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Re: Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all
If they operate in trainstations then why are they so hard to find, trainstations have security-camara's. Seems to me that the police isn't even trying. Buy a good knive that you can swing open by the way, you will feel better if you it have in your pocket.
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Re: Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kadagar_AV
I have noticed that I don't feel "safe" anymore, look over my shoulder and stuff. I think the mental damage will take longer to heal than the physical, if at all.
That's a damn shame.
Something similar happened to me in Scotland back in '92 when I was out'n about in Glasgow. Won't get into details but I managed to run them off. Can't for the life of me remember any faces and I didn't report it as I wasn't too hurt (only a cut from a bottle over my right ear). Even as "victorious", the mark is there. You just tense when you see youth gathered and think about how to best get out if attacked (never got it professionally looked into).
Of course back then - I wasn't distracted by a mobile phone, and saw them coming.
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Re: Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fragony
If they operate in trainstations then why are they so hard to find, trainstations have security-camara's. Seems to me that the police isn't even trying. Buy a good knive that you can swing open by the way, you will feel better if you it have in your pocket.
They wait outside the stations until they see someone walking home alone. A knife probably wouldnt have helped much, and odds are I would just have been stabbed then. Also, I dont want to go to jail for knife-crime as that is seen as a serious crime here in Sweden. We're not even allowed to carry knifes, if it's not part of our job. As teacher it would be hard to explain why I need it.
Sigurd, Seems like you were lucky, or very fast?
I rarely use my phone, I make maybe 1-2 calls a day. This time however my mother called about my dog, he had an operation last thursday, so I really needed to take the call. Was a mistake in hindsigh, of course. But I'm not sure I like a society where you have to be on constant alert. I'm not used to living that way.
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Re: Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all
The problem with bringing in people from the 3rd world is that they bring the 3rd world with them. I'm in favor of immigration and freedom from oppression, jobs, and education for everyone, but in the US we balance it with having everyone armed to the teeth on their walk to the store or to Church. It is a hedge. Sorry that you felt the brunt of multikulti firsthand.
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Re: Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kadagar_AV
They wait outside the stations until they see someone walking home alone. A knife probably wouldnt have helped much, and odds are I would just have been stabbed then. Also, I dont want to go to jail for knife-crime as that is seen as a serious crime here in Sweden. We're not even allowed to carry knifes, if it's not part of our job. As teacher it would be hard to explain why I need it.
I don't know if this is true for Sweden as well, but using a weapon in defence doesn't weight as much as possesion of something you aren't allowed to have. My knive is legal here at least, I like the thought that I can defend myself should I have to.
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Re: Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fragony
I don't know if this is true for Sweden as well, but using a weapon in defence doesn't weight as much as possesion of something you aren't allowed to have. My knive is legal here at least, I like the thought that I can defend myself should I have to.
Knives won't help you unless you are Doug Marcaida, but they might get you killed. You need firepower and you need to avoid large groups of people walking together. Always be alert
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Re: Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICantSpellDawg
The problem with bringing in people from the 3rd world is that they bring the 3rd world with them. I'm in favor of immigration and freedom from oppression, jobs, and education for everyone, but in the US we balance it with having everyone armed to the teeth on their walk to the store or to Church. It is a hedge. Sorry that you felt the brunt of multikulti firsthand.
I don't think it's a very good idea to turn this into an immigration thread when Swedish football fans just whacked one of their own this weekend.
It seems the 3rd world was already present in Sweden before any immigrants came over.
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Re: Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoreTore
I don't think it's a very good idea to turn this into an immigration thread when Swedish football fans just whacked one of their own this weekend.
It seems the 3rd world was already present in Sweden before any immigrants came over.
You be the judge. In the US, the vast majority of violent crime exists in areas with the highest levels of immigrants due to their low educational attainment and place of origin. Those are also my favorite places because they represent where successful decent people work the hardest to elevate themselves.
For the record, I turned it into an self defense/gun rights discussion first. Multiculturalism is the just the catalyst I'm using to convince people to defend themselves from the important experiment that their governments are running. No racism, no interest in reducing immigration, just an interest in not having your ass kicked in public by knuckledraggers of all colors, shapes, and sizes.
