Mafia V: The Family Strikes Back [Concluded]

[Csargo]

Vote: The Evil Donut

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Vote: The Evil Donut

Who is this evil donut and why are you voting him?

[Reenk Roink]

First of all this explains everything...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Well, this was my first time being Mafia, and I wanted to make it count. I quickly developed a persona which I always wanted to do, and christened him “The Wanax” This was to add a bit of “Reenkness” to the game, while at the same time, obfuscating and confounding a lot of things. I actually hoped for people to bicker about The Wanax and they did; they even lynched a guy for it! I added a few things about him (grape hat) to build his character, but none of these things would have ever even remotely pointed to me. While I was implicated as a “historian” for EB (just a beta tester) and my posts in the Monastery previously before (in Mafia III), this “Wanax” thing was a very obscure reference in the first place, and I didn’t expect it to bring problems for me later.

“Wanax” is the title of Mycenaean high king who is either semi-divine or has a connection with the divine. They lorded over their fortified citadels and palaces. Now the word “Wanax” went out of use for kings after the end of the Mycenaean period (it was still used in Homer to denote Zeus as the high king of the gods) and the word basileus or chieftain became the new word for the tribal chiefs. Even the prominent basileus of the Dark Age societies was just called that. The story of The Wanax wanting to reclaim his lands means just that, he wants to bring back the former glory of his palace citadel which has denigrated into this farming village.

One important aspect about my character is that I gave him a European theme. I used common British spellings by adding “u” after “o” and making my “z” an “s”, as well as using European diction like “flat” for “house”.

I also changed how I used quotes and my writing style.

My partner, Seamus Fermanagh, and I got into contact quickly, and we had the ideal amount of communication. We both planned our kills, and informed the other of them beforehand, and proceeded to let the game’s progression determine our kills. I think our communication was perfect as could be. Seamus was a great partner!

We had two main worries which we began to address before the game started:
1) The end of game worries… (weren’t we right? )
2) The detective…
Of course, Sasaki Kojiro and Kommodus became troublesome later, but that was essentially unpreventable.

First round was essentially random. I killed UltraWar because he was the first on the list… Of course, people started nagging me about abstaining, courteously, and I very nearly made an early exit. I resolved to never do that again (the novelty was getting old too) and luckily survived. I was worried about all the attention I received due to that incident, but also took comfort in the fact that people who nearly get lynched early on are usually forgotten about.

I was worried about Pannonian’s behavior by the second round. He seemed like a detective with his analyzing behavior, and so I evilly decided to kill my benefactor. Seamus got rid of Evil_Maniac From Mars for the same reason (suspecting a detective). This round, it was Banquo’s Ghost who took the heat for my “Wanax” thing, and everything was going to plan. I also began planning a possible detective alibi at this time, and was going to see how it panned out in the crucial endgame.

Round three saw more of the same style. theRTWguru had revealed before, and he quickly became an enigma to me. We decided to be cautious and take him out then; Seamus got the honors. As for me, I took aim at Sasaki. People have criticized me for this, but I was certain that I was doing the right thing then, and even in retrospect with all the trouble Sasaki caused, I stand behind my decision (particularity because I don’t think anything would have changed if I didn’t kill Sasaki). Frankly, I savored that kill. It also started the streak of a particularly creative and outrageous stretch of kills (sabotaged camera, Swedish cocktail, strangulation by mouse cord, and cannibalism by Trix-crazed children). Seamus also began his Bible themed kills, thus edifying his own persona. Of course, oddly enough, I was named the “bible-thumper”.

I decided to finish off Kommodus at round four. This would get him on my tail later, but frankly, I knew he was going to be more active as the game progressed in the critical end stage anyway, and so I really don’t regret killing him. A Kommodus without a vote is better than a Kommodus with a vote, and most people actually get less active once they’re killed. My reasoning was solid and I stand behind my decision (though I wish Kommodus would have kept playing M2:TW).

For round five, I decided to employ a stratagem to further compound the situation. I let The Wanax rest for awhile and knocked off AggonyDuck. Of course, I gave him a death concerning MP.

