Nainata Monks - How to counter?

Right, the question I'd like to ask is quite plain and simple: How does one counter the Naginata Monks?

I find naginata monks & naginata samurai combo quite tough to fight, as they tend to withhold the bulk of my army, while the enemy tends to have advantage in cavalary. Having most of my forces tied in battle with the naginatas I lack enough reserves to fight the cavalry back and mostly end up loosing my general and/or archers. If I withdraw my general to safety, my units get out of the boost circle. That's a straight way for morale breakdown and as result - Lost battle.

Any ideas how to counter that setup?

PS.
Sorry for typo in the topic name >.<

PS 2.
I don't know if this is the appropriate section to ask questions, or should I have opened this topic in "Hachiman Fields"? If I committed an error, please could some mod put this topic where it should belong? TY in advance.

Unbalanced spears + katana samurai = win.. for offensive
and
Matchlock + bow monks with inspire and rapid = win for defensive.. This works on basically anything rly..

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Originally Posted by Sartori

Right, the question I'd like to ask is quite plain and simple: How does one counter the Naginata Monks?

I find naginata monks & naginata samurai combo quite tough to fight, as they tend to withhold the bulk of my army, while the enemy tends to have advantage in cavalary. Having most of my forces tied in battle with the naginatas I lack enough reserves to fight the cavalry back and mostly end up loosing my general and/or archers. If I withdraw my general to safety, my units get out of the boost circle. That's a straight way for morale breakdown and as result - Lost battle.

Any ideas how to counter that setup?

PS.
Sorry for typo in the topic name >.<

PS 2.
I don't know if this is the appropriate section to ask questions, or should I have opened this topic in "Hachiman Fields"? If I committed an error, please could some mod put this topic where it should belong? TY in advance.

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Monks are not really a problem, if you look at the combatstats, the problem was the high moral.
The stay forever and can bind units for quite some time, since they fought till last men.

Its a strong unit and the advance lay more into the fact, that its a spear and you dont have to worry about cav.

I also see the counter in the sword units, I personal dont like the -5 spear retainer. It works in 22k games, but in 14k games you wont see many spears anyway. Swords are the way to counter monks.

Guns and archer is a general way to kill units, guns dont care for the unit they shoot at. But if you want, you can easy block monk spamms with guns.

Thank you both for your replies.

Tbh. I feel a bit stupid now, because swords make a bulk of my army (katana samurai, with some loan swords as auxilia). I don't use matchlocks, since I'm pretty terrible at using the short ranged ashigarus and don't have the monks yet. I guess it's my tactics that are to blame after all. Well, for now I'll try sending just a single unit against single enemy unit instead trying to overwhelm enemy with my advantage in numbers. This should help me to keep some reserves I can manage when something turns out not according to my plan.

Thanks again.

You can still charge the rear side of the monks with cavarly. I even charge the spears when they turn the backside. (It doesnt allways work tought. Or the charge works but when you try to withdraw; the cavarly refuses to understand. I usually give the withdraw order about 3-6 times per charge.)

With the monks I usually put all the melee infantry I have to keep them at one place. Then just shoot at them with bows. (They have armor of 2.) I have to say that this means own casualties aswell. My melee inf is also katanas and loanswords; the loanswords also have weak armor. But this is a trade im willing to make. Keeping in mind; the price of those monks...

I do have elite ashigaru guns and I have managed to use them "in effective way" few times. But I have to say that those where more of lucky opportunities than tactical knowledge on my behalf. The AI skrimish is extremely bad in S2TW. When playing on non flat map; the gun units seem to walk quite near to the enemy before firing. (In some cases they dont fire at all because some of the line doesnt see the enemy.) With me emphazising bows, swords and cavarly... I have enough in my hands.

(But having two of them in the army doesnt hurt. If you manage to make spear head to the blob; then the enemy units are going at your sides and you can quite freely shoot the sides. And when enemy brings his great guards to take out the 300-400 koku ashigaru... You just might have his 1100 koku unit unprotected by his spears.)