience. Thanks for the warning though!
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Re: What history book are you reading or planning to read?/ The history bookreview th
I sacrificed half an hour of sleep to write that post, after I chanced on this thread while looking for news on this mod ~;)
If anything Wilkinson's book made me realize I can't read popular history anymore. I want to know about the (ancient) past and hear about it via the latest developments in the field, not read a reconfigured version of outdated traditional narratives (which is what most popular history is).
A much better book, from the point of view of historical accuracy and good analysis, is "The Beginnings of Rome: Italy and Rome from the Bronze Age to the Punic Wars (c. 1000-264 BC)" by Tim Cornell. It's extremely well-written, engaging, and unlike popular history does not avoid any of the debates or difficulties of the historical profession. It makes Rome's archaic history come alive, instead of reducing it to a caricature.
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Re: What history book are you reading or planning to read?/ The history bookreview th
Music in ancient Rome and Greece
Music in ancient Rome and Greece is a book written by John Landels, during his retirement. He was professor in classics who lectured at both the university of Reading and Hull and what is noticeable immediately his no-nonsense approach, yet at the same time detailed and clear concise and a joy to read.
Even though he is a ‘classicist’ his knowledge and understanding of the subject matter of music is rather remarkable and even from an ethnomusicological point of view it makes sense. Then again as a classicist you are trying to understand another culture and given the amount of understanding Prof. Landels has in the subject adding in some musicology shouldn’t be too difficulty, more on that later.
At the very start of the book he puts forward the etymology of the term ethnomusicology into context from what I believe ethnomusicology to be, “the study of music in a cultural or ethnic context”. Already on the first page he is talking about the music and its uses in ancient Greece and later on in the book, that of ancient Rome and what the Romans did, like borrowing the Greek inventions and then ‘changing it’ to improve it and make it their own, or in case of music, to sit back and enjoy. However, he certainly was not disparaging towards the Roman culture, in regards to their music.
He made clear in the preface, yes in Roman culture music wasn’t such a major thing like it was with the Greeks, yet it did come with its own inventions of instruments, mainly from modern day Tuscany or even Greece for that matter. Therefore, naturally he has a lot more to say for Greece. Though what he has done and that is given Rome ‘fair treatment’ He hasn’t glossed over it with a few disparaging sentences, but done exactly the same as with Greece albeit not in such a large quantity as previously explained as previous authors and scholars have done before him.
In ancient times culture and music go hand in hand, just like they do today and musicians get up to various antics, which generally involve drinking. What I like about this book and that is some rather amusing anecdotes of musicians getting drunk ‘under the table’ and put on the back of a wagon and carted home. Although I can safely say I have never been in that situation myself, I can still relate to it after taking drunken friends home after a gig.
Instruments and inventions of the ancient world, absolutely fascinating sections (Greece and Rome), Instruments, he demonstrates a great knowledge on the instruments and the physicality of how they work. He explains how the instruments worked and with technical drawings and illustrations, which again are clear, concise and easily understandable. He also gives a basic introduction on the instruments of the period; though he covers them in greater detail later on in the book. But what is great is that the laws of physics have never changed and poses questions where would be now musically had the Western Roman Empire not fallen?
The Greeks had several instruments some of which were really complex and in many respects, with a certain amount of naivety (from a modern perspective) ahead of their time. The inventors and developers these fine examples of Greek engineering and creativity he refers to his other book called “Engineering of the Ancient World”.
To most musical cultures tuning and scales are important. It is widely document that the ancient Greek philosopher, and mathematician “Pythagoras” was one of the pioneers behind the development the diatonic scale by figuring out that if you stop a piece of string in the middle (in half) and each will side will sound an octave above that of the full length and variations on theory regarding fourths and fifths.
The author explores this in large detail the work of Pythagoras and his chord, but also Aristoxenos, and many other mathematicians and theorists of the time. He goes on to explain about the chords and scales used. He goes into great detail and it is fascinating to read about what the scales and chords which were used by the ancient Greeks and how they were devised.
