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Re: Do you want Germany to raise military expenses?
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Originally Posted by
Brenus
Why France should put its nuclear deterrent at the service of, say, Latvia or Hungary?
Why any country should be hostage of others' foreign policy/demands?
Do Americans complain the Texas nukes are Hostage to New York or Ohio? United States of Europe is the federal government and that will control the Euro-Army.
As for Fragony's points. Armies will become mixed and getting cross stationed over the continent. Military drills to Ode to Joy.
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Re: Do you want Germany to raise military expenses?
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Originally Posted by
Beskar
Do Americans complain the Texas nukes are Hostage to New York or Ohio? United States of Europe is the federal government and that will control the Euro-Army.
As for Fragony's points. Armies will become mixed and getting cross stationed over the continent. Military drills to Ode to Joy.
Hello George.
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Re: Do you want Germany to raise military expenses?
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Originally Posted by
Sarmatian
What is also being ignored is that Germany plans to increase military expenditure in the following years.
Increasing it by 60+% at once isn't really a smart thing to do, as it would be very hard to make sure than money was being spent efficiently.
Germany has some experience with increasing military expenses very rapidly, though.
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Re: Do you want Germany to raise military expenses?
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Originally Posted by
Franconicus
Germany has some experience with increasing military expenses very rapidly, though.
It was a longish process to ramp up under the Kaiser, not done quickly.
The increases made rapidly under the Nazis were done by Speer starting way too late. They didn't truly get their economy shifted from butter to guns much ahead of the USA, despite our late entry.
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Re: Do you want Germany to raise military expenses?
Speer didn't so much shift production from butter to guns, he standardized and streamlined it.
It was interesting to hear him talk about it in World at War.
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Re: Do you want Germany to raise military expenses?
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Originally Posted by
Seamus Fermanagh
It was a longish process to ramp up under the Kaiser, not done quickly.
The increases made rapidly under the Nazis were done by Speer starting way too late. They didn't truly get their economy shifted from butter to guns much ahead of the USA, despite our late entry.
AFAIK the Prussians pioneered the cadre method after the post-Jena settlement severely restricted the size of their army.
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Re: Do you want Germany to raise military expenses?
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Originally Posted by
Beskar
United States of Europe is the federal government and that will control the Euro-Army.
And ease the tremendous financial burdain the french nuclear component is (thanks!), in order for us to begin a much needed update of our conventionnal forces. I'd like to see that.
German and finnish friends, would you be pleased to fund EU's nukes? If so, welcome.
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Re: Do you want Germany to raise military expenses?
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Originally Posted by
Tristuskhan
And ease the tremendous financial burdain the french nuclear component is (thanks!), in order for us to begin a much needed update of our conventionnal forces. I'd like to see that.
German and finnish friends, would you be pleased to fund EU's nukes? If so, welcome.
Finland is not in the EU, but Germany is.
Edit: Got EU and NATO wrong way around.
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Re: Do you want Germany to raise military expenses?
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Originally Posted by
Beskar
Finland is not in the EU, but Germany is.
? I must have missed the news..
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Re: Do you want Germany to raise military expenses?
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Originally Posted by
Beskar
Finland is not in the EU, but Germany is.
Confusing the EU and NATO.
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Re: Do you want Germany to raise military expenses?
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Originally Posted by
Kagemusha
? I must have missed the news..
Gah... was so afraid of beeing wrong I got mind messed.
Aaaah out of NATO, such luck. I wish our nano-president of ten years ago had not knelt before the neocons. How does it feel to be still an independant country, Finns?
PS: got a few bucks for "our" nukes, please?
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Re: Do you want Germany to raise military expenses?
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Originally Posted by
Tristuskhan
And ease the tremendous financial burdain the french nuclear component is (thanks!), in order for us to begin a much needed update of our conventionnal forces. I'd like to see that.
German and finnish friends, would you be pleased to fund EU's nukes? If so, welcome.
You don't need nukes for a deterrent. Just send your submarines out without missiles.
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Re: Do you want Germany to raise military expenses?
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Originally Posted by
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
Confusing the EU and NATO.
Correct. I mixed it up.
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Re: Do you want Germany to raise military expenses?
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Originally Posted by
Pannonian
You don't need nukes for a deterrent. Just send your submarines out without missiles.
that was Corbyn's bright idea, no?
frankly, if germany just spent the missing 0.8% of GDP on investment a government spending, financed by tax rises that would do more for peace a security in europe than any other single act.
right now the german economy - aided by a suppressed currency - is de-industrialising the rest of southern europe.
and while we all might hope that italy see's the light, realising that the euro has never don't it a single cent of benefit, and leave..... it ain't gonna happen.
so step up, germany.
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Re: Do you want Germany to raise military expenses?
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Originally Posted by
Furunculus
that was Corbyn's bright idea, no?
frankly, if germany just spent the missing 0.8% of GDP on investment a government spending, financed by tax rises that would do more for peace a security in europe than any other single act.
right now the german economy - aided by a suppressed currency - is de-industrialising the rest of southern europe.
and while we all might hope that italy see's the light, realising that the euro has never don't it a single cent of benefit, and leave..... it ain't gonna happen.
so step up, germany.
Do you actually have some sort of evidence to back these pretty spectacular claims?
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Re: Do you want Germany to raise military expenses?
