Swiss Pikemen

I always had this fancy about the Swiss Pikemen and Swiss Armoured Pikemen, but I never got around to actually using them in battle!

Are they really useful?

They have always seemed to my to be tougher slightly more deadly spears. If you make use of spear units I would say you would find them very useful.

You're gonna need some serious flank cover. Regular spears will do the trick - something with decent staying power that can suck up the charges and hold them until you can counter. Keep the pikeblock very tight and advance with extreme caution, so as to only engage the enemy dead on straight. They're very powerful in 1on1's, it's when they expose their flanks that the :daisy: hits the fan. Also, and most importantly, they're suckers for missiles. Arbs will tear chasms in their ranks in seconds.

I pretty much second bondovic: Swiss Pikemen and SAP are excellent in most melee situations, but they're definitely vulnerable to missiles. Just about anything heavier than regular archers will shred them to bits.

Hi

Personally I think pikes generally are too expensive - and too much bother - for what you get, taking into account their build requirements. Plus, you get so little frontage out of them if you're looking to maximise their additional ranks bonus.

And yeah, they're terribly vulnerable to missiles, and really unwiedly: as soon as they have to change facing or re-order their ranks they (which is to say you) are in trouble.

I think in most situations I'd rather have Chiv Sargeants with some armour and morale upgrades.

That said, Swiss Armoured Pikemen are one of the truely scary units to encounter in the AI's battle deployment roster, 'cos you know that, other things being equal, if they actually manage to engage your main battleline they're going to do serious damage. I can vividly recall a rebellion/reappearance consisting of several stacks largely composed of SAPs and Swiss Halbs. That one took several, very attritional, years to put down.

Best regards
Victor

SAPs backed with Swiss Halbies are pretty tough to put down, especially on defense. It's a shame the build restrictions are so high on the Swiss APs, while the Swiss start Late with the County Militia, getting the Master Armourer is nigh impossible. They have to make do with the royal units (which of course makes the SAP unit even tougher).

They pretty good, I love using them, but they get eaten for dinner by heavy archers, so make sure you don't send them out on a sucide mission with a lot of enemy archers oppsoing them.

Deadly. :skull::skull::skull::skull::skull: Perfect for me. Each time I play as the Byzantines Switzerland is a destination to my expansion. I remember Swiss Armoured Pikes to have lost two men in a head clash with Chivalric Knights. Combined with the S halberdiers (and the Byzantines archers (arrows!) and cavalry and the Byz inf and Spears for attracting enemy fire), these are unbeatable. Give them more credit, please!

Too bad they only appear late. By that time I almost conquered the whole world...

Late era sounds good though.

I remember I "discovered" an infantry triangle when I played MTW 5-6 years ago. There are SAP, JHI and Gothik FK. IMO, three best infantries. Every one loses from one and wins another, but I can't remember whether it's GFK or JHI that obliterate SAP. I do consider SAP the best infantry, and they are pretty cool with that number of 96 :D