MTW-Redux Beta Released!

[western]

Hi Axalon

Good news about 3rd edition, and about the number of Redux downloads

I think one reason that we don't get more discussion on these boards is that you've kindly encouraged people to take Redux and customise to taste. It's hard to comment on the Spanish fix, for eg, if you're playing with a Spain with several additional provinces, or a different starting position. The area of common ground is reduced.

But I have to admit that customising never matches the visual quality of what you put out there, which means that I am definitely keen to see what you have done.

Have you considered map changes for 3rd edition, at least to make use of the extra 8 provinces available before you hit the ceiling? That's one bit of customisation I always find hard to resist, if only to make progress slower and harder in a few key areas of the map.

[Axalon]

Hi Wes and all redux-players,

The release of 3rd edition will be delayed a few days because I want to run some decent tests first before I release it. As stated before, I did plan to release 3rd edition today but unfortunately I simply have not had the time to do any proper and overall testing so that’s why I delay the release. For this I am sorry, but it is better and safer this way. So, a few more days guys….


- Cheers
-----------
Wes, maybe I’ll comment on your remarks once I have more time on my hands.
It is well worth discussing further so I’ll definitely try to do that later.

[Markuzzi]

I just tried out the Redux today and wow its pretty amazing. The game has a whole new feel to it. I have not read through every post in this topic but have read a fair share. Just today from playing I have had a few bug issues...

First, I tried English on expert and launched a crusade into Lithuania. When the the icon box of Sanctioned Crusade thing popped up I clicked the 'check' and it crashed. I tried a couple more times and it kept crashing, then managed to fail the crusade. Whenever I clicked the window--crash. Also this was my second crusade. The first one worked out fine.

So I thought I would try out the Spanish on Expert. All was good until a certain point where in I think it was 765 ad I click end turn and it crashes. I reloaded 2 saves and the auto save and it would crash at that point.

So just now I thought I would try out the Poles and got to around 734 ad and I click end turn and it freezes at "thinking"..

Im not sure if these are common problems or if I am missing a patch? But the game suddenly seems unstable for instance random crashes by hitting esc in game to bring up the menu. My plain MTW worked fine and I haven't even had a save corrupted yet. So I am not sure if that is what I am experiencing right now.

Either way great game mod I really like it and I hope I am just missing a patch or something.

I have MTW v1.1 + Redux 1.0b + Spanish Fix (a).

I think thats right? I saw the superfix thing but I think thats included in the 1.0B?

Any suggestions?

[Markuzzi]

Disregard this post. I just found the bug section...

[Axalon]

Hi there Markuzzi,

As customary here at the Org. I bid you welcome to the Org and especially so to the province of redux in MTW-land. Feel free to stick around here as much as you like. But above all a welcome to the little world of redux and all the sinful princesses found there (not to be trusted by the way). Enjoy your adventures there and I am glad to hear that you like this version and that you are already busy killing pixels – redux style. Feel free to post in anything reduxy you want to share with the rest of us. As for your problems, I have some possible answers on ‘em over at the debug area (the place to be for such stuff). That is, to the best of my abilities with the limited info you provided.


On a general note:

To all you redux-players out there; 3rd edition will be delayed a bit further since I eventually decided to include even more additional material in this edition. On top of that it appears that I mistakenly deleted a weeks worth of work as well (various unit and weapon calibrations) so that don’t speed things up much either. It really is annoying when it happens – even if it is very rare. “You” got roughly 10 gigs of bits and pieces all over so it’s really hard to keep track of everything - let alone have it all under control.

Thus the release will be delayed because of all that. Besides we’re all in the middle of the ETW-craze so I see little point in releasing anything during all that ETW-hysteria and will thus wait for it to settle down a bit. After that and more importantly when I’m done with all extra stuff I want to include in this edition a new release date will be announced (and I will keep that date this time). So, that how things are in case someone is wondering why 3rd edition is not released yet.


Oki, that’s it for now.

- Cheers

[western]

Hi Axalon

Thanks for the update - I feel your pain

I'm sure I'm not the only one who has been watching this thread for the release. I'll keep watching and hope it all goes smoothly from here.

[Faenaris]

Greetings Axalon, Westerner and all the other redux-players. It's good old Faenaris, the "n00b" again. Work is slowing down a bit for a couple of days and as such, I had some more time alone with Axalon's masterpiece. And as they say in the McDonald commercials: "I'm lovin' it."

Axalon, you're right about lurking meaning a slow death for a niche mod like yours. Many TW players haven't played MTW and many won't do it simply because it isn't "snazzy" and "bling-bling" enough according to today's standards. As us veterans know, MTW is way better than RTW and M2TW (although they are enjoyable, it just isn't in the same league in my opinion) and I will be playing this game for as long as I can. As luck would have it, this old scrawny school laptop can actually run MTW and thank the Lord for that.

I don't want to blow my own horn, but I hope you all would allow me to give my first impressions of the Redux mod. I hadn't really played the campaign much because of a lack of free time and while I loved it already, I couldn't quite comprehend the scale of Redux. Now I have a couple of hours of fun with it and I'm starting to "feel" the splendour of the mod a bit more. And since some lurkers might decide to get the mod after reading some first impressions, I thought: “Faenaris, write away!” And so:

England rules the waves ... if She has ships

A fine aspect about the Redux campaign is that you have a LOT of turns to play around with(around 500 if I'm not mistaken). I'm a slow and methodical player who uses the sledgehammer technique. I turtle, build up and once ready, I swoop down on my enemy and knock em out in a few turns using a rather small but advanced army. No skirmishing and all that, no sirree! So, when I booted the campaign, I went for little old England. Island, pretty safe from invasions (in the beginning at least), opportunity for rebel-smashing, ... What more could you want as a first time Redux player?

