Total War 1800-1900

Hello fellows.

My idea of a perfect followup to Empire Total War would be a game that subsequently carries on the timeline to include up to the early 1900's. Field battles are relatively comparable to the earlier periods depicted in ETW, just with increasingly deadly weaponry. Plus a greater importance on looser formations in the later periods. Whether as a massive sequal/expansion which could be intergrated with ETW, or as its own standalone game (Going from 1700-1900 would be amazing though. Perhaps one day we can have 200bc-1900 in a Total War game :D)

There's all the fun of the great colonial expansions, great battles and wars to be re-enacted, Britians explosion as a global empire, unification of Germany, Napoleonic war, colonization of Australia and dividing up Africa, Waterloo, Crimean War, the Zulu War, the American Civil Warm, the 'Ole West, fun for the whole family.

You have all that great pomp and ceremony, the Brits will have their redcoats and the Germans their Pickelhaube. Advancments in weaponary and research in the final periods will be the key to winning battles, culminating in the final developments of Breech loading rifles, Needle Rifles, Martini-Henry's, Smokeless powder and in the last few years the bolt action rifle and Machine gun.

Naval battles will see the Ironclads and pre-dreadnoughts duking it out with increasingly large calibre guns. Ramships and torpedo moniters.

It wasn't until the First World War that the great industrial nations went to war, and wars escalated from Total War scale battles to the millions. So prior to that it is totally possible on the ETW Engine. It would be massive epic and totally fitting the Total War series.

Not a bad Idea, I would personally say to limit it to about 1870, main reason is because by this time, Bolt-Action/Breech-loading rifles were coming into affect, and I think it might be hard to implement that in TW engine(could be wrong).

I would like to see the war of 1812 and all the Navy fighting against the British, The Guerriere, the Java, the Shannon(Royal Navy) against the Constitution, Constellation, President, United States,(U.S Navy) etc.(Just got done reading Six Frigates: The Epic Founding of the U.S Navy, so Im stoked!).

Yep, 1870 is my limit also. Firepower gets too deadly after that and tactical formations start to change radicaly. TW needs to stick to close formation warfare imo.

I also agree on the 1870 limit. Bolt-action rifles would just mow down all our pretty, peacock formations in a mere matter of seconds from miles away.

Btw, weren't there already numerous threads about this?

It's not true that the Bolt-Action would ruin the game, essentialy all bolt actions up till the Mauser 1871 were single shot.

Even the 1871 wasn't in deployed in great numbers in the Franco-Prussian wars the earlier single shot weapons being used in far greater weapons.

Widespread usage of magzine fed weapons started around late 1880s with the 1871/84 the Lee Metford (1899) and the Mosin Nagant (1891)

Well within the scope of total war.

The tactics didn't deviate massively until the advent of total industrial war of 1914. Up until that point traditional millitary tactics still dicated the battlefield.

true. however, there have been numerous threads about this. I believe "a modern total war" thread has many comments about this, plus I'd bet good money I could easily find another 2 or 3 floating around these forums

Well i didnt read through the entire thread. But they are talking about 20th century and beyond, not 19th century thats all.

Anyhow it will drift away if its not interesting.

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Originally Posted by Zoring

It's not true that the Bolt-Action would ruin the game, essentialy all bolt actions up till the Mauser 1871 were single shot.

Even the 1871 wasn't in deployed in great numbers in the Franco-Prussian wars the earlier single shot weapons being used in far greater weapons.

Widespread usage of magzine fed weapons started around late 1880s with the 1871/84 the Lee Metford (1899) and the Mosin Nagant (1891)

Well within the scope of total war.

The tactics didn't deviate massively until the advent of total industrial war of 1914. Up until that point traditional millitary tactics still dicated the battlefield.

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Yes, the Dreyse and Chasspot rifles were both very deadly to close order formations; that is why 1870 is even a stretch. Once magazine fed rifles and automatic crew-served weapons were issued, the formations started to thin out and alternatives started to be sought. Of course it did take the early bloodbaths of WW1 for the absolute need for drastic change to sink in. I just don't think that a TW game without a viable Horse arm and close order Infantry would be interesting.

After 18?? (dates can vary) warfare evolved into wars of attrition. I don't think waiting an enemy out with bits of action in between is fun.

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Originally Posted by Familyguy1

I would like to see the war of 1812 and all the Navy fighting against the British, The Guerriere, the Java, the Shannon(Royal Navy) against the Constitution, Constellation, President, United States,(U.S Navy) etc.(Just got done reading Six Frigates: The Epic Founding of the U.S Navy, so Im stoked!).

