Avoiding The "Twenty Settlements" Betrayals

**Kiron Drayga** · 12-23-2008, 09:47

Hey y'all,

So in the past few weeks I've been getting back into M2TW's main campaign, generally concentrating on Italian factions. I usually play on H/H or M/M.

Anyway, strangely enough, I seem to do really well until I hit what I label the "Twenty Settlements Roadblock." Around the time I possess 18-24 settlements (cities/castles,) I find that nearly all my allies -- even allies who've supported me throughout the entire game, allies with reliable reputations and allies I have Outstanding relations with -- begin backstabbing me like crazy.

They'll even siege cities in which I'd have the advantage in automatically winning the battle if I simply sallied forth!

It's aggravating to get so far diplomatically only to have all my alliances ruined, but I've found this "Twenty Settlements" roadblock to operate like clockwork. I'll expand to possessing twenty or so settlements and I can depend on my neighbors immediately responding with futile sieges on my settlements, no matter the odds. So far this has happened with Venice, Milan and Sicily factions, different circumstances (and different attacking neighbors) every time.

How can I avoid this and keep the peace? The game isn't nearly as fun when every other faction seems to suddenly decide to backstab you and you end up fighting against the world.

**glyphz** · 12-23-2008, 10:41

Originally Posted by Kiron Drayga

Hey y'all,

So in the past few weeks I've been getting back into M2TW's main campaign, generally concentrating on Italian factions. I usually play on H/H or M/M.

Anyway, strangely enough, I seem to do really well until I hit what I label the "Twenty Settlements Roadblock." Around the time I possess 18-24 settlements (cities/castles,) I find that nearly all my allies -- even allies who've supported me throughout the entire game, allies with reliable reputations and allies I have Outstanding relations with -- begin backstabbing me like crazy.

They'll even siege cities in which I'd have the advantage in automatically winning the battle if I simply sallied forth!

It's aggravating to get so far diplomatically only to have all my alliances ruined, but I've found this "Twenty Settlements" roadblock to operate like clockwork. I'll expand to possessing twenty or so settlements and I can depend on my neighbors immediately responding with futile sieges on my settlements, no matter the odds. So far this has happened with Venice, Milan and Sicily factions, different circumstances (and different attacking neighbors) every time.

How can I avoid this and keep the peace? The game isn't nearly as fun when every other faction seems to suddenly decide to backstab you and you end up fighting against the world.

Indeed. I had an early fun campaign (HRE) ruined by unreasonable AI, where after playing saintly diplomacy in Europe, and securing a foothold in the Middle East w/ a feel good crusade

, my allieS suddenly decide to all jump on me, and most of my core settlements divided among them...

No update has really fixed the problem, thus mods are your only salvation. There are quite a lot out there (in TWcenter and here in The.Org

**Mek Simmur al Ragaski** · 12-23-2008, 12:39

I don't think it's possible to keep peace, so in my personal experience everytime I get backstabbed by an ally I murder the lot of them. Hit them so hard they won't know what has happened, then call for a ceasefire. Or if your not that kind of person, keep attacking them until they are destroyed.

**Kiron Drayga** · 12-24-2008, 00:42

Originally Posted by glyphz

No update has really fixed the problem, thus mods are your only salvation. There are quite a lot out there (in TWcenter and here in The.Org

Any recommendations for a mod that only impacts AI diplomacy (or only has a minimal impact on other facets of the game?)

**glyphz** · 12-24-2008, 03:14

Originally Posted by Kiron Drayga

Any recommendations for a mod that only impacts AI diplomacy (or only has a minimal impact on other facets of the game?)

I'm guessing VanillaMod (by FactionHeir) might just be what you're looking for.
To learn more, check here:
Forum: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forum...ysprune=&f=250
FAQ thread: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=97599
Read me: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=97520
FactionHeir is usually around, and can accommodate any questions you might have

**John_Longarrow** · 12-26-2008, 01:32

In general, the AI decides to go after you once you are big enough to take out the neighboring faction easily. Since most of your neighbors will be about the same size/strength when you hit this point, they all start attacking you at about the same time.

From a game play standing it does make some sence. After all, if you are able to take them out in a game of "Total War", teh assumption is you will as soon as you have your troops in place. The way to avoid this would be to have a "Total peace" option in which you can win by creating a large enough alliance block. This is not in the game but would reflect the situation in Europe that lead to the first world war.

**Zarky** · 12-28-2008, 12:47

I don´t take allies, and those who I ally with are only allies until I have crushed my enemies on opposite fronts. Dont trust anybody and kill everyone

even pope

**Lorenzo_H** · 12-29-2008, 10:53

Originally Posted by Zarky

I don´t take allies, and those who I ally with are only allies until I have crushed my enemies on opposite fronts. Dont trust anybody and kill everyone

even pope

Agreed to the fullest possible degree. Expect to kill them all, everyone, on all sides.

The AI factions don't know whats good for them anyway. Recently as Scotland on VH/VH, I was rampaging down through England, proceeding to wipe them out for my French allies. I conquered Caen and Rennes and other such places that the English had in Northern France, effectively saving the French. They then betrayed me, I thought, alright fine, and proceeded to take Paris, Bruges and 3 other French territories, wiping out several of their stacks/generals in the process. They were then begging for peace, and it was very satisfying for the offer of "Ceasefire and 3000 florins for 13 turns" still appear as a "generous" on the diplomacy screen. Denmark later attacked me, so I sacked Antwerp with reinforcements from Nottingham.

**Sir Beane** · 01-06-2009, 16:57

I'd like to recommend Lands to Conquer. It's a fantastic mod for A.I and diplomacy that does an extremely good job of making the opponents behave more realistically.

As a bonus it also does a great job of keeping the overall feel of the game the same, although it changes more than VanillaMod

Using Lands to Conquer you certianly don't seem to get backstabbed as much, and friends tend to stay friends for much longer. It's also a more challenging, balanced game.

It was made by Lusted, and so good that CA hired him!

**TheSeated** · 01-06-2009, 19:52

Wow CA hired Lusted? Thats awesome and a good move on CA's part. They need people like Lusted, just like every company needs people who are passionate about what they do.

**Sir Beane** · 01-06-2009, 19:59

Originally Posted by TheSeated

Wow CA hired Lusted? Thats awesome and a good move on CA's part. They need people like Lusted, just like every company needs people who are passionate about what they do.

He pops by every now and then, under the name Jack Lusted. He's definitely working on Empire, as a bug tester I think.