Being the chicken that I am, I opted for a Normal difficulty. I never quite liked giving the AI bonusses ("what do you mean, those peasants whooped my king?!") and while I could overlook the Hard difficulty, the Very Hard was just a bridge too far. Besides, it's my first game and I wanna try out the mod a bit. Thus said, thus done.

England starts off with Normandy, Wessex, Mercia and that's about it. Alrighty, let's build up. A quick glance at the unit roster made me drool. Light infantry, regular infantry, longbows, feudal longbows, four kinds of light cavalry, ... What to pick? I had read that Longbows dominated ranged warfare in Redux, so, 4 feudal longbows coming up! The units were rather small and their upkeep seemed rather low. Some units had an upkeep of 15 florins! My memory fails me a lot of times nowadays, but I do think I remember having to pay a lot more upkeep in the original MTW. Then again, in the original MTW, you made too much money too fast and as such, paying upkeep was a moot point. Besides, the lower the upkeep, the larger the armies of the AI will be and massive battles is what the audience wants! And me too. Héhé.

As for the buildings, I was glad to see that the turns required for the buildings were more sensible. One turn for a low-level fort or blacksmith, that's the spirit! While I'm a patient man, clicking turn after turn just to see a building finished isn't exactly fun either. Reasonable build times are the keyword. Sure, a citadel takes over 12 turns and costs 12000 florins (which is a lot in Redux), but that's normal. It's a huge castle. But in MTW, you had to wait around 10 turns to get a simple castle running. Not fun.

The economy in Redux is much more agrarian-based, so, I went nuts with the farm upgrades. 1 turn for 10% improvement, 2 turns for 20% improvement, ... It might seem pointless at first, but after upgrading my provinces to 100%, my monthly income went from 800 and no armies to 2.3k with 2 full stacks. I'm quoting from memory, so the actual digits might be way off. :)
So, after I got those 4 feudal longbowmen, I noticed a lot of mercenaries were available. Not the kind of units everyone can produce, but real mercenary units like Mercenary Spearmen and such. Even some Norse ones, but those were pricey. So, I went on a shopping spree, got me a nice stack of them with some light infantry of my own mixed in. And I invaded Wales.

The rebels ran away from my glorious army and I started building up Wales. Flushed with victory, I invaded Northumbria. They ran away again. I consolidated, disbanded the mercs and trained two regular stacks. Light infantry, regular infantry, some longbows, ... and Feudal Champions. Five soldiers in a unit. A bandit stack appeared in Mercia and I wanted to see those Champions in action. So, 5 champions versus 60 light spearmen. When I ordered the charge, they crashed into the spearformation and even when taking them head-on (not a smart thing to do when the other guy has a long pointy stick and you don't), they butchered them. Not a single casualty and 50 dead spearmen. I was whooping with joy. Those champions are a treat. There is even a 1-man unit of champions. Must be Chuck Norris.

Anyhow, things were running fine. I raised a third stack in Wessex because France was getting itchy. They grabbed Brittany and Flanders. “Flemish spearmen? WOOP WOOP!”. I'm from Flanders myself, so I beamed with patriotic pride to see my countrymen represented in Redux. Thanks, Axalon! Anyway, I wanted to get Scotland under my heel, but the turn before I launched the invasion, the Frogs attacked! Indeed, a full stack of Frenchies dropped onto the British Peninsula! Quite outrageous. No way they are taking Scotland, even if they were rebels. My land! So, I declared war without blinking and invaded Scotland.

They simply had some Flemish Spearmen, some Frankish spearmen and two Royal Knights. What could go wrong? My combination of Regular Infantry, two longbows, some regular archers and light infantry would make mincemeat out of them. And I had a unit of Feudal Champions too! Piece of cake, right? Wrong. The battle was long and bloody and I just made it out. A full stack was grinded into dust (even the Champions bit the dust too, which shocked me after their first victory) and I had to ship over the other stack in the North just to keep Scotland pacified. Provinces are really harder to keep in line, but that's a plus. No more easy invading with just a few units. :) I also noticed that Longbows really outrange normal archers (which is ... normal) and the rate-of-fire was excellent. Volley after volley after volley. Granted, the Flemish didn't go down that easily, but they were armoured to the teeth. But my Longbowmen really tore the Frenchies a new one. If only they made it out alive ... Running out of ammo and being forced in a desperate counter-attack isn't good for their health. And in the end, it was for naught. The province rebelled and I had to withdraw the second stack.

I could have continued the war, but it was a test run. I decided I would increase difficulty a notch (to Hard) and try my hand at the Germans. Always had a softspot for Swabia and the HRE. So, I'm going to start that one and finish it. I'll suffer more setbacks like the Scotland Incident, but that's alright. Getting smashed by an unknown unit teaches you respect for it ... and the AI who has constructed it. And besides, this time the HRE must build-up it's empire by fighting Rebels, the Poles and the Norse. More time to expand, control and enjoy. So, Germany it is!