It was the period between round five and six where the entire game exploded into a deliciously juicy web or manipulation, deceit, and all around playing everyone. I feel so villainous and yet it was tremendous fun. I actually preferred this kind of loss to the alternative of winning without having been able to do all the things I did (of course, winning while doing all the things I did would be the best, but you can’t always get everything you want). Kommodus named me as a likely Wanax. Clever guy he was, but Reenkmaistro did have tricks up his sleeve. I quickly used my reveal as a detective. By this time, I was all but sure that the real detective was theRTWguru, so I did this confidently. I put forth my “investigations”, showed my “PM’s”, and argued my case passionately. Surprisingly, I convinced Kommodus enough for him to PM me. He for the most part, believed me and my deceit. He also began to argue on my behalf!

Of course, there was also Sasaki. Like a “rabid dog” he attacked me, giving all sorts of reasons as to why I was guilty. I argued back, and hoped that by pushing a sort of vendetta, I would entertain the others with the display and prevent them from concentrating on important issues. Of course, his case was weak against mine, and I knew I had a good chance to survive a lynching. Crazed Rabbit and Xiahou would naturally be against me, but that is only two. Others like Kagemusha, Craterus, and, Don Corleone believed me and my spin around.
However, I decided that it would be best for me to die this round. Why? Well, I knew that death would give me more validity, and also allow me unhampered opportunity to manipulate and deceive people. I sent a PM to Seamus, telling him to cast the crucial vote. What an ironic way to leave the game, having your own partner kill you. It was a sacrifice, but it was necessary.

I also played the martyr part, knowing that my reputation would be important when I was dead.

One thing remained very dangerous though: Kommodus. He had sent me a PM saying that Ignoramus and Seamus were his prime suspects in that order, and they were who I should investigate. The fact that Kommodus had Seamus on his targets worried me, and the possibility of Ignoramus being a test (someone who Kommodus thought innocent, but wanted to see if I would implicate him) added to my decision of allowing myself to be lynched (so as to keep Kommodus thinking I was detective without having to take his test).

In fact, though at the time, given the circumstances, I was certain I had chosen the right course of action, in retrospect, this would have been a decision that I would take back (with the gift of foresight)…

The lynch came, and Seamus was sent another Wanax kill (The Wanax can never die, only the actors who play him ). Round seven was just crazy. I have never lied so copiously or convincingly in my life. I used emotional manipulation as well, with sappy sob posts and PM’s that “nobody ever listened to me”, other posts emphasizing my martyr status, and of course, the detective appeal. I had basically all the villagers behind me at this point, and even Sasaki became convinced of my detectivehood. We all know how Kommodus fingered Seamus, and he was about to die. Initially, I supported the death as well (to sever all connection between me and Seamus). Then, after Crazed Rabbit and Xiahou had cast their votes, I brought my final stratagem: the CR-Xiahou tandem. Actually, it really was uncanny how closely together they voted, but yes, I had been planning this since round six. I vehemently posted against them, sending PM’s to everyone to change their votes. I told Dutch_guy and Craterus to “stop fighting and unite against a common enemy”. It initially worked, and in quick succession, it went from 3-0 to 3-3, but two things didn’t happen. One Ignoramus never responded. This was fatal as I was sure he would join my side. Two, Don Corleone didn’t buy it. I didn’t expect him to, because of Seamus voting for him in the first place, but I tried anyway (he was my only hope).

Well, you basically know the rest…

We couldn’t pull it off in the end, and the incredible difficulty of General Hankercheif’s game remains. It is a great challenge though, and probably the most fun for Mafia to play.

I’d like to:
1) Thank GH for hosting yet another great game.
2) Thank Seamus for being such a great partner
3) Apologize for my deceit and manipulation, and if I was ever terse with anyone. It was just The Wanax talking.

[Csargo]

Who is this evil donut and why are you voting him?

Sasaki=Evil Donut

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Sasaki=Evil Donut

Noooo I don't even like donuts.


Great write up Reenk. It seems so obvious now...gah!

[Kommodus]

...

...

...

...I'm still waiting for the real ending to all of this.

You know, the one where we've all been had by another great GeneralHankerchief jest, and the mafia have actually pulled off a victory!?

...

...hm.

Ok, allowing myself some cautious optimism, look at what else, besides the curse of Kagemusha, held true in this game...

Kommodus and his Amazing Numerical Methods!

