TW games - the future

Look into the crystal Total War ball of epic games - what will the future hold, my dears? :freak:


Frankenstein aside (:tongue:), Total War is at a little crossroad, at least, with regards to its future. The new Total War historical is due in about 6-9 with an announcement, so expect it somewhere in 2018, around a year or so at the very least until an alpha or beta comes out. They're hard at work over it, that's pretty clear, but the question is what kind of a timeframe will it be.

And this is not necessarily about the next TW game - but what will happen after this historical title. If the next title comes along, by the time it will be released in 2018, with the development coming full circle a year or so later, Total War will celebrate 20 years of existence. 20 years. That's a very long time in the gaming industry. With Shogun released back in 1999/2000, and with Medieval following suit in 2002, Total War has been around for a considerable period of time. :book:


For the most part, TW has remained the same TBS we know and love for the past 20 almost years. And it's worked wonders every time. Rome 2 and Warhammer have shattered sales records. In fact, almost every Total War game has shattered sales records when it came out - particularly Rome, Empire and Rome 2.

So gentlemen, take your best guesses - where is TW headed in the future? A different timeframe? A different gameplay? A Total Overhaul? :hat:

Part of me thinks that they are going to do Empire 2, but Empire had the current engine if I recall correctly so Im not sure what the point would be. I would love them to do a Medieval 3 but I recall them saying that there would be no third titles in a series so thats a bummer. So basically, I have no idea. Perhaps they might do a late medieval/early Renaissance game?

No more "revolution-evolution", then?

Empire 2 technically is the evolution - Empire was the initial revolution. Same with Rome 2 as well. The original was the revolution, the sequel was a revolution-evolution.

And probably Empire 2 or something Victorian is next.

There's no way to know what's next.

'revolution-evolution' referred to the current development stage of the game engine and game release schedule. The engine was initially released as a game and then re-released again as another game with some improvements. This happened with STW -> MTW and RTW -> M2TW, etc, etc...

As well as this there were always expansions and later "downloadable content" once the games moved to the steam platform.

Aside from fantasy settings, there are only so many historical time frames which will work and which will appeal to the main target audience - i.e. kids in North America and Europe.

Without a complete redesign, essentially meaning the game is no longer "total war" in the true sense, more modern settings won't be feasible.

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Without a complete redesign, essentially meaning the game is no longer "total war" in the true sense, more modern settings won't be feasible.

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My sentiments, exactly! My belief is that CA got into fantasy because feudal Japan has been done twice...Medieval Europe twice...and the Roman Empire twice. Going further back in time (the warlord era of China, or the rise of Greece, for example) probably doesn't have enough mass appeal like fantasy. That doesn't leave much to do except move forward in time, and that would require a completely new game engine at the very least:shrug:

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Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai

Going further back in time (the warlord era of China, or the rise of Greece, for example) probably doesn't have enough mass appeal like fantasy.

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The age of the warring states (China) was always high on the wish list at forums like this one for years, probably since STW1. It was the ideal fit to the game engine (as was Shogun), but yes without mass appeal it was never going to happen.

MTW1 was actually the first "mass appeal" game. Shogun was quite a daring move, picking an era and theatre of warfare which would be practically unknown in 'west' was always risky. MTW took the winning formula, but retreated back to "safe territory". It also went for an "all of Europe" (+ bits of middle east/north Africa) approach (and was originally to be called "Crusader : Total War") instead of focusing on a specific time frame, local conflict or civil war. Castles, Knights and archers, etc are always the safer option.

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Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai

That doesn't leave much to do except move forward in time, and that would require a completely new game engine at the very least:shrug:

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There are already plenty of games franchises offering modern warfare. Fantasy such as warhammer, is pretty much all that is left, but it was probably always going to be more of a hit with warhammer fans rather than total war fans. The .org especially was always going to lose out on that one.

Clearly, no way to know what's next.

However, we can take an introspective look at Total War, how it shapes up after almost 20 years of existence. A lot of games have been released, a lot of gamers love TW, and their new game has to be some kind of revolution-evolution stepping stone that will put it back into the limelight for the more hardcore players. You don't have to simplify TW - to be honest I do miss the micromanagement of the older TW games, given that MTW is one of my / my favourite games - to appeal it to a wide ranging demographic of players. You just have to evolve it/reinvent it to make sure it stays fresh and super engaging for everyone who wants to play Total War.