Wonderful mod, Axalon. Really stunning. It might seem to onlookers that I'm trying to suck-up, but this mod REALLY is that good. I played Medmod and MTWXL, good mods in their own right, but Redux takes my fancy. No more era-progression, loooooads of turns, lots of big armies duking it out, ... I can't wait to crusade against the Moors or the Saracens. And I haven't even fought the Scourge of the North, the Norse! So many things to do. I'm wishing this week never ends, I need more time with Redux, dang it!

EDIT: Also, thanks for the update about Redux 3, Axalon. I'm really looking forward to more Redux! Any chance for a "sneak-peek"?

[Faremisch]

I totally agree. Just recently started a campaign in Redux as those germans. Playing on expert. It is great fun and some 70 years into the campaign my progress is really slow. I continuously suffer setbacks and have to regroup to retake lost land. Lots of joy indeed.

[Axalon]

Hi there Faenaris and Faremisch, glad to hear you guys like and enjoy redux. A little encouragement and approval for the things you do always feels good. So thanks for that. (The best way to show support and appreciation for redux are probably to be active and post plenty of interesting stuff here in this redux forum - in case anybody were wondering that is). Anyway….

As a general suggestion to the both of you (and others); there is a new redux player-thread around the corner and feel free to post away and share experiences and questions with others right there. Perhaps things like; what to look out for in redux and what the big differences there are in comparison with the original or anything else that you guys feel is interesting for new redux-players (Feanaris; you have already started on that path in your post – perhaps you would like to do some more right there?). I would love to get that place going but at the same time I am really not the one who should be active there (I am too accustomed with redux circumstances so its probably better if such discussions are done by others on a general principle). Now, if hard-core tactics and battle-reports (AAR as it apparently is called around here at the Org.) are more your kind of thing we also got a place for that as well – the Battle Reports thread. I'll be happy to babble away with you guys or any other redux-players right there.



Faenaris: Let me start by droping a few remarks on RTW and M2TW. I fully agree with you on the RTW and M2TW thing – both are entertaining games but they can’t compete with a good altered version of MTW or plain STW. Oh boy, I could get elaborate on this but it is probably better that I don’t. To keep it short and tempered then; personally I am always amused when people try to seriously maintain that RTW (and M2TW) can compete at all with MTW or STW. They can’t – as simple as that. And this just not a matter of preference - it is a matter of simple things like functionality, stability and unacceptable loading times for a commercial game to name a few reasons as for why. In fact TW-games have probably become more and more unstable for each new title! ETW is the most unstable TW-game I have ever tried to date - I wanted to play it but ETW apparently had other plans and instead showed me 101 ways to crash in style... None of the other TW-games come even close that track-record! No, I’ll manage just fine with the “old and rusty” GFX of MTW – besides I do improve it a bit in redux. At any rate, it is not a mere chance that I work with MTW and completely disregard M2TW as an option....

Now, as for your laptop and the future of MTW. When it dies (and it will) get yourself an ATI-card. The semi old X-1xxx series should work with redux and some omega drives (if you go for XP. For win2k default drives should just work fine). Such a card should be fairly cheap. As for you writing away around here – I welcome it (but you probably already knew that). After all it’s more fun! So write away as much as you like. The new player thread is, as I said earlier, the place to post for all stuff that might be interesting to new players of redux. Discoveries, questions, opinions and tips – all from a new players perspective - things like that.

Finally, a few remarks on what you wrote then. The RX-combat system is different than the original – it is more lethal, diverse and unforgiving to the player’s mistakes in the field. Many catholic troops are highly specialized and if used incorrectly or carelessly they can very well end up with heavy losses. Also the economics is harsher and on top of that troops cost a lot more than in any other version I know about. Redux support costs might be regarded as low for some, but I feel that they are just right. Commissioning new and fancy troops should cost a lot - but providing food and maintenance for existing troops should not! Short of the Byzantines which is the one exception in redux (see post: 58). Essentially redux is tougher all over. Better AI, tougher enemy armies and way more tactical diversity also contribute to creating a more interesting and difficult game as whole. You can’t expect to get the same impressive results in redux as you can in the original (as I have said many times before). The original MTW is a lot easier to play and with a lot less crucial parameters to consider while playing it. It is all connected to things like AI, army compositions, combat system, tactical standardizations of existing units, smaller and less diverse tech-trees, fatter and friendlier economics to name some of the big reasons as for why. Some people like it like that – I don’t. As simple as that.

At any rate, I am glad that you did "write away" here...


Faremisch: I suspect a formal welcome to the Org is redundant in your case. You obviously have been lurking around the Org. before and know the drill. For what it’s worth; I offer my approval for the move to break your lurking ways. Feel free to stick around and post reduxy things here as much as you like now that your lurking days are over. As Faenaris quite correctly gathered, quantity of Verdanas is not an issue around here - after all my own posts tend get big now and then (as this one for instance). Elsewhere it might be preferred to keep posts short but that does not apply here in the "duchy of reduxmark".


Western: As for the remarks you made concerning Spain in post:271. I do agree with you. If circumstances vary the common ground for a discussion about it becomes very limited. However, I want to make it clear to you and everybody else that I would welcome a “redux modders corner” if someone should want to set up such a place here. In essence a thread for those of you who like and play upon the redux-plattform but just the same make or would like to make your own special altered versions of redux on top of it. Throw in 5000 knight orders or whatever. A place to exchange and discuss ideas, and to show others what modifications has and could be done – things like that essentially. Of course, experience shows that whenever I do present these kinds of suggestions nothing happens – so I can’t say that I expect this to ever happen (but it would be fun). Why do I even bother to try....

