Re: The Pictish Confederacy
Very nice. And that faction banner is cool,too. I like the bloody scratches. :2thumbsup:
No body's responded to this one? :inquisitive:
Re: The Pictish Confederacy
Everyone's scared of the spooky Picts! :skull:
Re: The Pictish Confederacy
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Originally Posted by cherryfunk
Everyone's scared of the spooky Picts! :skull:
They are pretty scary,aren't they? Makes Cimmerians look warm and fuzzy.
Re: The Pictish Confederacy
I wonder if the main tribes should get their own units, i.e. Tiger Warband, Wolf Warband, etc. Each type might have certain advantages and favored weapons -- this would add a great deal of diversity to the faction, which it might lack otherwise. Also, it would be worth looking at the Native American units in the Kingdoms expansion and seeing if any of those would be appropriate (with some tweaking, of course).
It's notable that the Picts were REH's favorite race, and in his extended history of Hyboria they ended up conquering a vast empire if I'm not mistaken, so this faction should have sufficient complexity and detail to make it a very fun campaign -- and, a very potent enemy when the human is playing a different faction...
Re: The Pictish Confederacy
I like the idea of a couple of distinct units representing major Pictish tribes. Meaning they're a step above other Picts. Kind of a Spartan / Greek hoplite type of seperation.
Yeah,you're right about the Pictish Empire. It extended from Pictland at least as far as Koth and western Corinthia,because REH's essay notes something like "...for a while,Pictish and Hyrkanian snarled at eachother over the ruins of the empires they conquered."
Re: The Pictish Confederacy
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Originally Posted by Spartan198
I like the idea of a couple of distinct units representing major Pictish tribes. Meaning they're a step above other Picts. Kind of a Spartan / Greek hoplite type of seperation.
Yes, the very simplicity of the Pictish roster leaves a great deal of leeway for some creative thinking -- and, as Roma Surrectum did with various Greek Hoplites (Athenian Hoplites, Byzantine Hoplites, Corinthian Hoplites etc.) -- the variation in skins will lead to the impression of a vast host of many different tribes pulled together by a powerful leader.
And, again if we want to get creative, we could have the clans represented by unique characteristics. Visually, for example, the officers of the Tiger warband might be wearing tiger skins, the officers of the Wolf warband wearing wolfskins, etc. And likewise with stats -- Tiger warriors might be more impetuous, while Wolf warriors are more disciplined; and with weapons and armor -- say the Tiger clan prefers swords, while the Wolf clan specializes in javelin throwing. A tremendous amount of variety could be packed into relatively few units, which would make the faction much more interesting to play...
Re: The Pictish Confederacy
Quote:
Originally Posted by cherryfunk
I wonder if the main tribes should get their own units, i.e. Tiger Warband, Wolf Warband, etc. Each type might have certain advantages and favored weapons -- this would add a great deal of diversity to the faction, which it might lack otherwise. Also, it would be worth looking at the Native American units in the Kingdoms expansion and seeing if any of those would be appropriate (with some tweaking, of course).
They really should, and they will. :)
Howard mentions 12 different tribes in total: Wolf, Hawk, Eagle, Turtle, Eagle, Toucan, Cormorant, Sea-Falcon, Panther, Alligator, Otter, and Raven. In addition, he lists some of the "wildest and most barbaric of all" with shark's teeth, indicating a possible Shark tribe, and Gorm in The Hyborian Age wore tiger-skin, indicating a possible Tiger Tribe. Since there are frogs, elks, snakes, bears and jaguars in the Pictish Wilderness, there might be an Ape, Frog, Elk, Snake, Bear and Jaguar tribe too. All in all, that would provide 20 special units for each tribe, which would offer plenty of cool units.
Some of the more exotic special units could be very interesting based on their Totem animals: the Turtles operate with a sort of barbaric phalanx, using large turtle-shell shields in a slow but strong formation, their spears darting in and out from behind the shields like a snapping turtle's beak. The Alligators are master ambushers who thrash wildly with huge rudimentary polearms like an alligator's tail and jaws, protected by alligator hide armour. The Sharks are relentless pursuers with incredible endurance and speed, clothing themselves in abrasive shark-skin and wielding toothed swords, wrestling their opponents to the ground, using their armour as a weapon in itself.