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You just have to evolve it/reinvent it to make sure it stays fresh and super engaging for everyone who wants to play Total War

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Yes, but what time era, and which genre...historical or fantasy?

Could it go the Civ route and be pan-era in scope? Maybe just Europe from Greece through to Empire (TW). Kind of whacky thought, but trying to think outside the box (or era).

Biblical Chariot Era needs to be given a mention .

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Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai

Yes, but what time era, and which genre...historical or fantasy?

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It's pretty clear they're going the fantasy way as well, with a separate development team. So technically, both!

As for historical, there's plenty of other places you can explore. Let's keep in mind Shogun was very limited in appeal and look where it got us. :yes:

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As for historical, there's plenty of other places you can explore. Let's keep in mind Shogun was very limited in appeal and look where it got us.

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Shogun was CA's Star Trek...going where no one had gone before. So yes, it drew a lot of gamers in. But...that era's been done twice, as has several of the most popular military history times. CA has already stated it won't go for the trifecta in any era (one has to wonder how set in stone that statement is:inquisitive:).

As to "plenty of other places"...where would that be? I could see one or two areas...maybe, but plenty? I don't see it.

Plenty? Sure there's plenty.

Victorian TW
Some sort of TW set in Asia (not Japan) - perhaps the Iranian / Persian empires and the wars around it?
Empire 2 - or something similar with empires and merchants
Dark Ages TW (Attila is Roman-ish, same goes for Charlemagne - I'm referring to 750-1000 AD)
Post-Renaissance TW (after 1550 - until 1700)
a more ancient setting - 400-500BC?
a different setting geographically - African TW? African Empires, like the Akshumite kingdom?

Floating different ideas here, but there's plenty of places to go to and things to explore.

All of those are what I would term "niche" eras of warfare. How many of TW's fanbase would even know anything about them, or be remotely interested? I've been a TW player since the beginning, and the only possible time period that interests me is the feudal era of China. I know little, or care even less, about the remainder of what you mentioned. That's just me, of course.:shrug:

I would guess the move to Warhammer was calculated to grab the already huge existing fanbase of Warhammer 40k. Modern warfare (where there is an immense fanbase) is out of the question, IMHO, without a complete overhaul including a new game engine. So that leaves more of the fantasy genre:shrug:

A Ancient: TW centered around the Middle East starting around 1000 BC would be neat, or even earlier.

Personally I guess we will see sooner or later a Lord of the Rings:TW. The demand is there as shown by able modders and fierce fans.

OA

I think the era of Age of Empires 1 would be an interesting timeframe. The Hittites and Egyptians being the main super-powers, with some nations just rising into prominence, ie. Assyria, Phoenicia, etc. At least then chariots would be a realistic unit. :grin3:

I'm not sure how well this era would be received by the masses, but I know some people would like it. And it may get some of the AoE players. :shrug:

I think we need to see a map shift. Other than japan, all we have really seen is Europe. I would like to see China during the three kingdoms era myself.

That's true, which is why I'd be interested in other time periods and perhaps a bigger scope like Empire TW.

Even though I do want a Medieval 3. :grin2:

The suggestion that they won't do a "third edition" of any period doesn't really hold up - Charlemagne already takes place in roughly the same period as Viking Invasion. Attila is halfway between being Rome 3 and Barbarian Invasion 2.

Likely we'll see a Renaissance to Early Modern game next - so you start with knights and longbows, end with rifles. Something between, say, 1500 and 1820.

A Classical Total War that starts circa the Perisan Wars or just before and goes up to the fall of Carthage with a later expansion is another candidate.

Having said that, DLC offerings for both Attila and Warhammer have been disappointing.

They will probably do third editions, just not now, at least for M3TW.

They are doing a totally new era.

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Originally Posted by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus

Likely we'll see a Renaissance to Early Modern game next - so you start with knights and longbows, end with rifles. Something between, say, 1500 and 1820.

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I dont think that it would go so far. Perhaps early gunpowder. Would love to see a true European version of guns versus swords conflict in Total War.

Most likely that will be the next era for the historical TW title that's coming up. :yes:

Game of Thrones or GoT:TW is also in my humble opinion almost certain in the long run. Warhammer has been an overall great addition to the series and shown finance guys like me that the risk-weighted margins and returns are there if the demands of the various counterparts are not too high. As I stated before the great fans and modders of this series have demostrated beyond that Lotr:TW plus DLC and expansions into various realms and ages would sell very well.

Overall I would love the addition of more topical campaigns with detailed regional maps for any game. Lots of good memories from Viking Invasions to Carolus Magnus in Attila. Combined with four seasons to twelve months they offer the most intense role-playing feeling with the best scaling.

OA

Indeed, now that I think of it, it is very much possible that a Game of Thrones TW will be made, given that Warhammer was such a massive sales hit for CA.

I read this thread a week and a half ago and have been thinking about it since then. I believe in all likelihood if they are going to make the next title a historical title, it will be either a rehash of Empire...or the Far East, Three Kingdoms perhaps?

Neither one really interests me though. Mildly more than Warhammer or another fantasy title.

Thing is, a remake of Empire TW might be on the cards, but they need to think this carefully because while Medieval, Shogun and Rome were serious fan favourites, Empire doesn't have the same base to fall upon.

Shogun is a cult classic -> Shogun 2.

Medieval TW is a masterpiece -> Medieval 2.

Rome TW made TW mainstream -> Rome 2.

Whatever they choose to make ...
they should use the Battlefield coding from the original MTW & improve on it if they still can or know how too .
As all other releases that followed the AI went downhill ...

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Originally Posted by edyzmedieval

Thing is, a remake of Empire TW might be on the cards, but they need to think this carefully because while Medieval, Shogun and Rome were serious fan favourites, Empire doesn't have the same base to fall upon.

Shogun is a cult classic -> Shogun 2.

Medieval TW is a masterpiece -> Medieval 2.

Rome TW made TW mainstream -> Rome 2.

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Yes, I quite agree, but I don't believe they will give it proper consideration. Sega has engineered a toxic environment that kills off this kind of innovation they absolutely need to resolve the glaring problems in the original title.
This is why I don't have much interest. All we'll likely get is "better" graphics and a rehash of Rome 2's campaign province development. I feel like that period is such a large bite to chew that they cannot do it justice. Well, at least based upon their history. I'm also not so sure it doesn't have a fan base now. It seemed to enjoy a renaissance around the time Rome 2 was being developed.

As for a Three Kingdoms game...eh, call me racist but there is no interest by me in that area of the world. :no: For a westerner it will feel like a rehash of Japanese culture. But I could see potential to be a money maker in Asia.


P.S. Yes, I looked into Empire popularity. By the numbers it's a bit surprising: http://steamspy.com/dev/Creative+Assembly

Not entirely surprising by the number - Empire TW has surpassed all sales records when it first launched. :yes:

A bit surprised about Attila though...

Amazingly Empire is holding its own against Shogun 2 as far as old TW titles still commonly being played: http://steamcharts.com/search/?q=total+war

I imagine it's just the sheer amount of content found in Empire. I think it appeals to the casual gamer more, the ones who aren't so loud and who don't join forums to complain. :laugh4:

Even though I'm still more of a "Rome 1 + mods" kind of guy, since I have four kids now I generally gravitate to playing vanilla Shogun 2 or Rome II just because I have much less leisure time for games like this. Shogun 2 if I want a focused campaign I can finish in a few months. And Rome II if I want to just sandbox around and do what if's, like horse only armies from the East, or migrating some Hellenists into Western Europe.
I'm looking forward to playing one of the Total War titles with my five year old. He's reading now, so I can see starting a co-op campaign with him in a couple of years.

I have been considering buying a couple copies of Attila now that the Winter Steam sale is going, but I'm not sure I'll play it much. I've watched YouTube "let's play" videos but just can't decide. Is there a compelling reason to purchase Attila and the Charlemagne campaign?
I'm in the midst of Shogun 2 and want to start a new Rome II campaign after that with a nomad faction, or maybe the Armenians. I just have too much content to go through as it is.
I bought the entire "Theatre of War" series last week, as I was pining for some Close Combat to play. Kursk looks very promising and I could see me setting up a couple mobile workstations for some parties with some of my mates.
/Thread Drift
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Back to the thread topic. I guess I'm sort of hoping for an Empire re-hash. I just hope they would give it all the underpinnings needed for a grand strategy to represent such a time period and not leave another sloppy mess. And I agree with Phillipus. Maybe at least start earlier, from the first 30 years war, up to the Victorian Period?