Anyway, as for Spain and 3rd edition of redux. I decided a few weeks back to re-draw the map for the Iberian Peninsula and it will look something like this….


This is what the Iberian penisula will look like in 3rd ed.

Now, since I am stuck with the limitations of MTW 1.1 it means that my options and possibilities for further alterations on the map are highly limited due to massive hard-coded obstacles (108 provinces might work in VI but in plain MTW - I doubt it, they won’t work as supposed to anyhow). So, I can only play around with the map so much. If I was only working with the VI-version it would be a different and easier story – but the fact is that I don’t so that’s why. And, I want both standard and VI-redux versions to be as coherent as possible – as said many times before. Anyway, if I remember everything correctly the cutting of Cordoba is hardly unique and most other versions have that as well. However, the other few things I done here might be more unusual but more importantly I feel that this will probably help out to make things less dependent on Cordoba. Which is good thing for the entire region.

Anyway, the changes of the strat-map means that 3rd edition will not be compatible with any saved games from older versions of redux. This is indeed news and it perhaps something that you guys would like to know about in advance (now you do). So there you have it. There will also be some other changes for the map but all these are on a limited (yet effective ) scale to function within the borders of MTW 1.1.

Oki, that is enough of me for now.


- Cheers

[western]

Hi Axalon

I like the look of your Spain. The Moors shouldn't be able to get into all Castilian provinces at one bound, so tucking away Leon makes sense. If you're interested (and I know you don't share all my historical hang-ups ) would be a more accurate name for what you are calling Andalusia.

Regarding the map generally, even within the constraints of 100 provinces, MTW "wastes" a few provinces in my view. What is Arabia meant to be, for example? Historically, there is only one north-south route via the coast, so I would make Arabia void (desert) and voila a spare province.

What significance did Malta have before given to the Knights of St John in the 16th century. Kill Malta. Could crusades reach Egypt by land progress through N Africa? Kill Libya.

These are the ones that are most glaring to me.

Incidentally, have you ever noticed that the AI will not raise crusades against provinces that cannot be reached by land? It will use sea transport if it happens across it en route, but it will never rely on it. So if you remove Libya and land bridge to Morocco, crusades will never aim for Morocco/Algeria/Tunisia. That's better in my view - French and Germans didn't march through Spain enroute to Morocco.

Keep up the good work. I am certainly agog to see

[Axalon]

**** Wes! That was a fast response!

It makes me happy to se some traffic around here once again. With people such as yourself, happy writer Faenaris, former lurker Faremisch and silly ‘ol reduxy me perhaps we *just* might get things a bit more active around here.

Your approval and enthusiasm for reduxed Iberia certainly is clear to me. What was the name you had in mind? Just curious here - was it Almeria? I could probably live with that name you know. I was going to go for “Cartagena castle” but I could live with “Alcazaba castle” and Almeria - if that makes the scholars happy….

As for the other stuff on the map (considering the unfriendly parameters I have to work with); killing Libya is out of the question – sorry but there you have it. It is not that you don’t raise some interesting points (as usual) it’s just that it would so seriously disrupt the entire region and foul up things big time for the Moors as well. Arabia stays as a possible and functional safe ground and last retreat point for the Saracens – since that place hardly ever get hit by a crusade or a major invasion (not by the AI anyhow).

If anything I would prefer to somehow find a good way of cutting Cyrenaica/Libya in half - I probably would do it if I got the chance – but that unfortunately requires an additional sea-region as well to work properly. And, in order get things working in the game it must be a former island to take that place which also is not connected to any other land-region - or the ships and ports won’t work as supposed to – it is all hardcoded in plain MTW you know. Now the only candidates I can think of – that are still available and possible are Crete and Malta and I am reluctant to remove either of them. If anyone of them must go it probably would be Malta. But I feel that Malta has a bit of a strategic value for the game – especially so for the player. So it essentially is a no go….

I would also consider cutting the Sahara in half as in Mauritania (west. coast) and Sahara (east, inland) but that requires me to remove yet another province and I can’t think of any good candidates for it so far – by all means I am willing to listen to further suggestions here on that note. I have already moved around and redrawn stuff in the russian region you know in order to create Couronia/Courland. And cutting Volhynia in two is also a thing I would have prefered to do as well – but as stated before; I am working with MTW and not VI….

Well Wes, what do you think about all this?

- Cheers

[western]

Hi Axalon

I see I left out what was meant to be the most helpful part of my post (because my son was "helping" add some smilies to taste ). Murcia was the substitute for andalusia that I had in mind. Independent taifa under the Almohads, ruled by the wolf king, then a kingdom until 1304 when finally incorporated into Castile. The capital of Murcia was - Murcia.

I understand your points about the map in an MTW 1.1 context. That's to say, I've never tried modding the map except in VI, so all my thoughts may be off beam for that reason. Given the options you put up, I would still say that both Malta and Crete had no strategic significance at this period. No one fought over them till 16th century for Malta and 17th for Crete.