Now, to be sure, I did the wrong thing plenty of times. Reenk Roink, that was one heck of a fake reveal. While not completely convinced, I was convinced enough to attempt to save your life for one more round - even after my numerical analysis had picked you out. Fortunately, good 'ol Sasaki had my back, and bolstered the case where my confidence faltered. He did the same in the case of Seamus when I was forced, repeatedly, to admit how shaky my conclusions were.

BTW, my PM to you, in which I asked you to investigate Iggy and Seamus, were partially an attempt to see how you would respond. You were right to suspect that I didn't completely trust you.

Great game, everyone! Reenk Roink and Seamus Fermanagh, I think you both did a tremendous job as mafiosi. It is a really difficult job, I know.

Thanks again to GeneralHankerchief for another splendid installment! As I've said before, no matter how many mafia games there may be, and how cleverly they are planned and narrated, the original will always be the best. I always welcome this challenging test of my analytical skills.

The method I used in this game, as I've said before, was completely new, and based on entirely different principles than the ones before. I really wasn't sure whether or not it would work, and still feel that I got a bit lucky. When I first had something worth revealing, Reenk Roink, Ignoramus, and Seamus Fermanagh were my top suspects. Later on, Ignoramus fell off this list, leaving the two mafiosi.

I have further enhancements planned to this method, which will hopefully improve its speed accuracy. My first method (vote indexing) was too unreliable for continued use, and my second method was partially dependent on being able to see activity in the profiles of players, rendering it slightly unfair (and susceptible to invisible mode).

This method, however, relies only on information publicly available in the thread, so it is both fair and powerful. Unlike in Mafia IV, where I promised never to use the method again, I will use this again. It is defeatable, so to the future mafia I say: bring it on!

Again, thanks for the game everyone! Congratulations to the successful village!

[Kommodus]

I decided to finish off Kommodus at round four. This would get him on my tail later, but frankly, I knew he was going to be more active as the game progressed in the critical end stage anyway, and so I really don’t regret killing him. A Kommodus without a vote is better than a Kommodus with a vote, and most people actually get less active once they’re killed. My reasoning was solid and I stand behind my decision (though I wish Kommodus would have kept playing M2:TW).

Your reasoning was solid, Reenk - it's true that I have lost interest in some games after getting killed. However, this time there were a couple of things going against you:

1. I had just been killed in Csar's game, and to die so quickly in both games, well, it kind of irked me. I had hoped to be active in one game.

2. I had a partially completed system - one I originally hoped to use in GF2, but hadn't finished.

Basically, I really had been all caught up with M2:TW before you killed me. However, after reading of my untimely death at work, when I went home that evening I proceeed straight to my computer without delay and proceeded to finish writing the program.

BTW, I actually really liked the way my death was written about. While my real philosophy doesn't actually correspond with the one I "expressed" in the story, I liked the idea of dying a "clever" death.

So... thanks for a great death! And again, great game - as I said, you did have me mostly convinced. I was sure my methods had at last gone wrong. Ah well - maybe next time!

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I admit your Numerical methods baffle me Kommodus. They're deadly accurate. It's funny you should say that, you bolstered my confidence in my methods quite a bit...I didn't think I had enough of a case to go after him until you named him with your method.

Presumably they could be beaten by someone who acts like a townie...which they should be doing anyway. If I'm mafia again I hope I can pretend that well

[Reenk Roink]

Thanks for the complements.

I hope everyone liked their kills. I wanted to go all philosophical and yet absurd. My last kill was written up actually. It had some dialogue about Hume (last of the three British empiricists: Locke (Kommodus), Berkeley (Csar), Hume (didn't get a chance ). The kill method was just silly.

[Kommodus]

I admit your Numerical methods baffle me Kommodus. They're deadly accurate. It's funny you should say that, you bolstered my confidence in my methods quite a bit...I didn't think I had enough of a case to go after him until you named him with your method.

Presumably they could be beaten by someone who acts like a townie...which they should be doing anyway. If I'm mafia again I hope I can pretend that well

Actually, I plan to soon write up a summary of all three methods, with some explanation - though not quite enough to give the mafia the information they need to avoid detection.