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Originally Posted by
Kagemusha
Do you actually have some sort of evidence to back these pretty spectacular claims?
that italy has not lost one quarter of its industrial capacity since 2008?
http://www.isigrowth.eu/wp-content/u...per_2016_2.pdf
euro-membership takes away the old policy prescription of inflating away structural productivity problems, but if the country has no interest in structural reforms it might as well have inflation as a tool in its toolbox.
or that a 'german' euro isn't 17% undervalued against the dollar in PPP terms?
http://www.businessinsider.com/r-eur...rs-2017-2?IR=T
which in opposite balance leaves countries like italy with an overvalued currency relative to the position of its economic performance.
again, not germany's fault that it introduced the hartz IV reforms in the noughties, which have suppressed the spending power of the german worker an so their appetite for goods which will include imports from neighbouring eu nations, but... you could always transfer wealth;
or that the eu has been incapable of creating the transfer union necessary to make a common currency area a success, by ensuring less competitive areas are not left behind?
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Re: Do you want Germany to raise military expenses?
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Originally Posted by
Furunculus
that was Corbyn's bright idea, no?
frankly, if germany just spent the missing 0.8% of GDP on investment a government spending, financed by tax rises that would do more for peace a security in europe than any other single act.
right now the german economy - aided by a suppressed currency - is de-industrialising the rest of southern europe.
and while we all might hope that italy see's the light, realising that the euro has never don't it a single cent of benefit, and leave..... it ain't gonna happen.
so step up, germany.
The Italians and Greeks had weak industry to start with and have responded to the challenge with... increasing the pension age to that of Germany? Increasing productivity? Opening their state industries to become more efficient and compete? Free up the labour market and reduce costs on businesses and encourage new industries? Erm, no. Mainly centred on complaining and demanding that they are allowed to continue to retire at 55 and the detail can be sorted out elsewhere.
A Northern League and a Southern League might make sense with broadly the Protestants living ordered, joyless lives of productive industry whilst the Catholics / Orthodox enjoy their pleasant lives of joyful chaos.
Of course, where the line goes through East Europe, and whether it divides Germany / France is an open question.
~:smoking:
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Re: Do you want Germany to raise military expenses?
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Originally Posted by
Beskar
Do Americans complain the Texas nukes are Hostage to New York or Ohio? United States of Europe is the federal government and that will control the Euro-Army.
Well, there is no Euro-Army, and no EU Federal Government. But there is conflictual interests within Europe.
So until EU being really a democracy, I don't want the bombs used for other purposes by others countries than for what they are built for: Not be be used. Thanks
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Re: Do you want Germany to raise military expenses?
"Free up the labour market and reduce costs on businesses and encourage new industries? " Like in Bangladesh... Very successful and prosperous country, Bangladesh. No holidays, no pension, no health and safety, children free to go to work at 5 years old, a paradise for enterprises.
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Re: Do you want Germany to raise military expenses?
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Originally Posted by
Brenus
"Free up the labour market and reduce costs on businesses and encourage new industries? " Like in Bangladesh... Very successful and prosperous country, Bangladesh. No holidays, no pension, no health and safety, children free to go to work at 5 years old, a paradise for enterprises.
With such reasoned arguments, who can compete?
Perhaps there is something between an ultra-controlled market and a developing country?
~:smoking:
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Re: Do you want Germany to raise military expenses?
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Originally Posted by
rory_20_uk
With such reasoned arguments, who can compete?
Perhaps there is something between an ultra-controlled market and a developing country?
~:smoking:
Bulgaria? Greece? Rural Northumberland? Who decides? The Holy Invisible Hand of the Markets?
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Re: Do you want Germany to raise military expenses?
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Originally Posted by
Tristuskhan
Bulgaria? Greece? Rural Northumberland? Who decides? The Holy Invisible Hand of the Markets?
I am gonna take a wild guess and suggest that Rory was referring to The USA, Western Europe, Japan, Mexico....regulated capitalism with varying degrees of government control over portions of the economy related to "social welfare" concerns.
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Re: Do you want Germany to raise military expenses?
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Originally Posted by
Seamus Fermanagh
I am gonna take a wild guess and suggest that Rory was referring to The USA, Western Europe, Japan, Mexico....regulated capitalism with varying degrees of government control over portions of the economy related to "social welfare" concerns.
Mexico? Is it the level of social welfare we should refer to? Nice. There must be something between hardline capitalism ans state rule on economy, indeed... This one looks to be badly leaning toward the first.
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Re: Do you want Germany to raise military expenses?
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Originally Posted by
Tristuskhan
Mexico? Is it the level of social welfare we should refer to? Nice. There must be something between hardline capitalism ans state rule on economy, indeed... This one looks to be badly leaning toward the first.
Not asserting that Mexico is an ideal in any way. Just pointing up that there is more than one recipe between the two points, Mexico's differing significantly from the USA etc.
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Re: Do you want Germany to raise military expenses?
At some point the EU will end up one of two things. A Germany with a Greek yoke or a German boot crushing a Greek. The other option being to dissolve borders and massively strengthen it. Which won't work, but some people think it will.
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Re: Do you want Germany to raise military expenses?
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Originally Posted by
Strike For The South
or a German boot crushing a Greek.
Germany did try. It didn't end very well...
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Re: Do you want Germany to raise military expenses?
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Originally Posted by
Brenus
Germany did try. It didn't end very well...
"well" depends only on the timeline one is using.
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Re: Do you want Germany to raise military expenses?
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Originally Posted by
Strike For The South
"well" depends only on the timeline one is using.
It's too soon to tell?
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Re: Do you want Germany to raise military expenses?
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Originally Posted by
Brenus
Germany did try. It didn't end very well...
True enough for the 1940s. Though to be fair, Germany had Zero interest in Greece until it felt compelled to pull the Italian's castagne out of the fire.
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Re: Do you want Germany to raise military expenses?
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Originally Posted by
Seamus Fermanagh
True enough for the 1940s. Though to be fair, Germany had Zero interest in Greece until it felt compelled to pull the Italian's castagne out of the fire.
Japan had Zero interest in building an empire until the Americans came along.