Ignoring history and thinking about gameplay, the discussion in the pocket mod sub forum has come to the view that islands in general subtract more than they add.

Here's a second line idea just because I like putting them up and having the debate: if you have desert provinces, how about limiting what can be built there, for example by making forest a prerequisite for certain buildings and denying it as a resource to these provinces? That way you can prevent Libya having a thriving agriculture or a notable ship-building industry for example. You can also make them hard for a western power to live in by giving them high rebelliousness which is countered by a culture specific building like a ribat or caravanserai. I just enjoy the game more when there is a real flavour to different provinces as well as to different factions.

[Axalon]

Well Wes….

Murcia got too much “XL-vibe” attached to it for my taste (even if it does have a place in the history books, right you are) so I’ll stick with Andalusia and Cartagena – cause I like ‘em more anyhow. Besides most things are relative short of the names which are fixed. One can pretty easily fill in the historical context as much as one like if the names are fairly well placed on the map or in the context. As you well know, Dr. cool writes my history books for redux and geographically speaking Andalusia and Cartagena are good enough for me (and it should be fairly agreeable in a historical sense as well). If Murcia is important for you edit it in (I suspect that you already have done that in your deluxe-version of redux anyhow).

Now, I will ponder the fate of Malta a bit more, but I probably will leave it in – we’ll see eventually. Islands might be something that one can debate but I think that I’ll go with the CA position on this – for once. Islands are included because they have and create special circumstances that regular provinces don’t have and I think those things are worth while keeping. A complete removal of Islands would among other things make the naval aspect of the game even less important to consider – I am not too keen on that prospect. So I probably have to disagree with such conclusions made over at “Castle Pocket Mod”. It is a question of priorities and mine are pretty clear - I want a diverse game. Removal of all islands will only simplify and limit the variables of the game – I don’t want that.


Ok, the desert thing then. I do understand what you are saying but I’m afraid that such a move will not generate enough “bang for the buck”. The effort involved is bigger than the few gains won by it so I’ll pass. You are quite right all the same; redux do have an idle resource to toy around with. This could change if one could find some real good use for it – I don’t have a clue what that might be for the time being and thus have thought little about it. Any further ideas – I’ll be happy to hear them out (if I use any of them I’ll credit you for it)...

There is nothing wrong with adding flavour to various provinces, it is rather a question of how it is done practically and the level of effort involved for it to happen (which is also a factor for me) and what effects on the game the end result generate. As you well know the possibilities are limited - but in general - I am positive to the concept.

As for the rebellion values it is primarily a question of keeping the rebellion bug/freeze in check – if it not were for that I would probably raise all values in a heartbeat – at least to 3 all over. But now the bug is there so I am forced to be very cautious in raising them because of all that (this is mostly an issue for MTW 1.1 - this is the kind of price you pay for having an all over compatible version like redux. And, I do want that).

So, I guess it was a lot of disappointments for you this time. Still, I think the actual effects for you personally here are pretty non-existant since you will probably fiddle away no matter what I do in the default version. Eh Wes?


- Cheers

[Faenaris]

I'm not gonna "butt-in" on the finer points of geography and MTW. All my campaigns in MTW (and Redux, although the Byzantine look interesting) tend to revolve over the northern part of Europe. My opinion on whether Malta or Cyprus should be removed (or not) would be ill-informed and I will trust in your expertise on that, gentlemen. :) I am curious about the "rebellion bug" though. MTW can't handle very high rebellion values?

Also, thanks for the tips about the Ati Cards, Axalon. I'll go hunt down one of those, just to keep a "low"-tech pc handy. You can maroon me with that pc, the bare essentials to keep my alive and a copy of MTW with some Redux goodness. I'll be a happy gamer for quite a long time.

The changes that Redux makes to the combat mechanics are for the Greater Good. It all feels more challenging and you do need to keep your head in the game. I rarely had to make great strategic plans simply because I would just smash my opposition without much effort. In Redux, all the tweaks will eat you up if you are being too casual about it. The Lithuanians will eat you up too, but that's a different story. Damn pagans, coming to my lands, stealing my cattle and women... *grumble*

[bamff]

Hi Axalon

I too am looking forward to the release of 3rd edition of Redux. I have been wandering the lands of XL for some time now, and have reached that point where a new challenge is required. All of the reviews that I have read thus far have been very positive indeed, so I thought that perhaps it is to the lands of Redux to which I must ride.

Yes, I know I could have a crack at the existing version, but with the new one so close.....

Okay, in the meantime I will keep following your development posts in an attempt to prepare myself for the VERY different world that I will eventually experience!

[Durango]

Why for the love of god and his uncle's mother do you use MTW 1.1!!!!oneoneone111!!!

Your work and vision should not be held back, IMHO

I will be eager to try out Redux 3 when it comes out.

[Axalon]

Hi guys,

I am happy to greet both sir Bamff and jarl Durango welcome to these parts of the Org. Castle Redux (this sub-forum) is always open to all traveling knights, warriors and vikings alike. We got wine (mead for the vikings), meat and sinful princesses in abundance so that’s why Faenaris feel right at home around here I’d guess….


Bamff: you do what you want of course and yes the differences between 2nd and 3rd edition are substantial so if you prefer to wait for it, by all means go ahead. If you change your mind and want to brush up on your understanding of reduxed battle ahead of the release – you know were to go…

At any rate, feel free to post and hang around here as much as you like. The new player thread is probably the most interesting place for you at this point (possibly the battle & tactics thread as well). If you want, go ahead and post questions there about things you might be wondering about and if we are lucky some redux-player might answer you there (I am too tainted by redux and besides I always got the princess-union on my back anyhow).


Faenaris: Troubles with the Lithuanians eh? Nice to hear that they are doing their job! Great stuff over at the new player thread by the way, that’s just the thing I was talking about.

Now as for rebellion bug, it should be covered in the redux “readme” – “known bugs”-section. The problem is that the original game (MTW 1.1 in particular) can’t handle very well too many rebellions at the same time for one faction. The game have a tendency freeze/crash and the most famous example found in redux got be the Moorish opening bug. You can technically have sky-high rebel values (at least 9) but the chances of a freeze/crash increases with them – thus you can’t have too many high rebel values if you want stable game – and I always want a stable game. Redux got a very good track-record so far in that sense, considering the actual circumstances (the original game itself is buggy and can get unstable on occasions – particularly MTW 1.1).

ATI is the way to go as far as MTW goes anyhow. The X-1xxx should be still available here and there on the market and should not be too expensive either. Redux should work with those and omega-drives (for XP).


Durango: Hehehe... Silly ‘ol me thought it was obvious but apparently it isn’t so I’ll explain it for you (and perhaps others as well) the reasons as for why. Ok, here goes….

One my overriding goals and intentions with public redux from day one was to create a version for MTW that is/was coherent and all over compatible for all major versions of MTW. You should be able to play redux no matter what kind of copy of MTW you got. I want to make it possible for people that play on MTW 1.1 to be able to play the same game as the people that play on top of VI. That way people are able to discuss and debate reduxy things regardless what version they are running on (in fact we already have had a few examples of that in this very forum). There are of course some small differences but it is almost the same game – almost (the VI-version is still a bit tougher, hard-coded reasons in MTW 1.1).

In this sense redux is probably the only one of its kind on the planet and thus stand as unique so far in that regard. MedMod is the only other version besides redux who have compatibility to MTW 1.1, but its two different versions/games that are not even trying to be coherent the way I understand it. The strictly VI-policy have been tried and tested before - and I am no believer in it.

In fact it appears that about 60% of all redux-player use the standard MTW 1.1 edition - with the current numbers of downloads that translates to several hundred players (even if I suspect that some 10% of the total sum is people just downloading and checking out the files and really not playing redux). Even if the (roughly 40%) VI-players seems in general better in downloading fixes and keeping an optimal game going, it would be plain stupid shut down and abandon about 60% of the players just so I could have things a bit easier while working with redux. The additional limits of MTW 1.1 are a price I am willing to pay, considering the alternatives. Going strictly VI is simply out of the question – redux can not afford to do so in order to survive publicly. A few years back maybe - these days, no way. The golden days of support for MTW from the various forums are all gone - even for mods of this magnitude.

Redux is for instance still not stickied over at the TWC and it was some 8-9 months ago I set up the thread there - it has even been in the top 20 threads on that forum/section ever since. Still, it dont get the support and recognition it would get about 3-4 years ago. One might think that the staff/moderators should have by now gathered that redux is easily as worthy of a stickie like any of the other major mods that got such recognition - but evidently this is something that is yet to happen. So, it's harsh times for MTW in general and that makes an impact on redux as well, man. It's all "kindergarten" with the youngsters RTW, M2TW and now ETW that counts these days (no matter that they are pretty much inferior and thus less interesting to play). So, that’s why...

At any rate, with the release of 3rd edition the completion of the standard redux-platform *may* very well be finally realized – it would be real nice anyhow. After the completion of the platform we all could do various expansions (large or small, simple or advanced, no matter) for redux if we like. I might do a smaller expansion for redux that is strictly VI. We’ll see, but I have thought about it from time to time, smaller and tighter scope, new map, less factions and things like that. Perhaps even with a fictional or a low-epic-fantasy theme – it has crossed my mind anyhow. If not, perhaps Scandinavia or the British Isles but all this is just loose ideas at this point, nothing else. Finally, my earlier suggestions to Bamff go for you too…


Oki, that is enough of me for now.

- Cheers

[Leith]

Salutations,gentlemen:

Firstly, allow me to congratulate you on this very ambitious mod, Axalon, which, incidentally, has acquired a permanent space on my harddrive, along with Hellenic:Total War and Middle Earth TW. Secondly, I highly appreciate your continued effort to upgrade and improve the mod, with version 3 being so close to completion. Thirdly, it brings joy to my heart knowing that version 3 won't be your last effort in modding TW. Thus, "A thank you very much" is well-deserved.

Would you be considering adding a couple of new factions to the mod? Personally I wish Scotland were there since neither the original MTW nor the subsequent mods have done justice to Scotland. Since you're planning to add new provinces, perhaps adding Scotland is plausible ? For the record, Scotland is well-represented in Medieval: Total War 2 but I don't enjoy playing MTW2. I could do that myself actually but I am not sure it will be a balanced mod eventually. One thing for sure, I lack your talent in creating superbly done unit icons :) Your mod has managed to get a few lurkers to post, and that should say something :)

All the best!

P.S Life sucks almost on every single level in this country but your mod has brought some joy into my life. Thank you!

[gollum]

Which country is that Leith? Welcome to the org and the MTW section btw.