The author explains how Vitruvius used this knowledge effectively when it came to designing and building new stadiums. What was known by Vitruvius two thousand year ago is just as important today as it was then.
John Landels’ final section(s) is notation and surviving scores of both ancient Greece and Rome and from an ethnomusicological point of view, certainly as an undergraduate when learning about music from cultures, for me one of the most important perspectives is that of having a base point of understanding, usually one’s own culture and comfort zone. When using pitches of instruments and note values and rhythms he has transcribed into standard western notation; which as a classically trained musician, is absolutely fantastic in trying to understand the music of these cultures.
From music to engineering and the mathematics and science behind it; it is a fantastic read for a university student studying music or a science as there is plenty of information in this book that is certainly useful. His method of delivering information is clear and detailed and keeps the reader interested. It tells you everything you need to know, and even contains transcribed surviving music of the ancient Romans and Greeks.
For a price of £23.74 paperback at Amazon it is well worth the price. It is absolute gold dust, especially if you have an interest in the music and the ancient world or a student studying anything from science to music.
Clear, Detailed and Concise!
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Re: What history book are you reading or planning to read?/ The history bookreview th
I'm currently working through quite a number of historiographical works for my thesis (of which Livy is the focus). Of late the major ones that I'm looking at:
T. P. Wiseman's classic Clio's Cosmetics. His theory (now commonly accepted) is that rhetoric was a more important basis for the writing of history than 'factual record'. I agree with the overall theory (and it is easily demonstratable with reference to Livy alone), but in terms of the details of his work I find myself constantly at odds with him. That's not really surprising for something that was first published more than 3 decades ago, however. Anyone interested in historiography and the basis for the writing of history should read this.
Another classic that I'm currently working through is John Marincola's Authority and Tradition in Ancient Historiography. He focusses on the importance of sight (witnessing events) over sound (researching written authorities). The theory once again is sound and Marincola, as I suspected, is much better when it comes to discussion of the Greek historiographical part, and it is interesting to view the ways in which we are lead to believe an author when he tells the audience something. The only major criticism that I have is his attempt to find a clear continuum running from Herodotus through to Livy and beyond, which I think just devalues the real innovations in Roman historiography and its focus on research in non-contemporary history.
Mary Jaeger's Livy's Written Rome is a work that will pretty much only appeal to specialists. It examines Livy's use of the 'space' of Rome, and the way in which height, distance and landmarks of the city are all used by Livy to guide readings of certain passages. It is really interesting when you get down to it and the way that Jaeger tackles some of the toughest sections of Livy is admirable alone.
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Re: What history book are you reading or planning to read?/ The history bookreview th
Finally getting around to reading From Samarkhand to Sardis. So far it has been worth the wait.
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Re: What history book are you reading or planning to read?/ The history bookreview th
Just making my way through the last 50 pages or so of Millennium by Tom Holland, then I'm starting "Carthage must be Destroyed" by an author I forget. Not enjoying Millennium as much as Persian Fire and Rubicon but that's because medieval history doesn't do it for me like ancient history does.
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Re: What history book are you reading or planning to read?/ The history bookreview th
Quote:
Originally Posted by
I_damian
Just making my way through the last 50 pages or so of Millennium by Tom Holland, then I'm starting "Carthage must be Destroyed" by an author I forget. Not enjoying Millennium as much as Persian Fire and Rubicon but that's because medieval history doesn't do it for me like ancient history does.
Richard Miles wrote that one.
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Re: What history book are you reading or planning to read?/ The history bookreview th
Yeah that sounds about right. I could have just looked at the Amazon site I bought it off as I was typing it but... you know... laziness.
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Re: What history book are you reading or planning to read?/ The history bookreview th
sorry if this thread is to old but does anyone know of a good book to read about the teutons?