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I just registered to respond to this thread. I'm halfway thru reading Six Frigates right now (after reading all of Patrick O'brien's Aubrey-Maturin series). I assumed Empire: Total War would include the war of 1812, or at least the time period. Doesn't one of the special versions of the game include the USS Constitution?

As far as when the game should end, I would say around 1840-1850. After that warfare begins to change rapidly, with breech loading, then bolt action rifles, very powerful artillery, iron-clad warships, the railroad, and the telegraph. I'm not sure a Total War style game would really fit. I'd rather the game go back to around 1500 and the dawn of true gunpowder warfare.

I could go for this time period. So many more wars to fight. This was the beginning of the American "Imperial" age via Manifest Destiny.

War of 1812
Mexican American War
American Civil War

The American Civil War was the of last war featuring lines of men firing volleys of musket fire into each other. It was also the birth of modern warfare, seeing the development of repeating weapons, the machine gun and trench warfare. After this, I think it might be difficult to play out battles using the engine, but I think the following 2 wars would also be interesting to see anyway.

Spanish American War
Phillippine Insurrection

Speaking of the Phillippines, that would have been a good place to include in the main game. The Spanish had taken the islands as a colony after Magellan's visit to the islands, and were always facing revolts up to their ouster from the islands at the conclusion of the Spanish American War in 1898. (Though at one time the British drove them out of Manila for several years) Not willing to grant Phillippine inderpendence at the conclusion of the war, the insurrection began against shortly after and lasted into the early parts of the 20th century.

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Originally Posted by lobosrul

I just registered to respond to this thread. I'm halfway thru reading Six Frigates right now (after reading all of Patrick O'brien's Aubrey-Maturin series). I assumed Empire: Total War would include the war of 1812, or at least the time period. Doesn't one of the special versions of the game include the USS Constitution?

As far as when the game should end, I would say around 1840-1850. After that warfare begins to change rapidly, with breech loading, then bolt action rifles, very powerful artillery, iron-clad warships, the railroad, and the telegraph. I'm not sure a Total War style game would really fit. I'd rather the game go back to around 1500 and the dawn of true gunpowder warfare.

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Welcome to the Org lobosrul!:2thumbsup: We hope you stick around. :beam:

I wish Empire ended around 1850, but in fact it ends 1799. So no war of 1812 I'm afraid. :no:

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Originally Posted by lobosrul

I just registered to respond to this thread. I'm halfway thru reading Six Frigates right now (after reading all of Patrick O'brien's Aubrey-Maturin series). I assumed Empire: Total War would include the war of 1812, or at least the time period. Doesn't one of the special versions of the game include the USS Constitution?

As far as when the game should end, I would say around 1840-1850. After that warfare begins to change rapidly, with breech loading, then bolt action rifles, very powerful artillery, iron-clad warships, the railroad, and the telegraph. I'm not sure a Total War style game would really fit. I'd rather the game go back to around 1500 and the dawn of true gunpowder warfare.

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Welcome aboard lobosrul.

You are right that Old Ironsides make it into the game, as a special unit provided by one of the vendors.

Originally the game was set to end in around 1820. At some point they decided to end in 1799 but the units and tech tree are still there.

The other 5 frigates may very well be there as well. I am hoping they are!

In the survey this was one of the choices…1800-1900.

You guys are concentrating on European developments in fire arms and forgetting that the Henry Rifle made it appearance in the American Civil War along with gatling guns and a few other major developments…like iron clads and submarines…

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

Welcome aboard lobosrul.

You are right that Old Ironsides make it into the game, as a special unit provided by one of the vendors.

Originally the game was set to end in around 1820. At some point they decided to end in 1799 but the units and tech tree are still there.

The other 5 frigates may very well be there as well. I am hoping they are!

In the survey this was one of the choices…1800-1900.

You guys are concentrating on European developments in fire arms and forgetting that the Henry Rifle made it appearance in the American Civil War along with gatling guns and a few other major developments…like iron clads and submarines…

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Yeah, that's why I am not even completely comfortable going up to 1870; I just love that era though.
As far as technology, I really dont want to go beyond muzzleloading smallarms. I guess that would mean a cutoff date of not much beyond ETW. I hope CA goes back a bit to 1600 after the Napoleonic Expansion. I would love to see a Tercio formation in battle. Then we could tie them all in for a 1600-1820 extrvaganza.:2thumbsup: