Screenies

[Furious Mental]

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=164359

Jeah!

Game looks nice, although I certainly I hope it isn't being designed on the basis that every battle should be fought like that. I mean, troops in column exchanging musket fire?

[Raz]

I mean, troops in column exchanging musket fire?

What's wrong with that? In any case, if they are in-game screenshots and not promotional-heavily-edited-in-photoshop screenies, then that really is candy to my eyes.

Edit: On closer inspection... I'm a little worried, why is it that there's cavalry waltzing out into the midst of the firefight? Also, agreed that the units look a bit odd in their formation... They look like they've come straight out of a roman training ground the way they are deployed...

[Martok]

Here's a more direct link, by the way:

GamesRadar

[Csargo]

In any case, if they are in-game screenshots and not promotional-heavily-edited-in-photoshop screenies, then that really is candy to my eyes.

Were you expecting something else?

[rajpoot]

Well, they look nice, I specially like the smoke and shadows. Anyhow, a sign that ETW is still breathing, and CA hasn't switched over to make Tellthegamersnothing Total War.

Edit :
1. The battlefield in the zoomed out screen does not look any more expansive than the ones in M2TW
2. Like Raz has mentioned, the formations seem as rigid and unnatural as in RTW.

[Furious Mental]

Coumns were basically for rapid movement across the battlefield and charging. The 4-2 man line maximised firepower. This was central to infantry tactics throughout the period and if the game doesn't reflect this land battles will just be plain ridiculous.

[Matt_Lane]

CA have already said we will get column, line and square formations. The troops in the screen shots aren't in any of these, they are just grouped together but apart from this I'm well happy. I like the look at the lighting and shading (My graphics card isn't though). The smoke looks good and I was pleased to see Horse Artillery included. Unit size looks to be about the same as M2TW although I had hoped we might see sergeants as well as officers.

[PBI]

Bit surprised that the soldiers all seem to have different uniforms. This made sense in M2TW, when I believe each man was responsible for providing his own equipment but surely by the 18th century uniforms were, well, uniform.

[Furious Mental]

The ratio of width to length in those pictures is that of a 'closed column'/'colonne serre'. Despite what the word 'column' would suggest, a column could be wider than it was long. By definition a 'line' is 1 to 3 ranks deep, or 4 staggered ranks- the whole purpose of it is to enable all ranks to fire simultaneously. There were probably still some armies that were still using matchlocks and compensating for the slow rate of fire by using deep formations and countermarching, but by the time the game began Gustav Adolphus's linear tactics were well established all over Europe. In any case I see no evidence of countermarching in those screenshots.

But apparently 'lines' and columns' are not distinct formations after all and it is up to you drag and drop them. So I strongly suspect that 'column' will offer none of its historical benefits in terms of momentum and shock on attack, morale, mobility, manoueverability, or speed of conversion into square, most likely making it completely worthless.

[Raz]

Have you not noticed that these days - Graphics > Gameplay...
(Joking, joking... )

[CBR]

Coumns were basically for rapid movement across the battlefield and charging. The 4-2 man line maximised firepower. This was central to infantry tactics throughout the period and if the game doesn't reflect this land battles will just be plain ridiculous.

CA has so far never managed to make realistic troop movement and deployment in earlier titles so why should it be different in ETW.

Im sure there is a column special formation with uber bayonet/melee bonus but column for movement and maneuvering...lets just say I will be pleasantly surprised if that happens.


CBR

[Furious Mental]

They have already said that there isn't. Apparently a 'column' is just a line that you don't bother to drag out very far. No different to the way it is now then.

[Wandarah]

They look mighty fine if you ask me.

But you didnt.

Perhaps you should think about doing so, though. It's not easy being alone, here in the dark, talking to myself and making friends out of used tissues and cucumber rinds.

[Veho Nex]

Time for another upgrade....

[Rhyfelwyr]

Wandarah, what do you think of those screenshots?

They look nice graphically. Although that first screenshot isn't exactly how I imagined a ETW-era battle. Are they trying to form a Roman Manipular?

Also didn't the troops in the front row lie down. Then second row kneeling, third row standing? Plus the formations seem strangely deep.

[CBR]

Also didn't the troops in the front row lie down. Then second row kneeling, third row standing? Plus the formations seem strangely deep.

Early part of this era the front rank was kneeling (at least according to drill) but later on it wasnt used.


CBR

[Furious Mental]

A kneeling soldier presented a smaller target, but it was found that once soldiers were kneeling they didn't want to move. You could also have two ranks kneeling and two ranks standing, but staggered. Staggered ranks were awkward however, especially with backpacks. A deeper line also meant more casualties from cannon balls.

[Templar Knight]

They look nice for Alpha, although the formations should be tighter

[Mailman653]

They look stiff to me, but it is a work in progress after all. Very nice to see finally.

[Belgolas]

Guys stop complaining. This is only an alpha version and a CA representative said that there are men the kneel and there are officers in later versions. Plus this is probably a multilayer battle where everything is controlled by humans so that means if you want to have a line formation you can. Just because there isn't a line formation in those screens doesn't mean you can't drag to make your own.

Remember this is alpha.

[Merdan]

Jack Lusted means that the first lines can be kneel, i hope the realism is better then in the other tw-titels. These first shots give me the answer. I buy the game!

[Anonymous II]

Bit surprised that the soldiers all seem to have different uniforms. This made sense in M2TW, when I believe each man was responsible for providing his own equipment but surely by the 18th century uniforms were, well, uniform.

I agree on this one.

[Zenicetus]

Battle damage looks nice on the sail combat views, but.... ugh, they're still showing ships sailing directly into the wind:

http://static.gamesradar.com/images/...screenshot.jpg

Either that, or the U.S. ship is in irons, which would be suicidal tactics at that range. It's also in the middle of a battle with most of its sails furled??

The blocks of soldiers in land combat look weird to me, too. Very RTW/M2TW-like, and not at all what I expected.

[Divinus Arma]

I noticed some grape shot damage to the hull on one of the ships. If that was materially created as a result of in-game dynamics rather than simply a painted appearance on a typical ship, than hoo-ray!

The formations do seem awfully deep. They look like Rome units with Guns.

And why would the ENTIRE unit, eight rows back, be "at the ready", in a position ready to strike? It reminds me of the Rome charge when the entire unit would raise its weapon above its head and robot-army run to battles. I hoped they would have "revolutionized" past that.


Otherwise, I am happy to see some land battles. Looking pretty good all-in-all. This will be interesting.

[Furious Mental]

Actually the only time armies looked like card board cut outs was on the parade ground. On campaign it was make do or mend. On top of that, a lot of men eschewed uniform changes and used whatever suited them.

People are saying 'oh it's alpha don't be so harsh'. Well the game is supposedly going to be released in less than six months.

[Wandarah]

Wandarah, what do you think of those screenshots?

They look nice graphically. Although that first screenshot isn't exactly how I imagined a ETW-era battle. Are they trying to form a Roman Manipular?

Also didn't the troops in the front row lie down. Then second row kneeling, third row standing? Plus the formations seem strangely deep.

i think they look totally sweet.

the formations can be adjusted as they've always been able to in the past.

once again, i would like to reiterate - they look totally sweet.

[Furious Mental]

That is my gripe with it. Apparently rather than getting a specific column formation which actually offers any advantage we just get to drag out a deeper line, which is totally pointless.

[PBI]

Maybe they just haven't gotten around to doing the formation commands yet?

Although, in all TW games so far there has been a tradeoff between increasing the width of a unit to maximise its firepower, and increasing its depth to make it more robust. I don't see why this can't be the same in Empire, the differences are more just stark but the tradeoff is the same.

[Furious Mental]

Well a developer said in TWC: 'Just they way they're deployed. Square is ingame, and line and column are just a matter of unit depth and width'

The way I interpret that comment is that there is no specific column or line formation. Frankly I find that quite disappointing because I very much doubt that they will have programmed a deeper formation to have many of the advantages of a dense column, to whit:
- It is very reassuring to be in a big group;
- It moves and manouevres much faster;
- It gets much more momentum behind it when charging;
- It is scary to have it charge at you;

[Belgolas]

Actually the only time armies looked like card board cut outs was on the parade ground. On campaign it was make do or mend. On top of that, a lot of men eschewed uniform changes and used whatever suited them.

People are saying 'oh it's alpha don't be so harsh'. Well the game is supposedly going to be released in less than six months.

well we don't know the exact date of these photos. What if they released these photos to the public but they are 6 months old.