This third method will probably be my last truly "new" method, as it has lots of room for tweaking and adjustment. It is probably the most difficult for the mafia to avoid. Methods #1 and #2 had relatively straightforward ways of being defeated. This one, on the other hand, sets a trap that the mafia fall into unconsciously, without realizing what they are doing. They could be caught by it even if they knew precisely what it was.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Here's my game "diary" for your review.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

From the perspective of Seamus

First Night

Got the nod from Hanky tonight and learned of my partnership with Reenk. A couple of brief PM’s later and we’d decided to just tap a couple of victims – no real rhyme or reason. Had my daughter (aged 4) pick a number from 1 to 10 and another from 1 to 3. She picked 7 and 3, which worked out to the 7th of the 3rd decade (27) so Moody got the chop from me. Nothing personal, just business.

Started scheming about a counter reveal or other dodge should it be necessary. I’ll swat up an idea or three and run ‘em past RR and GH.

First Day

Sigurd opened up the discussion and got a bandwagon going on himself – at least a small one – though a lot of folks abstained. Reenk abstained courteously as per usual, and I sniped at it – as per usual. EMFM, in abstaining, phrased it “an innocent” – possible detective. Barring better info or a lead from Reek, he’ll buy my next offing.

Idea for “false flag” – setting up a false PM for me as a “secret” doctor and staging a false murder on Reenk later in the game. Have to run it past GH.

Oh well, GH says I can’t do a fake failed murder – back to scheming.

Meanwhile, Hepcat lost the vote and will exit stage left. Earlier commentaries were correct, you really do spend the first round or two hoping its anybody but a mafioso. I think we’re in trouble with Reenk. Xiahou went after him purely for the abstain thing at first, and Duck just for kicks – but Reenk’s voting response got X-man’s wires fuzzed, and he’s not the type to give ground easily. Tough one to ponder.

Second Night

Sent my kill orders off to Hanky. Goodnight EMFM – your phrasing did get you selected for my attention. Reenk has noted that Pannonian will not be feeling at all well soon. Reenk too is hunting detective. We shall see.

Day Two

Now wondering if I should take Guru’s confession seriously. It’s not orthodox, but constantly posting investigation results would have an effect of its own. I’ll check, but he may need silencing. Banquo is getting wagoned – not quite sure how the wanax is killing him but it is. Okay, it’s a little later in this long round and now DivWind and BG are tied at 3. So far, Reenk seems back under the radar – but X-man has yet to weigh in.

The Tie is fine with us, of course, as no Mafiosi are on the list. I let Sasaki convince me to vote Banquo. This is unlikely to deter Sasaki from trying to lynch me if he starts to believe I’m hinky, but maybe I can delay that threat just a touch.

Night Three

Reenk PM’d to say he was going to do for Sasaki. As far as I can tell, this won’t have any posting impact – unlike myself or Kommo or Iggy, his own demise won’t slow Sasaki much, just deprive him of a vote and confirm his innocence. Still, we have to get him anyway, and relatively early might throw a bit of red herring around. I’d already told Reenk that I’d planned to take Guru down.

Why Guru? Well, his “confession” wasn’t likely to be true, but he seemed so interested in ending up dead that it was hard to deny him that (especially as I had no idea who was more likely to be a detective than he) – plus, it let me throw some stuff in the game with the quotation from John. John 16:24 “Hitherto you have not asked anything in my name. Ask, and you shall receive, that your joy may be full.” Since he asked to be murdered, he received.

Still worried about the end-game. With numbers narrowing, suspicion must trend my way. How to defuse/delay it? Reenk seems in the clear – because Xiahou was off eating turkey? If so, we’ll take it.

Day Three

Man, I was just doing a little “Pulp Fiction” style Bible quotation. Guru asked, and he did receive. Folks are reading a lot into it. Probably have to add one to the next kill – more work. The unblinking eye symbol was and is the logo of the Pinkerton DETECTIVE agency – no more to it than saying I’m hunting detectives. Didn’t mean to cause confusion with that. Still, the goal is to be as close to un-patterned as I can get with the kills, Guru fit for that. If we fall into a rut, then the pack will be on us quickly.

Sasaki now taps Reenk for jumping in quick – dang he is sharp. RR has jumped in quicker than usual for him twice now, and Sasaki has his antennae out and functioning. I’ll follow on with Sasaki’s peck at Zalmoxis. He’s giving me a nice lead in for my vote that I don’t have to overplay. If that’s bait for a trap, I still think I can side-step that one.

Night Four

RR said Kommodus was next. Might be a useful kill since Kommo is bright and has, so far, participated less posthumously. Hopefully more payoff than with Sasaki on that score. I picked one of the more frequent contributors based on post count who had yet to draw any real suspicion – Prole. Since the Bible quote was such a hit, I thought I’d add another, but Prole hadn’t done anything silly like Guru so I just picked one of the lady authors to make the female connection thing (weak, I know). Picked Judith over Esther since it’s apocryphal to some and might stir things up more. Judith 13:10 “And she struck twice upon his neck, and cut off his head, and took off his canopy from the pillars, and rolled away his headless body.”

Day Four

Wow! Husar opens discussion and draws a wagon! I’ll sit back on this one and vote off-target. Town’s doing our work here. Weak wagon at the end, but enough with all the non-voters to kill him.

Night #5:

Doc Bean draws my attention tonight. He’s been active this game and I can hammer the discussion down a bit with his death, since his participation usually drops off. Used the physician heal thyself line for a quotation – just playing off the “handle.” Reenk took out the Duck (I’d stayed clear of that, figuring Reenk would like the chance to do for Aggony, based on earlier comments).

Day #5:

The killings made little splash, but then the debate started with Csar accusing Iggy. Others were suspicious of Disco. I just played this straight – ignoring that I’m the bad guy, and just voted for the lurker I’d have gone after as a townie after backing off of the hit on Csar. I scanned things just before bed and leaping catfish Kommo has named Reenk. No preamble no explanation, just here’s what my research shows. Whatever technique he uses – research, stats, or frimping tarot – he’s got some tool there. My style has been WAY different then Reenk, so I guess we’ll see how soon I’m tumbled. Sheesh – I think the townies will have this one. We needed both of us AND a little Wog action to close things up with the best hope of success. Others will follow this lead hard.

Hmm. Ended up with a tie-breaker that killed Disco. Reenk is fighting hard for his life, using the classic “I’m really the detective” ploy. The very fact that he did it piecemeal should torpedo him, but he has verve and cran both, perhaps he will pull it off. Every round he can keep alive is one longer for me to dodge trouble – and so far they haven’t twigged me yet.

Night #6

Crapola. Was going to take Don C. out – using a GF reference – but Reenk wants me to kill Sigurd. He thinks he can get Don C. lynched and possibly play up the detective role for a while, since Kommo can’t pin down his discrepancies exactly. I’ll play along, he’s been a reliable partner thus far and my exposure is minimal. Sigurd;s handle lets me find my quotation quickly – I’ll use the older name for Revelation to frustrate – with a dragon being cast down. Now let’s see if Reenk can do it.

Day #6

Wow! So far Reenk has picked up votes only from the unvoting dead. The one’s who should be stringing him up are either taking out after Don on casting about on their own. What an impressive display of brinksmanship on Reenk’s part. I will probably vote for his death to ally suspicion a bit, I just have to work it in less than obviously. Went for the analytical hammer on him – my usual approach anyway – and it helps the analysis to know he really is mafia.

Night #7

Reenk bought the farm like a trooper. We set it up so that I was the hammer – might as well get the most mileage from the inevitable. Reenk was not going to get past CR or X-man. I’ll execute the remaining pair he declared innocent (Kage & DoH), using a forwarded wanax death for Kage (thanks Reenk!) and my own usual for Destro. His quotation will be “Against you I will send destroyers, each with his axe: they shall cut down your choice cedars, and cast them into the fire” from Jeremiah. Hopefully, this will buy a round or two at other’s expense. Still think I’m gonna fall one short:

These kills make 7; One lynch makes 6; Two more kills = 4; One more lynch = 3

Gotta get by both of these next lynches to win. Tough.