EDIT

Right Syria, i see, why does it suck so bad Leith? Unemployment or civil disorder or?

[Achilleslastand]

Been spending the last 3 weeks playing ETW........watching and waiting for Redux 3......Sadly i dont ever think CA will eclipse MTW.........Cant wait for version 3

[Axalon]

Hi guys, the cleaning of this thread and forum is no vacation! Iv'e been running up and down thru some 250+ posts (and all the other threads) and it probably took well over 2 hours! All because of Filefront - due to the supposed shutdown yesterday (We'll see how long the links I left holds)! If I would have done nothing, I fear it might have become slightly chaotic and disorderly around here! Now, we cant have any of that! So now every measily little pic is safe, sound and linked elsewhere - far, far away from the filefront disaster. Anyway...


Achilles: No worries man, I’ll release it when I’m done with it (it has become bigger and more complex than I originally had in mind a few months back. Plus I don’t get work with it in the way I would like). In the mean time either play some more ETW (If you can bare that, it crashes too much to make a believer out of me. Besides it’s essentially just a lot of M2TW with muskets anyhow) or do some good for the redux community instead and share some of your experiences with other newer redux-players over at the new player & tips thread….


Gollum: Discussing the social and political circumstances in Syria is too off topic for my tastes (you and others are free to discuss it elsewhere if you like but this is hardly the place for it). I thus forward a friendly reminder that you are welcome to post and discuss here as long as you keep it more reduxy or something that could somehow more easily lend it self to that context.


Leith: Salutations right back at you! Above all, welcome to the redux area. I did appreciate your praise here, what you wrote sure hit home, I only whish that more people were active posters here – it would be much more fun and interesting. Now, as for factions, Scotland and strat-maps….


First of all, my alterations of the strat-map is limited due to the massive hardcoded obstacles that MTW 1.1 presents in this area. Thus I can’t operate with the same “ease” that I could in VI and thus I have only done limited amount of changes. I also want the game to be as stable as possible (I am unsure about the effects of additional provinces in that sense).

Secondly, and this is also because of MTW 1.1, there will not be any additional factions in the default version of redux (as in the basic platform). The faction-colours will just be awful in MTW 1.1 and it is impossible to add additional faction descriptions as well. It might be ok for others but this is nowhere near acceptable for me. So, I won’t even consider it. And, even if I could do it in VI - I won’t since I want a coherent game regardless if it is MTW v1.1 or VI. That has always been way more important for me. Also, I pretty much covered this ground in my earlier response to Durango in previous post (additional comments regarding extra factions in general can also bee found in post:203, factions & variety section…).

Thirdly, and I said this before and I’ll say it here again. There is nothing stopping you from doing this alteration on your own; as in the Leith Scotland redux sub-mod or home-mod. The redux graphics and designs are already done. The original game also provides you with GFX you need for it. You don’t need to do additional units, the units already included in redux are more than enough to also cover Scotland as well. Thus I have virtually done all the balancing for you already. Scotland already got 3 unique units – so you don’t even have to bother with that unless you want more units there. By design you have 12 vacant unit-slots available – earmarked for just cases like this one. Use them! The castle flags, shields, unit-banners and such are also already done in VI, the demo and in historical battles files so you wont even have to do that either. All you need to do is to put everything together and perhaps give some few additional florins to the Scottish province and you are almost done. There are guides for this so use those – hell, those guides even use Scotland as an example so you really have things all laid out for you. You could probably do it all in a week or so.

So, I suggest that you do it yourself. After all, redux is probably unique in this way (as far as MTW goes anyhow), since it is internally designed to allow additional and further alterations by the redux-players. No other version for MTW, to my knowledge, is designed that way. Then, when everything works and is solid in the game – perhaps you might want to share it with others? Upload it and drop a link in this very forum! If you don’t include or use any of my material in your uploaded mod there is no problem! If you do, you must first acquire my explicit permission to use and distribute that material publicly and the best way to try and get it, is to drop me a PM and ask (however, don’t get your hopes up, chances are pretty slim that I would give it - since I had many bad experiences with such things. Sad, but very true). Still, I can’t see how that would be necessary for you to include my stuff in such a package (short of some modded/altered txt-files - I’ll probably have little objections about that) - so this should not create any problems for you ether. I am sure that there are plenty of others that would like to try such a sub-mod if you put it together. Considering the circumstances there is a fairly large group of redux-players out there, you know.

Finally, it makes me happy that at least somebody wants me to continue with further mods and additional expansions for redux - after the basic platform is done and released (hopefully that will with 3rd edition, I really would like that). I probably will to some extent….

However, once the platform stand completed it seems unlikely that I will dedicate as much time and effort to support others that play redux and there should be little need for it. When it’s done, it’s done. I could be wrong, but the kind of effort and dedication I did put in during 2008 will probably not happen again once I am done with the basic platform (because it is a lot of work). When I am done with that, all my initial goals have been fulfilled; a solid alternative version for the MTW-concept and game has been realized and it also available for the public – no matter what version they got.

