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Boys, my Polish Brothers. I beg you. No hussar wings! It's a myth that hussars used such wings like your "winged hussar late". You must have seen these winged hussars in Museum of Polish Army. Wings at hussar armors were added in XVIII/XIX century.
Guys, of course some kind of wing appeared from time to time, but they weren't added to armors. Rather to saddles. And there should be some feathers on helmet. This would be realistic, but it's tour mod ;)
Any chance of a campaign about Poland and the region in XVIII century?
Great mod, one of the best mods for RTW. Cheers
Campaign is unlikely on RTW engine.
Besides currently the work is suspended - the guys are mostly students and have exams to pass...:beam:
Maybe if the mod proves to be popular enough it will get some support before MTW2 project is done.:inquisitive:
To Camillus and the "With Fire and Sword" crew,
I agree that extant samples of hussar "wings" mostly appear to be items that were attached to the saddle and not the armor although the Royal castle at Warsaw insists that some were made to be fixed to backplates as well...if supportable would be indicative that tatar 'ropings' were no longer the reason the wings were worn in these later editions. Indeed, the original reputed main function of the wings (beyond pagentry, fright and the truly mad noise they make in a charge - you would not underrate this if you have participated in such a mad rush of cavalry laden with feathers) was to prevent lassos from easily encircling and removing the rider from the horse. The wings would not prevent this in any way were they not attached to the horse!
The period from the Union of Lublin (1569) to the end of the Commonwealth (1795) is replete with contemporary both foreign-written description and examples of tapestries graphically depicting Polish hussaria with wings prior to the 18th century. I have actually seen one in Portugal, and I am aware of at least another 16th century one still extant in Italy. As I write this, I am looking at a reproduction of a painting "Entry of the Wedding Procession of Constance of Austria and Sigismund III into Cracow" ("Stockholm Roll") (detail) after 1605 which I have framed in my den, which has just such a group of Hussaria. Since by 1609 Sigismund had moved his Swedish warmongering ways to Warsaw, (he laid claim to Sweden's crown and frittered away much of the Comonwealth' stength that would shortly be needed elsewhere) and the painting was known to be completed before this, I have to think there were indeed units of this type at least in the minds of contemporary foreign recorders by late 16th century at the latest.
Whether only one unit or several had the winged feature in common, or whether this only existed in a smattering of individuals in one or more units; it is truly some of the notoriety and romantic myth common to the age's western perception of the Commonwealth's exotic weaponry and circumstance. Did all heavy infantry from Venice have nice, fluted armor? No? Probably not, but that's what you get when you play MTW2 because a shapeless, characterless mass of men with clubs and sticks that looks like all the other shapeless characterless masses is not what you hope you have been spending all that time upgrading to get...
Given that the Mod's objective is to achieve the "flavor and ambience" - the feel of the region and time is given further color by the name they have chosen. If choosing Sienkiewicz's title (in English his Polish historical trilogy is called "With Fire and Sword") adds not enough romance to the interpretation the mod seeks, clearly one has not read the Nobel prize winning author. Were the reader to look carefully at the Polish family names chosen by the modders they would see the hand of the famous writer.
Perhaps equally entertaining is to imagine which version each of the players (indeed modders as well) may have read of this trilogy, published, as it was, after the dissolution of Poland. Written by a Polish proto-nationalist with versions in each of the three sections of then erstwhile Poland (Prussia, Russia, and Austria-Hungary), revisions of all types in all parts of the world with diverse political agendas still remain.
Heh! Loads of laughs, hope I can get the MTW2 version to work when it comes out, I will be very very glad, as will my brother. I have constructed one bleeding edge machine so far that plays MTW2 with both hands tied behind its back and once I have recovered from vacation will build a second for lan-ing.
The poster above with Davies' "Gods Playground" has my respect. This is an excellent resource. While I only own the first volume (the modern era is not of interest to me), I can attest to its fairly objective tone and academic qualities - and criminy, the detail will choke the life from anyone who insists upon it!
Please pm me with any question or source material from this time and region. Please note that I do not have extensive information for Walachia or Moldavia, but I do know where to find it.
It is written.
Al Jabberwock
"the original reputed main function of the wings (beyond pagentry, fright and the truly mad noise they make in a charge - you would not underrate this if you have participated in such a mad rush of cavalry laden with feathers) was to prevent lassos from easily encircling and removing the rider from the horse. The wings would not prevent this in any way were they not attached to the horse!"
It's also a myth that the wings made a lot of noise. Cavalry didn't generally make 'mad rushes', they made disciplined attacks and the Hussari were very disciplined.
What made the supposed strange noise associated with a Hussari charge was most likely the fluttering of their very looonng pennants. Very long.
If the wings were attached to the back, the it would be impossible to make certain overhead sabre movements. However, the Hussari's second weapon was a long and thin sword, a mini-lance more or less (and the turks had one too, but the Polish one was thinner and longer), used only for thrusting at targets, therby eliminating problems of using a saber if also having a wing or two attached to the rider's back. It is possible that wings were attached to a rider's back, but I bet they were little used, with wings attached to the horse being more common and no wings at all being yet more common. Wings on the back would require additional strength and effort from the rider, therby adding to fatigue and loss of stamina and endurance, and that strength and effort is put to better use in other ways in a battle.
Chris
Husaria do boju:D