Day #7

Doesn’t appear to me that I’ll make it through. Kommo is correctly characterizing me as off-norm (not by a bunch, but I’m sure the discrepancies exist). Sasaki is, therefore, at me like a terrier – he’s happiest on the attack (and he’s good at parsing meaning drat him!). In an interesting irony, my vote to condemn Reenk on the round we felt he was a goner is now coming up as ammo against me since I lynched the “detective.” Too funny. Under this level of scrutiny, I can be 98% on track and still get the axe. Reenk is playing his end of it for all its worth, but I am sort of hamstrung. If I defend myself too strongly it proves my guilt. If I defend myself inconsistently at all, I’m guilty. This is even tougher because I am, of course, the evil mafia scum. Vexing times at the end-game.

Note to self – this is why detectives get lynched so readily. It is extremely difficult to be perfectly consistent in all of your responses without being openly honest and completely forthright from the outset (which gets you murdered quickly). Catch-22.

Reenk’s work and my defense (mixed as it was) has been enough to create a tie. Unfortunately, I think Iggy will vote with me (I have some small chance here) but any other vote change – with the possible exception of Don C -- will come against me. If the votes are opened to the dead, the votes will CASCADE against me. I therefore suspect that the jig is up.

Reenk is a staunch fellow to work with. I’m kicking myself for the inconsistencies in my own effort. Need to be scrupulously attentive to post count, post brevity, percentage analytical v bantering posts, number of active votes and the content of all PM’s. All must be consistent or you will be twigged and gaffed. In the end-game its you versus everyone and the everyone only have to keep track of 4/5 names. Tough odds.

Afterwards:

Mafia wins are going to be sparse for some time. Kommo’s method is not flawless, but give him 3 or 4 rounds of data and he’s likely to nab you. As the field narrows, you have a very great difficulty staying out of the line of fire. False detective reveals seem to be a useful tool, but I suspect the tolerance for those is waning. Mafiosi need to work on a few dodges to get better at it.

This was fun, and challenging, and frustrating. A good game win or lose. Thanks to the General for hosting it. Thanks to Reek for his wanaxing support. Thanks to all of you for an enjoyable if insurmountable challenge….insurmountable this time.

I look forward to Hanky's write-up of this. He should have some good points for us to integrate as well as some strong commentary from his GM perspective. Thanks again all!

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Actually, I plan to soon write up a summary of all three methods, with some explanation - though not quite enough to give the mafia the information they need to avoid detection.

This third method will probably be my last truly "new" method, as it has lots of room for tweaking and adjustment. It is probably the most difficult for the mafia to avoid. Methods #1 and #2 had relatively straightforward ways of being defeated. This one, on the other hand, sets a trap that the mafia fall into unconsciously, without realizing what they are doing. They could be caught by it even if they knew precisely what it was.

I think you're right about the challenge to the mafia. As near as I can figure it, you would have to have your own posting style:

counted by overall number, general category, word count overall and by category, and the number of times checking the thread per day

so that you could be less than one SD off your "norm" regardless of role, and all of that IN ADDITION to the specific content of your posts which would have to be:

consistent with past style, wording, and mechanics, AND

not accidently including "revealer" tag words/phrases that signal your role.

Strangely enough, this probably makes Sasaki the ideal mafioso since his voluminous posting, aggressive style and veering humor give him a great baseline from which to play. Scary thought that.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Nice write up Seamus :cheers:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Strangely enough, this probably makes Sasaki the ideal mafioso since his voluminous posting, aggressive style and veering humor give him a great baseline from which to play. Scary thought that.

Heh, I'd like to try some day. Haven't really had a chance, in TGF1 I didn't have a style associated with me and could sit back and bandwagon...plus the town wasn't very good at this back then. Cosa Nuova I got named the first round...but honestly my strategy wasn't that smart, both my allies got caught (by you :/ ).

I still hold that it should be possible to fool Kommodus's system by simple doing just what you would do if you were townie. Of course that's what's so hard about being mafia. And you'd have to target your partner if the situation arose...heh.

I do think your mistake was in killing off certain people. I pm'd with Kommodus and Sigurd a lot knowing they were innocent. I'd have been wary if they were still alive.

[Crazed Rabbit]

First of all this explains everything...

Heh, I'd seen that video a couple days ago and was going to post it the next time you abstained.

Ditto on killing Sasaki and Kommodus. When you guys did that, I knew Sasaki and Kommodus were innocent and could trust them completely.

Furthermore I definately wouldn't have voted to kill off Reenk. The mafia could have voted for and taken some other player out, and you guys would've had one more round with two mafiosos.