All the other tribes would have similar advantages, all of which would offer interesting tactical choices. Send turtles to hold a position, alligators to disrupt pikemen, sharks after archers and skirmishers, and so forth.
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It's notable that the Picts were REH's favorite race, and in his extended history of Hyboria they ended up conquering a vast empire if I'm not mistaken, so this faction should have sufficient complexity and detail to make it a very fun campaign -- and, a very potent enemy when the human is playing a different faction...
Definitely. The Picts are a race that Howard returns to in a number of stories, from Kull to Conan to the Bran Mak Morn tales, so it's very important that they get their due realisation.
Re: The Pictish Confederacy
I love the ideas for the different unit types, Taranaich! Lots off possibilities there for some very cool units with unique tactics, strengths and weaknesses. This could make the Picts an extremely fun faction to play -- and a very dangerous faction to play against! Especially when you add in the supernatual element that their shamen provide... and Crom help you if they summon a Ghost Snake!
Re: The Pictish Confederacy
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Originally Posted by Taranaich
Some of the more exotic special units could be very interesting based on their Totem animals: the Turtles operate with a sort of barbaric phalanx, using large turtle-shell shields in a slow but strong formation, their spears darting in and out from behind the shields like a snapping turtle's beak.
Oh,now that's original! REH would be impressed with that,IMO.
...be kinda funny if you decided to call that the "turtle-wall".
Re: The Pictish Confederacy
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Originally Posted by cherryfunk
I love the ideas for the different unit types, Taranaich! Lots off possibilities there for some very cool units with unique tactics, strengths and weaknesses. This could make the Picts an extremely fun faction to play -- and a very dangerous faction to play against! Especially when you add in the supernatual element that their shamen provide... and Crom help you if they summon a Ghost Snake!
Playing the Picts and uniting the tribes would be a fun campaign in itself: you have to figure out how best to attack these barbarians who all have such different styles of warfare. There'd need to be a bit of imagination involved distinguishing the bird tribes since Hawks, Eagles and Sea-Falcons are generally pretty similar. And I've no clue what to do with Otters: how does that lend itself to warfare? I thought maybe making them faster and more resilient swimmers than others would be something, giving them a strategic advantage in river battles = important in the wilderness' many rivers and tributaries. Some sea-land tribes will have their own varieties of canoes, and of course some animal tribes can train war animals (though I don't know how useful War Toucans would be!)
Also, the tribes won't just be distinguished by military units: different tribes will have different trade resources, buildings, technologies and ancillaries which would be a boon to any warchiefs.
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Originally Posted by Spartan198
Oh,now that's original! REH would be impressed with that,IMO.
...be kinda funny if you decided to call that the "turtle-wall".
Heh, perhaps. If the animation modders manage to crack the testudo formation I might nab it for the Turtles, though a shield formation would do just as well.
Re: The Pictish Confederacy
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There'd need to be a bit of imagination involved distinguishing the bird tribes since Hawks, Eagles and Sea-Falcons are generally pretty similar. And I've no clue what to do with Otters: how does that lend itself to warfare? I thought maybe making them faster and more resilient swimmers than others would be something, giving them a strategic advantage in river battles = important in the wilderness' many rivers and tributaries. Some sea-land tribes will have their own varieties of canoes, and of course some animal tribes can train war animals (though I don't know how useful War Toucans would be!)
You might consider simplifying a bit and basing units off, say, 10 of the 20 tribes, leave some of the more obscure ones to be represented by things like ancilliaries, buildings, etc. I'm worried that too many units with only slight variations would confuse the player and reduce rather than increase the gameplay experience. Or, you might represent all the 'bird' tribes, but give them the same attack/defense/special abilities, and only distinguish them by their skins... that way the player would know how to use them effectively, but they'd create the visual impression of a varied confederation.
Re: The Pictish Confederacy
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Originally Posted by cherryfunk
You might consider simplifying a bit and basing units off, say, 10 of the 20 tribes, leave some of the more obscure ones to be represented by things like ancilliaries, buildings, etc. I'm worried that too many units with only slight variations would confuse the player and reduce rather than increase the gameplay experience. Or, you might represent all the 'bird' tribes, but give them the same attack/defense/special abilities, and only distinguish them by their skins... that way the player would know how to use them effectively, but they'd create the visual impression of a varied confederation.
