What would YOU do? (Ep.1)

Hey guys! I'm starting a thing on this website called "What would you do?" I give you a situation from M2TW and you say what you would do. Ready?

Situation: Your forces are surrounded by elite infantry on one side, heavy cavalry on another, and a mix of archers and infantry on the other. They've cornered you at a river which cannot be crossed without a raft or naval transport. Your forces consist of 150 infantry, 100 cavalry, and 100 archers. To make matters worse, the enemy has sent reinforcements (gunpowder units to be exact) just in case you manage to break loose. What would YOU do?:balloon2::balloon2:

P.S. If this goes against any rules or regulations, please let me know and I'll stop it right here. I'm positive it doesn't but I'm just making sure. Thanks!:beam:

Numbers of the enemy units? Distance? Terrain? Experience and moral in both armies? Do we carry a baggage train? Does the enemy? What are the atmospheric conditions? What time of the day is it?

Enemy units total: 2000

Distance: about 50 yards

Terrain: Grassy

Experience and morale: high in both armies

No baggage train for either side

Atmospheric Conditions: Cloudy

Time of Day: Sunset

The 2000 units is the original 1000 troops plus the 1000 reinforcements.

At 50 yards their archers can halt and fire, and their cavalry can charge us, both without the option for our army to counter in time. The unit mix is identical, but they have a 3 to 1 advantage, soon to be turned in to a 6 to 1 advantage. I would either:

1. Surrender.
2. Allow my troops to forego their gear and swim for the other shore, although at 50 yards many will be massacred by the enemy archer force. (this is only if surrender is not an option)
3. IF the reinforcements are too far away, I can order the cavalry to drive trough the enemy infantry stack and carve a path for retreat for my other men. The problem is that he enemy cav+archers will slaughter the retreating men. It could be better than the river, depending on the size of it and the rapidity of the current.
4. As a very last resort we will fight to the last man and be slaughtered.

I would give my soldiers a nice speech before the battle, set up and wait. When the enemy drew near I would charge my infantry into thier infantry and maneuver my calvary such that they could charge the enemies archers. The calvary might also have the seemingly impossible task of entertaining the enemies calvary as well. The fight would ensue as I tried to inflict as many casualties as possible until all my men were dead. Somehow, a message would be sent back to my capital of what transpired this day such that the enemy could not savor such a victory for very long! A new, more impressive army would be raised far behind the lines to avenge it's fallen comrandes and make the enemy rue the day they crushed the far inferior army with such imputence!:laugh4:

Very interesting. However, I see that doing battle scenarios are a tad too elaborate. I've moved to campaign maps, if you know what I mean. I've posted the next episode on a blog. Hopefully that will organize things a bit more.

Otherwise, keep up the good work! Really like these responses!~:)

charge all the infantry to enemy's heavy cavalry, and exploit that as breakthrough to escape (cavalry are vulnerable in close melee), use your own cavalry to keep them from wonder too far.

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cavalry are vulnerable in close melee

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Historically speaking they were not vulnerable but rather more dangerous unless one is equipped with a bill and can hook the rider off his horse. A typical heavy cavalry rider would be on a large (as in VERY FREAKING LARGE) destrier horse, which itself is a weapon. He would have a lance, longsword and a light mace, which used one handed but with the momentum generated by the horses' movement, ended up in heavy trauma to the head of the unfortunate infantry below (armour does not help vs bluntgeoning weapons that much).

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Originally Posted by Myth

Historically speaking they were not vulnerable but rather more dangerous unless one is equipped with a bill and can hook the rider off his horse. A typical heavy cavalry rider would be on a large (as in VERY FREAKING LARGE) destrier horse, which itself is a weapon. He would have a lance, longsword and a light mace, which used one handed but with the momentum generated by the horses' movement, ended up in heavy trauma to the head of the unfortunate infantry below (armour does not help vs bluntgeoning weapons that much).

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of course, you don't describe what weapons the infantry will use, if that was medieval period, I'll asume everyone had some knowledge how to create makeshift polearm from broken swords and spears

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of course, you don't describe what weapons the infantry will use, if that was medieval period, I'll asume everyone had some knowledge how to create makeshift polearm from broken swords and spears

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This will not help them in the heat of battle? In any event, unless we are talking very disciplined halberd/pike/longspear units (like swiss pikes), who are in a narrow phalanx formation AND have the range advantage on the charging lancers, cavalry trumps infantry.

Peasants with sharpened sticks can't hold a heavy cavarly charge - there is a reason the knight dominated the medieval battlefield. Sure a bill has a sharp hook at the other end, making it a sort of can opener that can pierce armour with ease, but unless your formation can hold the initial charge, you will be run down and trampled.

Another typical melee weapon was the gretsword or zweihander, but that was used for dismounted men-at-arms to break up spear/pike formations, and it also could be used vs armour if one grabbed the lower half of the blade and trusted it at the weak joints. But versus a mounted rider it was not as good.

I'm Bulgarian by the way, during the medieval period before we fell under Turkish occupation, we won a substantial victory versus the knightly elite of Western Europe. In 1205 Tzar Kaloyan baited them by sending light horse archers to fling flaming arrows at their camp, and when they finally gave chase, were lured in a boggy marshland. There foot soldiers waited, armed with simple hooks on long poles. The combination was:

1. Pull knight from horse while it's struggling in the entangling terain.
2. Slice knight's throat while he is lying prone.

It was very effective :) However let there be no misconception that one could not get up from the grund if he fell in full plate, but there is a narrow window of opportunity.

Ok I'll stop with the history lessons for now :juggle2:

Damn, I'd try never to let such a small force be caught so badly like that! I would mix my infantry with my archers, both loosely, and march towards the first 1000 enemies, with the cavalry escorting. Then, not considering some damage I would take, I'd have my archers firing, my infantrymen in front of them, and my cavalry charging the most vulnerable spot. If their reinforcements would come from behind, I'd have my archers joining my cavalry on melee, and my infantry attacking the enemy reinforcers. I'd try to die with honor and taking most of the enemy I could with me, to Heaven or hell. :skull:

As the reinforcements are all gunpowder units I will deploy so that I can engage them first. The archers will get into a shooting contest while the cavalry charges those pesky gunners. The infantry will try to delay the main force as long as possible. If things go wrong, the cavs can make a clear break for it. Lol.

I would lead my men to a glorious death.

Die in a hilarious fire.