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Re: Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICantSpellDawg
Knives won't help you unless you are Doug Marcaida, but they might get you killed. You need firepower and you need to avoid large groups of people walking together. Always be alert
Quik slice on the forehead is all it takes, there is so much blood pouring into their eyes that they can't do anything. If you can hit someone you can do that as well. It will only hurt their pride, you won't do any real damage. And yeah, did that. Had no problem with doing it, still don't. Thing is, you don't get picked if they can see that you will have absolutily no problem with doing that. And they can absolutily notice that.
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Re: Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all
Quote:
but in the US we balance it with having everyone armed to the teeth on their walk to the store or to Church.
Hard to explain the low crime in areas with no guns, eh?
Quote:
the vast majority of violent crime exists in areas with the highest levels of immigrants
A blatant falsehood.
For someone who lives around NYC, you sure have to ignore a lot of stuff to construct your worldview...
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Re: Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all
So sorry to hear about this. What a bunch of cowardly bastards.
I truly hope for a speedy recovery for you, physically and mentally.
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Re: Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kadagar_AV
Sigurd, Seems like you were lucky, or very fast?
I was 20 and had just finished military training. My self-image was "invincible". These were native Scottish alley cats.
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Re: Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Montmorency
Hard to explain the low crime in areas with no guns, eh?
A blatant falsehood.
For someone who lives around NYC, you sure have to ignore a lot of stuff to construct your worldview...
I've never heard of anyone being jumped by roving white youths where I'm from. That may be different in other areas of the country. I have been reading about lower rates of crime for first generation immigrants to be fair, but violent crime rates double that of the white population for 2nd generation Hispanics. I'm not sure what to think. Most of the crime problems where I come from black youths rather than immigrants, whose rate of violent crime is somewhere on the order of 4-6x the rate of whites, but Eastern European criminal activity is crazy in NYC, but most of it is fraud related.
I like the kinds of Hispanic immigrants that we get here on LI. They are generally hard working and great. I hear that it is much worse in areas bordering Mexico.
None of my friends have ever been in jail. Ever. In fact, none of them have even been pregnant before getting married which is even wielded. But a few of them have had their asses kicked by minorities, so my personal anecdote is worth something to me.
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Re: Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all
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but [ex-Soviet] criminal activity is crazy in NYC.
I think this may be outdated. But I will grant that in the US organized-crime groups have tended to arise from the first generations of large, cohesive immigrant groups.
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Re: Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Montmorency
I think this may be outdated. But I will grant that in the US organized-crime groups have tended to arise from the first generations of large, cohesive immigrant groups.
I've changed my post a bit to more closely match my understanding
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Re: Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Montmorency
I think this may be outdated. But I will grant that in the US organized-crime groups have tended to arise from the first generations of large, cohesive immigrant groups.
For me, assimilation is mandatory. If I see a polite person with a unique cultural background I am instantly drawn to them. People naturally assimilate with their surroundings. If you leave people in the ghetto, they assimilate into the ghetto.
Assimilation doesn't mean Asian people become twinkies or black people become oreos. It means they get a bit lighter as I get a bit darker. Both cultures change, it is our job to ensure that both cultures change for the better.
And also that everyone has a sweet gun collection and is constantly armed.
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Re: Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICantSpellDawg
For me, assimilation is mandatory. If I see a polite person with a unique cultural background I am instantly drawn to them. People naturally assimilate with their surroundings.
Why should they? I really don't mind it if they don't, we have no right to tell them how and what to think. No obligation either, quid pro quo.
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Re: Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all
Regarding ICSD's points:
Multiculturalism, aka an integrated identity, is something for which to strive. Assimilation, at least in academese, is the term used to denote the immigrant being forced to discard their parent culture and adopt the new host culture. Ideally, we would want them to embrace both as an integrated whole or at least "code switch" in an appropriate fashion so that they can enjoy both their culture of origin and the dominant culture of the community to which they have come. Of course, this level of benign integration is the most challenging. I suspect that you are using "assimilate" in this latter fashion.
There are huge problems with economically challenged immigrants, particularly when they come from a culture that has a fairly different set of values. I want to be clear, though, that race has nothing to do with it. The whites from Italy and Ireland in Hell's Kitchen, or Southie, or the Five Points were just as quick to form gangs and embrace hooliganism and "getting even" violence as were the Chinese in Chinatown in San Francisco or the Cubans in Miami. And we are all well aware that you don't need immigrants to form gangs or beget groups of hooligans and street thugs.
