How to get a good Charge, V2.0.
edited and recompiled from the feedback to clarify some issues. but here you go, V2.0
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Getting your Calvary to actually charge with devastating results is pretty easy to do once you know how and have had some practice with it. I would also like also preface this guide by making one thing clear, charging is very touchy if not buggy and still needs some hammering out by CA. Now it’s time for an explanation of game mechanics and how to get good with Calvary and infantry charges.
First off, the mechanics for ordering your units around is a bit different in M2: Total war. If you want to get good at using the new Calvary system, you need one thing. PRACTICE! Setup a lot of custom battles and just charge Calvary into infantry to start getting the feel on how to charge; when your units will charge, spacing, charge radius, etc.
The key difference between M2:TW, and its predecessors, is the use of single-clicks verse double-clicks. It's a big difference. In all other total war games (to my knowledge and experience), the difference between single and double click only differed with the units movement speed. Single click was a slow march, used to get into position with out tiring your troops. Double click was the "Charge those infidels!" command telling your units to charge into combat.
In M2:TW this has changed a little. Single click is for "engage that enemy" and double click has become get "here" as fast as possible. In light of this, some of the way Calvary behaves in game is a lot less buggy, a lot more realistic, and a lot more user error producing bad charges (again, it's touchy at best and still needs some work by CA). But, if you understand how to use Calvary in M2:TW, this will eliminate a lot of the “user error” part and you can start annihilating with you heavy Calvary.
Also, before we get too far, I want to clear up some confusion about what the "job" of heavy Calvary is vs. light Calvary. Understanding this is critical to using Calvary effectively in M2:TW.
Heavy Calvary only works in a strait, or near strait line. This is realistic as a horse with 100kg+ of armor and rider has too much momentum to turn fast enough and still maintain an effective charge toward a unit actively trying to out-maneuver the charge.
Most people, it seems, want to use their heavy Calvary like light Calvary. This style of heavy Calvary use, was the way heavy Calvary worked, in previous TW titles. But, heavy and light Calvary are NOT the same and cannot be used as such. This is reflected in M2:TW.
So what’s the difference?
Heavy Calvary - Shock troops well suited to destroying STATIONARY groups of infantry. Effective in a STRAIT line or near strait line only! Horses bear well over 100kg in weight from armor and rider and such are bread to be huge, strong, and tough. They are not bread for speed because chasing infantry IS NOT their intended purpose. Forming up, and charging at full speed in a strait line to annihilate stationary or less mobile infantry is, however.
Light Calvary - Lightly armored horses and riders. Meant and bread for speed, and traveling stamina. Their low armor (both in protection and weight) make them ill-suited for charging directly into stationary infantry. They are much faster, far more mobile and flexible then heavy Calvary and this makes them perfect for; chasing down routing infantry, harassing skirmishers, harassing horse archers, harassing engaged infantry from their flank
Another point I want to touch on is on the realism side of how charging works, to give a case for intelligent design of the new charging system and also to give you some understanding of how to use charges in campaign battles and not just canned custom battles.
If you want to make a good battle simulation you have to bridge to gap between real people and the 3D models being hammered out by your video card. The most realistic way to do this is to factor in morale, fatigue, and an overall sense of self preservation at a troop level. This way the troops will act more like a real person and not some automaton that blindly throws himself at death just because he was ordered to do so.
Now imagine yourself at your local football field. At each end zone there is a 100 man formation of spear troops. At 100 meters apart they are well within missile range of each other and in most TW games you'd "double-click" at this point. But pretend you’re in one of the formations and are ordered to engage the other enemy. You could run 100 meters as fast as you can with 50+lbs of armor and weapons. When you got there though, your formation would be totally messed up and you would have no energy left for slamming into and then killing the spearmen that did nothing but brace for your charge. That’s a BAD tactic and unrealistic (unrealistic because doing this would cause a lot of casualties and you wouldn't do it based on self preservation), so how would you realistically charge? You would march, slowly and in formation until you were probably about 15-20 meters away, stop for a moment to close your formation and THEN charge. The same basic principle also applies to Calvary, The shorter of a distance the Calvary starts to charge, the more uniform the charge will be on impact, and thus be more devastating (assuming top speed is reached). So how does this translate into game mechanics?
Well in M2:TW, Single-clicking tells your unit to "engage" another unit. That is, they will walk/trot in formation to a point 15-25 meters away, close ranks, rally and then charge.
Double-clicking tells your units to get "here" as fast as possible. Thus, your units don't "charge" because they are trying to get to that point/enemy as fast as possible and don't have the time to set up for a proper charge. This has become a command for flanking maneuvers and light/archer Calvary pursuit orders only!
Case in point #1(try it in custom battle):
JHI vs. DGK - if you double click on the knights, the JHI start to charge. Their halberds flailing wildly about and they slam into the infantry unit and begin fighting. If you only single click for the attack, the JHI walk calmly and in formation to a moderate distance. They then stop, rally, and then LOWER their halberds to form a spear wall of sorts, and then charge! So single clicking made them engage with an actual charge, using their halberds to lead the way instead of their bodies.
Case in point #2:
GK vs. Armored sergeants. Ok so now it's Calvary vs. spears. Double clicking makes the gothic knights charge the spearmen. Most of the time, they take up their lances at the last minute and instead charge in with their swords. I believe that Calvary can still charge with the double click (as I've seen it happen) but only and if only they are still in tight formation (which is next to impossible if they have been double click moving for more then 10 meters). Single clicking for the attack, will again, make them trot to about 25 meters away, drop lances and charge! The results are truly amazing! Even against spearmen I've killed the whole unit in one charge in my tests! The only units that can take this charge are the unit's with long spears/pole arms that can specifically brace for the impact with the tips of their weapons.
