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CIA: Waterboarding used on 3 suspects
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"Waterboarding has been used on only three detainees," Hayden told the Senate Intelligence Committee. It was the first time a U.S. official publicly specified the number of people subjected to waterboarding and named them.
Critics call waterboarding a form of illegal torture. Congress is considering banning the technique.
Those subjected to waterboarding were suspected September 11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and senior al Qaeda leaders Abu Zubaydah and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, Hayden said at the hearing on threats to the United States.
He said waterboarding has not been used in five years.
"The circumstances are different than they were in late 2001, early 2002," Hayden said. "Very critical to those circumstances was the belief that additional catastrophic attacks against the homeland were imminent. In addition to that, my agency ... had limited knowledge about al Qaeda and its workings. Those two realities have changed."
Hayden told reporters later that the interrogations of Mohammed and Zubaydah were particularly fruitful.
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Re: CIA: Waterboarding used on 3 suspects
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Re: CIA: Waterboarding used on 3 suspects
If this proves to be true, I'm going to be very relieved.
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Re: CIA: Waterboarding used on 3 suspects
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Originally Posted by Lemur
If this proves to be true, I'm going to be very relieved.
Yeah, but it's going to be hard for them to prove to me that waterboarding has only been used three times.
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Re: CIA: Waterboarding used on 3 suspects
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Define "fruitful".
fruitful is when KSM admitted to planning or participating in every outrage that was committed over the past 20+ years .
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Yeah, but it's going to be hard for them to prove to me that waterboarding has only been used three times.
Its gonna be harder for you to prove oherwise since the CIA have been destroying evidence .
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Re: CIA: Waterboarding used on 3 suspects
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Originally Posted by Lemur
If this proves to be true, I'm going to be very relieved.
Much ado about nothing comes to mind. We previously heard reports that coercive interrogations were used by the CIA on 14 suspects. Now, apparently, we learn that: actual waterboarding was used only on 3 of the worst; that it was in the aftermath of 9/11; and that it yielded useful intelligence. I think that very few Americans would have a problem with this.
They should've just came out and said this earlier. Could they not do so due to intelligence reasons, due to incompetent leadership or what?
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Re: CIA: Waterboarding used on 3 suspects
Well, I would wait a while before breaking out the party favors. Some sort of independent confirmation of this would be really nice, especially given the CIA's recent track record.
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Re: CIA: Waterboarding used on 3 suspects
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Originally Posted by Xiahou
That it was in the aftermath of 9/11; and that it yielded useful intelligence.
If that intelligence is going on 7 years old surely and that Al Qaeda definitly know we are hunting them down, can't the intelligence gathered be revealed? Like the initial locations or list of connections that have been whacked? Since AQ would know which places have already been raided and which ones have died. Why not join the dots to this used intelligence?
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Re: CIA: Waterboarding used on 3 suspects
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Originally Posted by Xiahou
They should've just came out and said this earlier. Could they not do so due to intelligence reasons, due to incompetent leadership or what?
That it has taken so long to come out with this makes me extremely skeptical about the truth in this.
EDIT: Also:
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Originally Posted by article
Those subjected to waterboarding were suspected September 11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed
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Originally Posted by article
He said waterboarding has not been used in five years.
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Originally Posted by article
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed following his March 2003 arrest.
Is the poor CIA boss having trouble with his math again?
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Re: CIA: Waterboarding used on 3 suspects
Ah well, since they are those really bad guys, it's okay I guess, they're less human than those with the belts strapped on. They just did it on the evil masterminds...
If they didn't use it for five years I guess they switched to another technique five years ago. :sweatdrop:
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Re: CIA: Waterboarding used on 3 suspects
Not that it matters, but I wouldnt consider the CIA a trustworthy group. Lying and deceiving is what they do.
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Re: CIA: Waterboarding used on 3 suspects
If it's good enough for the Navy, it's good enough for detainees.
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Re: CIA: Waterboarding used on 3 suspects
I don't trust the CIA to be truthful regarding an investigation of their own practices. Frankly, I think its a lie to cover up a larger number of waterboarding uses on captives, and that this just made a plausable, yet not all that outrageous, lie.
HOWEVER, that being said, IF this is true, than I'd be willing to offer a pardon, as I could understand, in those times, why they would've been extra detirmined to get information. HOWEVER, I still think its torture and should not be practiced.
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Re: CIA: Waterboarding used on 3 suspects
Hmm. There's a bit of a trajectory here. From "We do not torture," to "Waterboarding isn't torture," to "Waterboarding might be torture," to "We only did it a little when we were flustered, and it worked great!"
I definitely want more info, and from more sources.
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Re: CIA: Waterboarding used on 3 suspects
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Originally Posted by holybandit
Not that it matters, but I wouldnt consider the CIA a trustworthy group. Lying and deceiving is what they do.
Yeah, they probably made up the waterboarding altogether... just to keep our attention diverted from the "real" issue. :whip:
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Re: CIA: Waterboarding used on 3 suspects
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Originally Posted by Xiahou
Yeah, they probably made up the waterboarding altogether... just to keep our attention diverted from the "real" issue. :whip:
:idea2: Selling crack to inner-city African-Americans to fund their secret wars in South America thereby weakening the United States, paving the way for our domination by the UN? Damn trilatteralists!