Yeah, I think that would work. I can't really imagine the Otter Picts being particularly interesting soldiers in comparison to some others, but perhaps they have a special boat or trade situation with the Zingarans which would be useful. Same with the birds: one could offer a unique unit, another a building, another maybe ancillaries or trade bonuses, with all of them sharing a generic "Coastal Tribe" unit.
Re: The Pictish Confederacy
Would it be possible to give the Pictish Shamans the ability to call a Warpath like the Apachean Tribes? This could be a huge advantage for the Picts to not only have very much increased movement ability; but also to supplement their numbers very quickly with "horde" type troops that the Warleader could summon to him at little to no cost in raising new troops.
This way, while the standing Pictish military wouldn't be all that big, very quickly each Pictish Warleader would be able to raise more soldiers, increase his armies movement, and even give a religious zeal to his troops that make them fight harder.
I know nothing of computer programming, but while playing Kingdoms as the Apachean Tribes, I used this tactic for the first time and immediately thought of Picts vs. Aquilonia.
Also, using the Apachean Tribes, you could allow the Picts to gather technology that would allow them to later build structures that allow them cavalry even...just like in Howard's history. I don't know how you would change the muskets to just weapons...like I said, I know nothing of computers; but I thought perhaps it is possible.
Re: The Pictish Confederacy
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Originally Posted by
Taranaich
They really should, and they will. :)
The Sharks are relentless pursuers with incredible endurance and speed, clothing themselves in abrasive shark-skin and wielding toothed swords, wrestling their opponents to the ground, using their armour as a weapon in itself.
I was thinking that maybe the Shark tribe, (you mostly thought of it already). Giving the sharks a primitive navy, starting them off with canoe's or a bigger war canoe (like the polynesians) and then maybe when the revolution starts to progress, give the picts (Sharks) bigger and better naval ships?:england::france::denmark::viking:
Re: The Pictish Confederacy
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Originally Posted by
Andrik
Would it be possible to give the Pictish Shamans the ability to call a Warpath like the Apachean Tribes? This could be a huge advantage for the Picts to not only have very much increased movement ability; but also to supplement their numbers very quickly with "horde" type troops that the Warleader could summon to him at little to no cost in raising new troops.
You'd better believe it. We see such a thing in "Beyond the Black River" where Jhebbal-Sag pulls together a whole horde of tribes to invade the Westermarck, so it's a no-brainer to implement it for the Picts. Indeed, this is one of the biggest problems the Aquilonia player faces, because it can come out of nowhere and overwhelm your forces unless you take out the Shamans preemptively (a mechanic related to my overhaul of the religious aspect into something else).
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Also, using the Apachean Tribes, you could allow the Picts to gather technology that would allow them to later build structures that allow them cavalry even...just like in Howard's history. I don't know how you would change the muskets to just weapons...like I said, I know nothing of computers; but I thought perhaps it is possible.
In addition to the dreaded Pictish Reforms - a dynamic which requires a couple of conditions - there are a few of those technology-stealing Pictish units. Pictish Warriors are most common along the south & south-western frontier, having stolen, traded or found swords and mail armour and putting them to use. The Reforms would bring Pictish Swordsmen, Pictish Spearmen and Pictish Cavalry, with the present skirmishers & light infantry rounding up the deadly fighting machine. Plus the magic aid the Shamans bring like beasties and offensive/defensive sorcery.
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I was thinking that maybe the Shark tribe, (you mostly thought of it already). Giving the sharks a primitive navy, starting them off with canoe's or a bigger war canoe (like the polynesians) and then maybe when the revolution starts to progress, give the picts (Sharks) bigger and better naval ships?
Quite possibly. The Picts never become the fully-fledged navy that they were in Thurian times, but they do indeed have polynesian-style war canoes, some rivaling the Black Corsair's galleys in length. The Sharks will have fast attack canoes, the Otters larger war canoes, and the Alligators big 20-footers. The Pictish reforms will allow the creation of big double-hulled waʻa kaulua-types like the Hokule'a (which I imagine is the type of craft the Thurian Picts used to travel across the world)