At the very least, redux will stand as a possible and solid option to all other major “medieval” mods that have been released so far. In most cases these operate and are designed within the CA-templates (the battle-system or era-progressions are two obvious and typical examples of that) and thus they also inherit many of the problems found within that template (that is, strictly speaking of the problems that you can do something about). Redux provides a much needed alternative to that template and my goal is/was to make that alternative available to the public. It probably won’t happen, but it would be great if other people used this platform to do sub-mods, further expansions or stand alone mods, even if they were unrelated to the setting of redux. After all, it is impossible for me or anybody else to do something that corresponds to all tastes and ideas. The best game designer for you, are you! Redux acknowledges that and thus it is designed to be “bendable” and fairly mod-friendly and at the same time offer a solid alternative to the MTW-concept. This is anyway, my view on the redux-platform….

Oki, that is enough of me for now. Feel free to stick around and post some more around here if you like.


- Cheers

[gollum]

Originally posted by Axalon
Discussing the social and political circumstances in Syria is too off topic for my tastes (you and others are free to discuss it elsewhere if you like but this is hardly the place for it). I thus forward a friendly reminder that you are welcome to post and discuss here as long as you keep it more reduxy or something that could somehow more easily lend it self to that context.

Feel free to edit out as necessary Master Axalon.

[Axalon]

Feel free to edit out as necessary Master Axalon.

I see no need for that, I just gave you little reminder to keep it more on track and topical, that’s all. And that’s the end of it. Hopefully I will never need to resort to any such thing. Regardless if it happens to be you or anybody else….

- Cheers

[Axalon]

Well, that's enough of the green girl for now (even if I do have a soft-spot for her, I mean being green and saving the world all the time – what's there not to like?)….

Thread is back to normal again, although I did change the cover-girl for it, maybe you guys prefer a blackhair or a blond instead? Let me know. After all, that is the really important question, now isn’t it?

It appears that Filefront isn’t going to drop dead in spite of everything. That means that I won’t have to find some other place to host my files and that I still can get some accurate download-numbers after all. At any rate, all the filefront links are up and functional again. So that means that this area is open for business as usual…


- Cheers

[Axalon]

1000 downloads!

It gives me much joy and pleasure to be able to announce the happy and mighty news! It fuels me with additional faith and confidence in the project!

At some point this weekend MTW-redux passed the 1000 download marker and thus has taken proportions that are far greater and beyond what I ever dared hope for when I released the first edition of redux back in Aug 2008. Keep enjoying the redux-experience and do play 3rd edition once it will be released and available to the public.

Cheers!

[Achilleslastand]

Bought a new PC just for ETW and cant wait for redux#3......this is one of the few mods i would actually pay money for...

[Trapped in Samsara]

Hi Axalon

Just about recovered from my evisceration at your hands.

Looking forward to playing your Redux 3rd edition. Any update on when it'll be released?

Regards
Victor

[Axalon]

Hello guys and all you lazy redux players out there,

I’m afraid I got not much news on 3rd edition at this point. It’s just become a lot bigger and more complex than I originally had in mind - and progress is slow so.... I’ll get back here when I do have some serious news or new screens for it. The differences between 2nd and 3rd edition are substantial that much is clear anyhow. It will not be compatible with any older versions. In the mean time, here are some of the unique features of 3rd edition:

• The Norse will finally be playable - at last….
• New and redrawn strat-map, with new provinces
• New strategic AI (built from scratch)
• Cost adjustments
• Troop adjustments
• Various AI-corrections and schemes
• Reworked and improved animations in battle
• New “mercenary-system”
• New “happiness-management system”
• GFX improvements and plenty of it all over
• And lots of other stuff that I forgot about here.

Until I managed to get everything together you guys will have to make do with less sexier 2nd edition and the Spanish fix. By all means do keep this place active while we all wait for the release - yours truly included. 2nd edition is way better than nothing and the experiences from reduxed battle in 2nd edition will also be valid in 3rd edition as well. Anyway, there are too much people out there that have still not upgraded their games. Believe me; the Spanish Fix will really improve the entire game when applied – not just Spain! So all you lazy people out there for your own sake, upgrade right now and you won’t be sorry for it – that’s a promise.


Achilles: That kind of praise feels like the warm and firm bosom of she-hulk - real good…. Excuse me… She-Hulk?!? Where are you? I need a hug right now! One of your specials…

Victor: I am happy to find you posting here. Too many people would not have the strength to do that after the treatment you went thru. I am glad to see that you are tougher and stronger than that – after all, one can hardly expect such a thing from most people – sadly enough. So, I do welcome you here and hope that you will have loads of fun with redux once you try it out (what ever version it may be).

I also see that you have been restrictive with your posts so far here at the Org… Hehehe… Hardly unique around these parts, redux appears to attract that kind of people it seems. Don’t ask me why – because I have no clue as for why that is. Anyway, feel free to post away here if you like and let’s see if we can’t make that post-count of yours go up a bit. I do hope to see you around here some more….


- Cheers

[western]

Hi Axalon

Interesting to hear that there will be new provinces. Is that additional or moved around or both? I remember what you said about the limitations of 1.1, but it has always seemed a shame not to use the game's full potential in this area.

[Axalon]

Hi Wes,

Sorry, don't get your hopes up to high... Yes there are new provinces but we are still stuck with the total sum of 99-100 or whatever it is that makes the game happy - I dont dare break that pattern for the sake of stability. I am pretty sure you agree with me on that (remember MTW 1.1 dictates the terms here). And yes, I am totally with you - it would be nice with additional provinces but I don't dare risk it....

Oh yes, the answer is they are the "moved around"-kind....


- Cheers man