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Re: CIA: Waterboarding used on 3 suspects
Why don't they just operate the old-fashioned way?
"Don't lie, cheat, steal, assassinate, torture...
But if you do, don't get caught, 'cause we'll have to nail you to the prison door (while making your stay as comfortable as possible, and taking good care of your family, for life)."
What's with all the "sunshine" and transparency in an organization tasked to obtain reliable information for the executive, so the executive doesn't make ignorant mistakes?
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Re: CIA: Waterboarding used on 3 suspects
This could very well be part of a larger maneuver:
The United States may use waterboarding to question terrorism suspects in the future, the White House said Wednesday, rejecting the widely held belief that the practice amounts to torture.
"It will depend upon circumstances," spokesman Tony Fratto said, adding "the belief that an attack might be imminent, that could be a circumstance that you would definitely want to consider."
"The president will listen to the considered judgment of the professionals in the intelligence community and the judgment of the attorney general in terms of the legal consequences of employing a particular technique," he said. [...]
The spokesman said that the program would continue to operate under US law and "within our legal obligations with respect to" the Geneva Conventions.
Asked whether the White House's reasoning was that torture is illegal, the attorney general has certified that the interrogation practices are legal, therefore those practices are not torture, Fratto replied: "Sure."
It doesn't take a tinfoil hat to look at this development and see something repetitive. Once again, it's not torture, and we only did it three time (honest!), and only against very bad people, and it worked great. So shut up and leave us alone, and please authorize us to do it again.
It's another attempt to legalize their actions, plain and simple, by casting the best possible light on a technique favored by the Spanish Inquisition and the Khmer Rouge. I guess I should not have expected any better.
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Re: CIA: Waterboarding used on 3 suspects
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"It will depend upon circumstances,"
Would those circumatances be along the lines of, when they do it it is neccesary and justifiable , but when others do it it is a war crime .
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Re: CIA: Waterboarding used on 3 suspects
Speaking of shut up; you'd think these people would keep their traps shut about this kind of stuff. I can't see what possible benefit they can derive from it. In less, they hope the negative press will discourage or ban its practice.
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Re: CIA: Waterboarding used on 3 suspects
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Originally Posted by Lemur
If this proves to be true, I'm going to be very relieved.
Come on Lemur, the CIA has never lied to people...
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Re: CIA: Waterboarding used on 3 suspects
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Originally Posted by Lemur
It doesn't take a tinfoil hat to look at this development and see something repetitive. Once again, it's not torture, and we only did it three time (honest!), and only against very bad people, and it worked great. So shut up and leave us alone, and please authorize us to do it again.
What happened to "presumed innocent until proved guilty"?
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Re: CIA: Waterboarding used on 3 suspects
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Originally Posted by HoreTore
What happened to "presumed innocent until proved guilty"?
What happened to the boy who cried "Wolf!"?
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Re: CIA: Waterboarding used on 3 suspects
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Originally Posted by Husar
What happened to the boy who cried "Wolf!"?
He got a billion dollar record deal and married Angelina?
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Re: CIA: Waterboarding used on 3 suspects
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Originally Posted by HoreTore
He got a billion dollar record deal and married Angelina?
Now that you say that, it's "presumed innocent until proven guilty".
The point was that they lie, a lot. And this is politics, not a court(well, in court I'd agree with you) so everybody is allowed to have her/his own opinion on the matter and I think they're guilty. ~D
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Re: CIA: Waterboarding used on 3 suspects
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Originally Posted by HoreTore
What happened to "presumed innocent until proved guilty"?
What about the BLACK HELICOPTERS!!!
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Re: CIA: Waterboarding used on 3 suspects
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Originally Posted by Husar
Now that you say that, it's "presumed innocent until proven guilty".
I actually wrote it like that, but edited in the "d" afterwards since it sounded silly with an "n" :laugh4:
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Originally Posted by Husar
The point was that they lie, a lot. And this is politics, not a court(well, in court I'd agree with you) so everybody is allowed to have her/his own opinion on the matter and I think they're guilty. ~D
I was referring to CIA vs. tewwowists, not Lemur :whip:
ie. shouldn't the CIA treat the suspects like innocent men until their found guilty in a court of law? Not like it's ever going to happen, but still...
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Re: CIA: Waterboarding used on 3 suspects
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Originally Posted by HoreTore
ie. shouldn't the CIA treat the suspects like innocent men until their found guilty in a court of law? Not like it's ever going to happen, but still...
:inquisitive: Yes, let's revisit the '90s where the major terrorist attacks happened overseas. 1993 being the exception of course.
No, the answer is no for a host of reasons already belabored upon.
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Re: CIA: Waterboarding used on 3 suspects
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Originally Posted by Vladimir
:inquisitive: Yes, let's revisit the '90s where the major terrorist attacks happened overseas. 1993 being the exception of course.
No, the answer is no for a host of reasons already belabored upon.
So, you're OK with innocent people getting tortured along with the bad guys, if it keeps you safe?
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Re: CIA: Waterboarding used on 3 suspects
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Originally Posted by HoreTore
So, you're OK with innocent people getting tortured along with the bad guys, if it keeps you safe?
There you go again. You're ASSuming they're innocent and that they automatically get tortured. Think on it.