So do I get good with charging? Practice with a lot of custom battles. Most importantly, SINGLE-CLICK your unit if you want them to charge! Double-clicking should only be used for flanking maneuvers where the moral damage is more important then shear impact (i.e. your infantry is already engaged and you want your light Calvary to hit their flanks ASAP to try for a mass route).
Tips and tricks: once you understand the mechanics, getting good charges isn't hard, they just take a bit more time to setup then in other TW games.
Tip 1: Charge radius.
Basically, every unit has a distance between it and the unit it's engaging before it will charge (longer for Calvary, shorter for infantry). Thus if you want to run (double-click) your unit to get them in place fast and still charge, double-click move them into just outside their charge radius (this is where the practice comes in). Once just outside that radius (facing correctly and formed up), single-click and your units will charge (you can double click to just inside the charge radius, but this normally causes problems if the formation is off). The trick is to get the unit facing the right way to get a good charge as soon as possible. Issuing facing commands when ordering your units around, as well as fine tuning the facing commands while the battlefield unfolds, will help a LOT with achieving successful charges.
Tip 2: Using Calvary as an opening punch.
I've read more then a few posts about not being able to get Calvary out after the charge. You have to time it well and as soon and the first part of the charge stops, double click on a point behind them and they should be more then able to get out clean, with little or no casualties. But, you have to order the retreat almost as soon as the front line of the charge reaches its target, that way they will pull out immediately after their charge and not get hung up fighting. Conversely if there are NO units behind the charged unit, you can double click ahead of your Calvary (again the timing is key, with issuing the command as soon as the front line hits) to tell them to charge through. Beware though, if there are units behind the initial one your knights will be slaughtered.
Tip 3: How to get Calvary/infantry to charge effectively again.
Basically you have to retreat the Calvary as in #2 above and set them up facing the enemy again, and start the single-click process all over again. Sometime they don't even have to be facing the enemy unit, if you just withdraw them to the edge of the charge radius and single-click, they'll turn and you can get a good charge.
But to truly use the Calvary effectively again after an initial charge, you will have to STRATEGICALLY reposition them outside their charge radius facing the enemy you want to charge again. In previous total war games, Heavy Calvary had the mobility of light Calvary and could be used a lot more rapid fire. This has changed and they are a lot less mobile and flexible in M2:TW. After a charge it will be a WHILE before you can realistically expect to maneuver you heavy Calvary to a position where it can do a lot of damage and not kill itself.
Think of heavy Calvary in this way if it helps you visualize how to use heavy Calvary:
Imagine the heavy Calvary as a giant infantry battering ram. The "parts" to the battering ram are the Knights and the "assembled" battering ram is the knights in formation. The advantage to this, is that, the parts of the ram are self mobile and so, can break down, rapidly move, and quickly reassemble. This assembled ram is like huge Castle gate ram in that it uses a huge amount of kinetic energy to destroy everything in its path, but can only transfer the energy in a strait line, and obviously needs to be fully assembled to work. So to use this “ram,” you have to assemble it facing its intended target, with enough room to build up to maximum momentum, and then charge the "ram" (your formed heavy Calvary) into your stationary (or less mobile) target. Once the forward momentum of the ram is broken, the “pieces” of the ram (your knights) can dissolve and the reform the ram again somewhere else. But, for the ram to be effective again, it has to be set up so it can transfer its energy in that strait line again. So the pieces of the ram have to be told to set the ram up in a good strategic location to maximize its effectiveness. You are the one left to tell the pieces where and how to set up the ram.
The reason your Calvary has to be well formed before it will charge, has again to do with trying to be more realistic (on CA's part) in terms of self preservation. An ill-formed band of knights charging headlong into a mass of spearmen equals death for the knights. On the other hand, a tight group charging in unison equals death for the spearmen. I think a lot of the "buggy" AI comes from the fact that people are giving their troops orders that the AI feels is suicidal when it looks at the quality and facing of its formations. Try actually maneuvering them into formation before giving them orders to attack, the AI seems to agree with this a lot more.
It seems that the days of point-n-click heavy Calvary “god mode” days are over and we actually have to strategically maneuver our forces about to make them effective. The other is a more arcade style of play and truly isn’t at the heart of the simulation style TW series (a 250+ turn, 50+ province campaign of empire building is NOT arcady). I’d still however, like to see it included as an option in a future patch for those who don’t want to learn the new system. But, as for me, even being a little buggy at the moment, I’d never go back! The new charging system is not only more realistic, it forces you to actually maneuver your forces and think strategically about placement and facing. It’s a load more fun once you understand how to use it.
In conclusion, I'm surprised you’re still reading. Hope this helps!! I think the biggest problem with M2:TW is the fact that CA changed a lot on how battle mechanics and campaign map interactions work and they didn't bother to tell us (or anyone) what or why. So were pretty much left to feel that what we are expecting to be there that isn't, is a bug. Without ever knowing what (if any) intelligent design was behind the change, let alone knowing how to use the new system.
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Originally Posted by Kobal2fr
, but Puzz's statements finally helped me realize what one of the core points was I was trying to make in the previous thread but wasn't able to visualize. My apologies in advance if I ramble here a bit.
Re: How to get a good Charge, V2.0.
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