Kommodus' new system will certainly present a challenge to future mafiosos.

Crazed Rabbit

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Hmm now that I think of it, I do have a way to beat Kommodus's method. I think I'll keep it to myself though :P

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I still hold that it should be possible to fool Kommodus's system by simple doing just what you would do if you were townie. Of course that's what's so hard about being mafia. And you'd have to target your partner if the situation arose...heh.

I think its possible too, but I suspect it'll require a LOT of self research so as to be able to keep your profile close to baseline. Kommo is no fool and if he's got it properly charted, simple inferential statistics will show significant deviations up quickly.

I do think your mistake was in killing off certain people. I pm'd with Kommodus and Sigurd a lot knowing they were innocent. I'd have been wary if they were still alive.

I took out Sigurd at Reenk's request -- he was trying to frame someone and get off the hook. He wanted you dead -- I'd have probably waited a round or two. Having you there at the beginning of the endgame would help a notch -- I think.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I think its possible too, but I suspect it'll require a LOT of self research so as to be able to keep your profile close to baseline. Kommo is no fool and if he's got it properly charted, simple inferential statistics will show significant deviations up quickly.

I would think if you were acting well enough those would all fall into place. Wouldn't have to know your posting time, just post naturally and it will be natural.

I took out Sigurd at Reenk's request -- he was trying to frame someone and get off the hook. He wanted you dead -- I'd have probably waited a round or two. Having you there at the beginning of the endgame would help a notch -- I think.

Well it was a gamble I guess. I rarely trust Sigurd. Funny story, the very night you killed Sigurd this was my PM to GH:

My bets are on Sigurd and Reenk. Or maybe not. Arg.

Sasaki

[Crazed Rabbit]

Edit:
Double post...sort of...

Crazed Rabbit

[Sasaki Kojiro]

9 minute delay? Lol.

[Reenk Roink]

Yeah, in retrospect, the thing I would have back is the Seamus lynching me. It did seem like a good idea then, and I knew that I could be more persuasive dead than alive, but since Kommodus already had Seamus in sight, and Ignoramus was nowhere to be found, it didn't pan out.

I was also really hoping Don C would be the suspicious guy he was for awhile but it didn't pan out. At the time it seemed right...

Sasaki I would keep just for the novelty of the kill.

Oh, and to answer one last mystery:

The Dutch_guy reference was due to me sending in a kill for him, but then changing to Csar. GH just overlooked one. You see, I was really hoping to recruit Csar and use him as manipulation bait, so confident was I that I invoked his name; but he was too skeptical, and The Wanax showed in Kommodus's murder how he deals with skeptics...

[Kommodus]

I think you're right about the challenge to the mafia. As near as I can figure it, you would have to have your own posting style:

counted by overall number, general category, word count overall and by category, and the number of times checking the thread per day

so that you could be less than one SD off your "norm" regardless of role, and all of that IN ADDITION to the specific content of your posts which would have to be:

consistent with past style, wording, and mechanics, AND

not accidently including "revealer" tag words/phrases that signal your role.

I think its possible too, but I suspect it'll require a LOT of self research so as to be able to keep your profile close to baseline. Kommo is no fool and if he's got it properly charted, simple inferential statistics will show significant deviations up quickly.

Er... I think you may be slightly missing the point, Seamus.

My task in this game was actually quite difficult. The thing is, everyone has their own posting style, and they all deviate statistically each game. Picking out the statistically significant facts from the big jumble of numbers proved to be rather more art than science. Had your statistics matched that from previous games too closely, the red flags would've been raised just as much, if not more.

The thing is, it's not enough to simply look for people who are deviating from past behavior, since as I said, everyone does that to some degree. The tricky part is looking for mafia-like behavior in the numbers. There's the rub - what exactly counts as mafia behavior? What do you look for, and what useful metrics can be devised to measure such a thing? There's simply no single precise measurement to use, and there's always more metrics to try. When you have this much data to work with, looking for patterns in it isn't easy.

Ultimately, anyone will do better with data that is well-organized and easy to query. (Ya learn a thing or two when you work with databases as long as I have.) That's what helped me in this game - rather more than simple numbers.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Sure beats my method of re-reading p-a-t-i-e-n-t-l-y




I did quite enjoy my kill Reenk. Although Kommodus's kill with with the buxom henchwomen (They WERE henchwomen! ) was great as well.