Two things that have to be considered:
Slowing the rate of immigration to a level that spurs economic growth but does not greatly surpass the rate of employment growth in the host economy. Lack of opportunity has always been associated with criminality.
Enhancing the police ability to suppress such things -- though be aware that suppression will involve police abuses as well since suppressive strategies feature a more overt and prominent role for police officers on the streets of the community. Also more costly on the tax payer.
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Re: Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all
Sorry to hear that Kad. Hope you recover your hand fully - you'd be amazed at what your body can do.
Random violence is scary in that it is random. We logically understand gang wars, or real wars, but being a victim of violence without provocation is upsetting. A powerlessness comes with it - a sense that nothing you could have done would have made it turn out any different. I have been in an unpleasant situation before, and now get really paranoid about areas where i might get attacked to the point I don't stop at traffic lights at night in some areas if i don't feel i really have to.
All I can say is pay attention to your surroundings always, and leave checking your phone for when you're in a place you know to be safe. Of course hindsight is always perfect.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!
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Re: Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Seamus Fermanagh
Regarding ICSD's points:
Multiculturalism, aka an integrated identity, is something for which to strive. Assimilation, at least in academese, is the term used to denote the immigrant being forced to discard their parent culture and adopt the new host culture. Ideally, we would want them to embrace both as an integrated whole or at least "code switch" in an appropriate fashion so that they can enjoy both their culture of origin and the dominant culture of the community to which they have come. Of course, this level of benign integration is the most challenging. I suspect that you are using "assimilate" in this latter fashion.
There are huge problems with economically challenged immigrants, particularly when they come from a culture that has a fairly different set of values. I want to be clear, though, that race has nothing to do with it. The whites from Italy and Ireland in Hell's Kitchen, or Southie, or the Five Points were just as quick to form gangs and embrace hooliganism and "getting even" violence as were the Chinese in Chinatown in San Francisco or the Cubans in Miami. And we are all well aware that you don't need immigrants to form gangs or beget groups of hooligans and street thugs.
Two things that have to be considered:
Slowing the rate of immigration to a level that spurs economic growth but does not greatly surpass the rate of employment growth in the host economy. Lack of opportunity has always been associated with criminality.
Enhancing the police ability to suppress such things -- though be aware that suppression will involve police abuses as well since suppressive strategies feature a more overt and prominent role for police officers on the streets of the community. Also more costly on the tax payer.
In practice, multiculturalism has resulted in ghettos. It's like Communism: nice idea, never works in practice.
Take a moment to think and it's obvious why - because nobody has two cultures, they may have a blended culture, but not two cultures within them. The political doctrine allows different groups to form their own cultural units within a society, this weakens the overall cohesiveness of the society and what happed to Kad is the logical result.
Kad: I don't think it was a "hate crime" I think they just attacked you because you weren't "one of them".
Which frankly, is a daft situation for a Swede to be in in Sweden.
Same applies to the bronzes on the War memorials here - the way we're brought up, you'd basically have to be a socio-path to be able to do that - but a foreigner doesn't care about our cult of rememberer, so he can steel a 100-year old figure of Christ or the plaque listing the names of the Fallen without feeling anything.
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Re: Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all
Can I get my points. I have been warning for this for years.
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Re: Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla
In practice, multiculturalism has resulted in ghettos. It's like Communism: nice idea, never works in practice.
Take a moment to think and it's obvious why - because nobody has two cultures, they may have a blended culture, but not two cultures within them. The political doctrine allows different groups to form their own cultural units within a society, this weakens the overall cohesiveness of the society and what happed to Kad is the logical result.
Kad: I don't think it was a "hate crime" I think they just attacked you because you weren't "one of them".
Which frankly, is a daft situation for a Swede to be in in Sweden.
Same applies to the bronzes on the War memorials here - the way we're brought up, you'd basically have to be a socio-path to be able to do that - but a foreigner doesn't care about our cult of rememberer, so he can steel a 100-year old figure of Christ or the plaque listing the names of the Fallen without feeling anything.
A logical result? I can't agree. I have lived in a neighbourhood where the most dangerous and violent people were the neo-nazi Real Madrid supporters. Immigrant gangs originated to defend against their attacks rather than to attack others. Eventually most of them (both neo-nazi and immigrant gangs) evolved into drugs and random violence, but that was absolutely not how it began.
I could postulate that generalisation creates violence.
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Re: Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fragony
Can I get my points. I have been warning for this for years.