I think that's a big job though, so I wouldn't mind seeing them try a more focused campaign title, much like Napoleon was, but instead focused on WWI. It would require some innovation to properly represent battles for emerging air warfare, and then armor and artillery...but it has a lot of potential. Fleshing out more intrigue via agents and diplomacy, public opinion affects on unrest, etc.
This could give their franchise the "freshness" I think they have been missing for the last several years. But I'm not sure that would really be "Total War" any longer...

I'm one of those who really enjoyed Attila. I really really like the game, and the DLC packs with the Empires of Sand is an absolute joy. I love how it's polished and it works well, and you can have a lot of fun with it because of the multitude of options you get from a strategic and tactical point of view, particularly if you play the Eastern Romans... or even the crumbling Western Roman Empire.

So from my part - go for it. And don't forget the Empires of Sand. :yes:

//

As for the Empire re-hash, I'm definitely rooting for one, because I love the sheer scale of the game. Having mercantile empires is a lot of fun, and despite me wishing for more unique units, you can't really complain once you purchase all of the DLC packs that add a multitude of extra content to the game. I do understand that not many people enjoy the DLC model, but it worked well for Empire.

I don't see CA making a Game Of Thrones game. They'd have to get the rights from Martin and whoever else(HBO?). To my knowledge they have never done this before Warhammer. They always kept to subjects that they don't need to get rights to nor worry about their version of the history/back ground conflicting with what is considered proper. I'd like to see one but on the other hand I'd hate to see CA do it because they would screw up the lore and the book's historical aspect. CA is not very historically accurate IMO at times. They take too many liberties with their cheap known knowledge. Then again maybe they are taking a different path for a while? I'd like to see a Mongols type game but I don't hold up a lot of hope about that. I don't think there is enough interest there from the fans. Whatever it is they do next I hope they don't screw it up like they tend to do at times.

They had to acquire rights for Warhammer, and Warhammer's IP is very closely guarded, so perhaps obtaining the rights for Game of Thrones, which is also a super successful TV series, wouldn't be very complicated to do so.

And plus - there are GoT mods already. So there is interest.

Having well surpassed 1000 hours in Rome 2 I think we need a drastic change in setting. I don't like the Game of Thrones total war ideal. That would be too much like selling out in my opinion. Give me china or even Africa/South Americas.

Well... technically a Victorian TW would DEFINITELY cover Africa and Asia, and some parts of South America.

Maybe they should release an American Civil War Total War so that every southern male in the US will want it. I think Age of Empires ultimately flopped because it decided to avoid this era of history.

Age of Empires 2, more than 17 years after it has been released, is currently in development still and has had about 2 new expansion packs released. And it's selling quite well on Steam. :yes:

I love age of empires

A lot of us do. :yes:

Hence why it's stlll so popular!

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Originally Posted by edyzmedieval

They had to acquire rights for Warhammer, and Warhammer's IP is very closely guarded, so perhaps obtaining the rights for Game of Thrones, which is also a super successful TV series, wouldn't be very complicated to do so.

And plus - there are GoT mods already. So there is interest.

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Actually they didn't, Sega did. It's how video game rights for other works are handled more and more these days. A publisher gets the universal rights to video games based on an IP. Like WB interactive has with DC and Tolkien. Sega has the monopoly* on Gamesworkshop IP's.



*Barring any pre-existing licensing contracts naturally.

Ah yes, of course, it's SEGA taking care of it at a group level. SEGA bought it, CA implemented it, in close connection with the owners of the IP.

I'd like to see one of:
Three Kingdoms China
Neo-Babylon/Rise of Achaemenid Persia
Wars of the Roses

I know I say it every time but I really hope they rework the Strategic map to allow meaningful use of Allied Reinforcements, Retreats & frankly to look less like Dx7

Reinforcements are now properly handled, at least you can have double armies now.

I mean you can get them sure but not with anything like the frequency you used to in Shogun 1/Med 1 where it was fairly common to have allies on a neighbouring province vs pretty rare to have allies within range of your army in post-Rome engine.