[Kommodus]

Oh, BTW, to both our mafia boys: great writeups! Very nice to see mafia carrying on the tradition of keeping a diary as the game is played. It definitely helps to resolve everything at the end.

Sasaki: What an interesting person you are. I guess, were I in your shoes, I'd prefer the buxom henchwomen as well.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

btw, GH, if you were wondering how this game didn't reach 1000 posts like TGF2, I decided to play my cards a little closer to my chest this game...63 pm's sent and recieved :p

[GeneralHankerchief]

btw, GH, if you were wondering how this game didn't reach 1000 posts like TGF2, I decided to play my cards a little closer to my chest this game...63 pm's sent and recieved :p

Eh, no worries. 900+ ain't bad at all.

[Pannonian]

Thanks for the complements.

I hope everyone liked their kills. I wanted to go all philosophical and yet absurd. My last kill was written up actually. It had some dialogue about Hume (last of the three British empiricists: Locke (Kommodus), Berkeley (Csar), Hume (didn't get a chance ). The kill method was just silly.

Was my death supposed to imply I was full of it?

Pannonian was found dead on his field. Every orifice of his body had been stuffed with manure.

[Kommodus]

My last kill was written up actually. It had some dialogue about Hume (last of the three British empiricists: Locke (Kommodus), Berkeley (Csar), Hume (didn't get a chance ). The kill method was just silly.

Hey, if you've got it written up, how about posting it? I'm curious to see how the game would've ended had we failed to get you guys.

[Reenk Roink]

Here ya go:

Victim’s was at home biting his nails timorously. He had witnessed his friends and neighbors murdered horrifically at a steady rate, until the numbers had dwindled to what he could count on one hand. His Bible lay unopened, as he did not want to see any potentially prophetic verses, and the farmer had burned and salted his vineyard, because of The Wanax.

It became not a question of if, neither was it a question of when. The question was: who? and how?

The answer had arrived through Victim’s front door. Standing at the doorway was a tall shadowy figure, wearing a wide-brimmed hat with grapes on it. The Wanax.

Victim quickly stammered: “The phasgana – I want the phasgana!”

The Wanax chuckled as he ate a grape: “The matter is not for you to decide.”

Victim continued to plead: “Please, just let the phasgana cut me and finish me off quickly.”

The Wanax replied: “Foolish man. How can you be so dogmatic to claim that the phasgana will cut you?”

Victim was confused: “Why commonsense of course.”

The Wanax replied: “Such miniscule intellect. Now, while I grant you, we may perceive the cut following the strike of the phasgana, we certainly do not perceive any connection between the two, and it follows that it is incorrect to apply any causation. Hume has made this clear.”

Victim replied: “What! That’s just retarded. Everyone knows a blade causes the cut.”

The Wanax replied: Idiot fool… Very well, continue to hold your superstitions of causation for the short life you have left.”

Victim saw his end, but he posed his final query: “Why? Why did you do all this? We said we would give you back your land.”

The Wanax answered: “The reason will be of no use to you, but as I think very highly of myself, I shall tell you anyway. You see – my gregarious father was The Wanax of this village and the land beyond, and everyone in the land was content and prosperous. I was raised in his image, to be just like him, to rule wisely and kindly. That was my destiny; until an incident changed everything. You see, I had a best friend, who used to go to school with me. We used to be inseparable, so close we were. But one day, in the middle of class, all that changed…”

The Wanax paused. Victim asked: “What? What happened?”

“HE FARTED IN CLASS AND EVERYONE THOUGHT IT WAS ME!” The Wanax boomed, voice full of rage and sorrow.

Victim could swear that tears began rolling down the cheeks of The Wanax, although the void remained static as ever. Intrigue overcoming his fear, Victim asked: “Who did it?”

The Wanax composed himself as he answered: “The legendary founder of your village – TosaInu.”

Victim’s body was not found and the way in which he was killed was unknown, as there was nobody left in the Frontroom, and the Frontroom itself had ceased to exist.

[Craterus]

Vote-changes from me helped to exectute both of those.

Good game, everyone.