It's a Cassandra thing. If your prognostications are wrong, you get reviled for the inanity of your predictions. If you are later proven correct....you are reviled even more.
Internet justice, ain't it beee-ooo--tiful.
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Re: Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all
About multiculturalism, I of course agree that the idea as is sounds good. Not as good as making a national country, where everyone love and support each other though (as much as can be expected).
Sweden used to be rather idyllic, I have no idea why we decided to tear it all up and instead import people from the worst cultures in the world, Somalia and Afghanistan comes to mind, also gypsys...
I don't get it.
Maybe because the average guy here is like HoreTore or Lars, who refuse to believe there is a problem even if they hear gunshots in their hallway.
About weapons and guns... Sure, we could of course build a society where to feel secure, one have to arm up resembling the marines in Aliens, and move in tactical formation down the streets.
That's not my idea of a idyllic society though.
Crimes like these used to be non-existant to extremely rare. If they happened, media would write all over about it, and police would concentrate their efforts to catch the criminals.
Today, people hardly raise an eyebrow.
I feel disgusted at what we have become.
Keep Sweden Swedish, and out with the lowlife immigrants (not talking about German Doctors here).
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Re: Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kadagar_AV
Sweden used to be rather idyllic, I have no idea why we decided to tear it all up and instead import people from the worst cultures in the world, Somalia and Afghanistan comes to mind, also gypsys...
You got beaten up by immigrants at the same time as another Swede was beaten to death by ethnic Swedes.
Go cry me a river.
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Re: Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all
I am sorry to hear about this, Kad. Try not to let yourself become hateful of it - it is a human reaction but not a good one.
IMO such random violence is a result of social bonds breaking down. People don't respect other people any more, they can't identify with each other, they live in different worlds and don't have any sort of shared experience of life. Immigration plays a part in this process, but it only a small part of the story. I blame anything that creates division in society - where people stop becoming human beings, and become labels - a 'chav' or a 'toff', a 'dole-scrounger' or a 'snob', a 'Paki' or a 'cracker', a 'hun' or a 'taig', or whatever. Because when you see people as labels, you don't consider the human pain they feel when you inflict it on them, all you see is whatever the particular label you give them denotes.
Immigration might create a very visible divide in society due to skin colour etc, but really all the above is going to be on some level a side effect of urban society. It's because of the monkeysphere. As human beings, we are capable of recognising an extended group of about 150 people as being our co-humans, and any people beyond that core 150 are seen as completely one-dimensional characters that have no existence beyond whatever it is we see them doing, or know them for in our own lives. Hence I feel that to you, an Arab immigrant is not a person with parents and children and a life story, he is in fact just a threat. Likewise, to an Arab immigrant, you are not an teacher and ski-instructor that loves history and women from many different countries, you are in fact just a walking cash machine.
I guess the only solution would be to return to living in smaller communities with more organic social ties, but that is just hopeless romanticism.
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Re: Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rhyfelwyr
I guess the only solution would be to return to living in smaller communities with more organic social ties, but that is just hopeless romanticism.
Yeah, bringing back shaming, hushed whispers and social exclusion whenever someone doesn't conform to the norm is a brilliant idea.
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Re: Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoreTore
You got beaten up by immigrants at the same time as another Swede was beaten to death by ethnic Swedes.
Go cry me a river.
I don't see your logic here. We don't have an immigrant problem, and I shouldnt whine for being assaulted, because another guy died this week? Perpetrator is unknown btw, might well have been an immigrant.
I really, REALLY fail to see you having any point what so ever.
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Re: Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kadagar_AV
I don't see your logic here. We don't have an immigrant problem, and I shouldnt whine for being assaulted, because another guy died this week? Perpetrator is unknown btw, might well have been an immigrant.
I really, REALLY fail to see you having any point what so ever.
The perpetrators are identified as casuals, and they're almost all ethnic Swedes(as are most football fans in general, immigrants support Barcelona).
I don't care about your whining, what I do care about is how you twist it from a crime problem to an immigration and cultural problem, coupled with neo-nazi slogans.
Considering that your fellow Swedes showed their true character this weekend, I find the timing of your reference to idyllic Sweden hilarious.
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Re: Being assaulted and robbed isn't very much fun at all
In related news, this is what it looks like when a group of fine, young Swedish gentlemen visits a pub.
I can see why people don't want to ruin this idyllic society.