Third Age mod actually had Allied reinforcements pretty often but that was clearly to do with the factions having very clearly defined allegiances (Good, Bad & Dwarves) that don't show up in main games.

Ugh, more of this Warhammer crap.

Warhammer makes a lot of capital for the TW franchise, hence why they are so eager to continue the Warhammer saga. Plus they acquired the IP and they have to follow the partnership.

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Originally Posted by edyzmedieval

Warhammer makes a lot of capital for the TW franchise, hence why they are so eager to continue the Warhammer saga. Plus they acquired the IP and they have to follow the partnership.

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I can see why they're doing it. It's part of a disappointing pattern of sticking with safe choices over many years. The last really interesting project was Empire in 2009, though S2 made up for the fact that it was only a reiteration on an old formula by being very polished.

I just want even the slightest hint about what the next historical TW will be. Thats all.

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Originally Posted by Hooahguy

I just want even the slightest hint about what the next historical TW will be. Thats all.

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End of 2017 you'll probably get the reveal.

Is anyone else completely disappointed in another Warhammer game? Honestly it feels like a major bit of disrespect to their main fan base which is those of us who want historical combat. I purchased Warhammer to give it a go and honestly I found it exceedingly boring. That and the fact that greenskin armies can move half the map in one turn while dwarves cannot move leaving them incredibly vulnerable.

Anyway...... new Warhammer.... completely unimpressed

Based on the background on the count-down screen, I was rather expecting a Warhammer expansion. I was surprised to see a sequel to Warhammer announced within a year of the first one's release. They must have made a tonne of money on that one. I hope they make another tonne of money on the sequel. May they milk the Warhammer fans as much as possible.

The cynical part of me can't help noticing that of the two seperate Total War dev teams, the fantasy team works quite a bit faster than the historical team. :bow:

Still, the absence of the next historical game doesn't worry me yet. Attila, Rome and Shogun 2 still have such high replay value for me that I'm not lacking anything. I recently started an Attila grand campaign as the Western Roman Empire so I should be good for the rest of the year.

I thought its pretty well known that there are going to be 3 Warhammer TWs?

3 of them? I had no idea.

Having a Warhammer expansion or a new game was totally expected though - especially with the huge popularity of it. Brought a lot of new players for TW.

Yup, only 3 Warhammer titles. So I guess the only thing we historical title fans can do is patiently wait. Hopefully we will see an announcement by the end of the year.

I'm pretty sure they will do something else other than Warhammer.

Oh for sure, as I recall the license for Warhammer only lasts 3 games so the future belongs to the historical games. Now of course the debate is what that historical era will be since CA said it wont be an era they have done before.

But I'm sure they will do some other fantasy title as well...

So this doesn't give anything away but seems they are actively working on it whatever it is & its not a sequel
https://www.totalwar.com/blog/quick-...orical-titles/

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We have had many questions on when our next historical title is going to be available, so we thought we would try to clear up any confusion and give you some information on what our historical teams have been up to these past few months.

We’ve already spoken a bit (as much as we can at this stage!) about our next historical tent pole, but wanted to clarify that we’re looking at a number of ways of bring a variety of historical content out over the coming months and years, rather than focusing on one singular project. That’s not to say these projects are a distraction to the tent pole’s development, with the Historical sub-teams split out exactly as the Historical and WARHAMMER teams are.

Specifically, we have recently been looking at ways in which we might get back to historical content before we release the next major historical Total War, in particular thinking about additional content or standalones for some of our more recent historical titles. Jack Lusted and veteran team members from the ROME II and ATTILA teams have formed a new Total War team to investigate further, and we’re excited to share news of their intentions as soon as we’re able.

The important thing to note is that whilst our developers can switch between projects based on workloads, our historical and fantasy teams are separate and managed separately, meaning whether it’s an historical or fantasy project we can give each title the attention it requires.

Production for our next historical major release is well underway, as mentioned before, with the team working on all areas of the game at this stage; the game design is locked and asset creation fully underway. We have seen some particularly jaw-dropping character and campaign map concepts that have really pushed the strong visual design of this release.

We have also been collaborating with our first historical advisor, pre-eminent in his field and already bringing that world-leading expertise to bear on our designs and extensive research so far – don’t forget, it’s an era that we haven’t tackled yet, so we want to make sure we get it right.

The game retains a strong focus on character design that we have pursued in previous major releases, with the key personalities of the period in particular being an early priority. There are vibrant and striking renders plastered around the studio, with eye-catching combat animations garnering some serious attention too.

Of course, none of the above mentioned projects are ready to be shown off just yet, and we don’t want to give too much info away – But we still wanted to keep you updated as much as we can

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Via .com forums (ugh still white on black that I fled here from waaaay back in S:TW days) https://forums.totalwar.com/discussi...-on-17-03-2017

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Historical Team – Unannounced Total War Title

Our next major historical release is now in full production with the game design locked and asset creation fully underway. The game retains the same strong focus on character design that infused previous major releases, with the key personalities of the period in particular being an early priority for us now; as such there are some vibrant and striking renders plastered around the studio, with eye-catching combat animations garnering some serious attention too.

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And a bit older https://forums.totalwar.com/discussi...-december-2016

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Historical Team – Unannounced Total War Title
With production getting fully underway in the new year, pre-production for our next historical major release continues. Also, we have now partnered with our first historical advisor, pre-eminent in his field and already bringing that world-leading expertise to bear on our designs and extensive research so far. Unfortunately there’s nothing more to report this month that wouldn’t give the game away before we’re ready

It will still be some time before we are able to share anything specific about our next big historical game. The official social media channels, and the world’s press will certainly tell you when there’s more to reveal.

In related news, we’ve recently been looking at ways in which we might get back to historical content before we release the next major historical Total War, in particular thinking about additional content or standalones for some of our more recent historical titles. Nothing decided yet though.

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I'm getting a 3 Kingdoms China vibe out of that :bow:
Or just seeing what I want to :boxedin:

Edit: or is Warring States?

Clearly it will be a period marked by very important personalities - so something that has been shaped by those characters. Quite interesting.

New period totally.

I guess you can't buy Attilla anymore or is it available on Steam.

Yes Attila is on Steam.

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Clearly it will be a period marked by very important personalities - so something that has been shaped by those characters.

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To be fair, that applies to every TW period they've done :juggle2:

Well not necessarily - the Medieval period had a lot of different personalities, and it's hard to say that one changed the course of it. Attila had Attila and Charlemagne, Rome had... everyone, Shogun had a few characters (so this applies) and Empire had everyone. Napoleon had a few characters.

Attila has become a rather polished game and I enjoyed the last Roman although good old Karls time was the best addition. R:TW II became also a fantastic game after patches and Octavian arrived. Empire was a slow start but it is so varied and rich that it's great fun to play it even after all those years. N:TW has also aged very well. Somehow M:TW II an R:TW feel stale compared to both. All refers to single player only.

Warhammer is for me a mix between the first PC game I loved, Heroes of Might and Magic III and the series in which I spent by far the most time, Totalwar. So I can't complain either.

Management-wise Warhammer 2 makes a lots of sense as the first part was a huge commercial success and as a (huge) add-on from the technical side a low risk project. The DLC policy is disliked by many but it does raise consideral additonal revenue (with high margins, I suppose) and spreads it over a longer period.

I would love another historical TW title, ideally a new theater. The massive rise of (PC) gaming in China over the last decade should make it easier to have something located there. Historical Japan was arguably considerably more popular around 2000 then historical China today but CA has the means to do it.

Totalwar and Tolkien would be perhaps even be bigger the Warhammer. Great modders have already proven the concept again and again. There is a scope for many, many games and add-ons and lots and lots of special DLCs. The big pound question is the price to access the world.

Something similar goes for Totalwar and Martin's Universe. Here too the only big financial question is how much they have to pay to use it.


OA

The thing with new TW games is that they have to explore new areas, otherwise they will lose interest for gamers.

So perhaps something real nice is in the works.

For the record CA has been actively updating Steam stuff in Rome2 https://steamdb.info/app/214950/history/
From recollection the folder names gave clues for the Persian campaign but Miller & Miller2 seem pretty obscure.

Last updated 9 hours ago. Hmm.

**hopes in Ancient that we'll get some news soon now that Warhammer2 is out**

**hopes in Medieval for a new one**