Playable factions

[Martok]

Easy, folks. Some of us should take a couple deep breaths.


As pointed out by SaFe, PBI, and others, we don't yet know which factions will and will not be playable. Until we do, it's utterly useless to get ourselves worked up over the matter. And even then, we have to remember that *gameplay* is going to be a primary factor for CA in determining which factions are playable, not which ones were the "best" or most prominent.

I've noticed this thread is starting to see a bit of chest-thumping (so to speak), despite my previous admonition back in the OP. Patriotism and national pride is normal, but it doesn't belong here in the Empire forum. If you wish to debate the merits of your respective country(ies), then the Monastery or the Backroom is the best place for such things.


We now return to your regularly-scheduled discussion.

[Tiberius maximus]

idk about all of you but i have to play the hardest faction the game will let me its just more exciting when ur always struggling to stay in the game

[Sheogorath]

idk about all of you but i have to play the hardest faction the game will let me its just more exciting when ur always struggling to stay in the game

Well, you could try conquering Europe as Luxembourg :P

"Our bankers will blot out the sun!

[Gustav II Adolf]

I've been thinking. CA recently stated again at the .com that they haven't decided on the final twelve because of balancing issues and that they will decide later this year. Why is it so difficult and why is it taking such a long time? Are they not agreeing with each other? Are they afraid factions will be too similar? It also strikes me that they refer to variety more than historical importance which fans mostly debate in this issue of choosing. A sort of gameplay vs history balancing seem to be in this. The most historically important factions might be seen by CA as too similar.

For me though I don't see this as a problem because every faction can have different units that give them a unique feel. I wouldn't want to leave out any important faction just to get some more variety since historically important factions will be more interesting to play. And I definitely hope no uber ninjas will appear to counter variety-angst. Still, of course it will be exciting to play exotic factions as well. I just wish that CA would have thought of this when first starting to make the game so that all important and some more exotic factions could be playable.




G

[The Celt]

For my first campaign I'll probably play as the British Empire since I'm of British decent.(Also, lets' be honest guys, they're probably the whole reason CA chose this period for the game in the first place.)Plus, it should be fun trying to hold on to all those rebellious colonies around the world.

After them I'll probably play as the Ottomans for awhile, and then I'll of course switch to Persia as I've been joansing to play them since I saw that screen shot of the entire campaign map. Sure they'll get the short end of the stick in vanilla(Just like Parthia & the Sassanids in RTW) but I'll be prepared with Gimp to at least give their skins a good recoloring.(I just hope CA don't give the Easterners leather faces like they did in MTW2)

[pevergreen]

I don't think so. Remember that Portugal had a global empire to look after, colonies in the Atlantic, in America, in Africa and in India (Without mentioning in Australasia, which probably won't be in the game)

Oh it will be. hahaha.

IMO America is playable for the war and for the americans.

[KingKnudthebloodthirsty]

Why cant CA just make a map of the globe. All they left out was the Far East (China, Japan, Korea, Siam, Burma, and other SE asian lands.), and east russia and australia. How much will it take to add them in? They came so close but excludes that part of the world? Those territories were as equally important as the other parts. China was a powerful nation in the early 1700s. They only declined in the late 1700s. the spice islands (indonesia) were fought over for trade and obviously, spices. Russia expanded into Siberia and in 1788, England built colonies in Australia.

[pevergreen]

Because it means more work. If they included those areas, people would complain of no factions. Which means they would have to make many more factions, which then would be complained about because they arent 100% historically accurate.

I am sure there will be a mod to give the rest of the world a shot.

[Jolt]

Because it means more work. If they included those areas, people would complain of no factions. Which means they would have to make many more factions, which then would be complained about because they arent 100% historically accurate.

I am sure there will be a mod to give the rest of the world a shot.

They wouldn't have to make a lot more factions because there were few factions to start with.

China, Japan, Korea, Indochina (Or Annam, Cambodja, "Luang Prabang/Laos" and Burma), Tibet and Far Eastern and Central Asian Mongol-Turkish khanates (Dzungar, Khiva, Bukhara and Kazakh). And these are factions out of the Indian sphere in the Far East. Five factions who could be given generic Far Eastern troops, with some unique ones per faction.

[Ignoramus]

China, Japan, Korea, and Indochina didn't play a role in European colonialism until the 1800's. As Empire finishes around 1800, it doesn't need to include them.

[Sheogorath]

China, Japan, Korea, and Indochina didn't play a role in European colonialism until the 1800's. As Empire finishes around 1800, it doesn't need to include them.

Depends on which 'Europeans' you're talking about. The Russians had contact with the Chinese in the 17th century, Japan in the 1740's. The VOC was in Indonesia by the early 1600's. The Brits and Dutch were skirmishing in the Sea of Japan for a while as well.

[Martok]

Depends on which 'Europeans' you're talking about. The Russians had contact with the Chinese in the 17th century, Japan in the 1740's. The VOC was in Indonesia by the early 1600's. The Brits and Dutch were skirmishing in the Sea of Japan for a while as well.

True. However, I believe Ignoramus' main point was that east Asia's impact on European colonialism during that time period was still relatively minimal. Hence, why that part of the world is not being included in Empire.

[Sheogorath]

True. However, I believe Ignoramus' main point was that east Asia's impact on European colonialism during that time period was still relatively minimal. Hence, why that part of the world is not being included in Empire.

Well, it probably drove the Russians to colonize Alaska, rather than taking all that nice land in Manchuria, and the VOC was pretty profitable, I'm given to understand.

[Jolt]

Well, it probably drove the Russians to colonize Alaska, rather than taking all that nice land in Manchuria, and the VOC was pretty profitable, I'm given to understand.

Psst, what CA & Ignoramus really mean is that those countries didn't play a role in English interests until 1800 ;)

[Lusitani]

China, Japan, Korea, and Indochina didn't play a role in European colonialism until the 1800's. As Empire finishes around 1800, it doesn't need to include them.

Actually South East Asia was a pain in the neck for the Portuguese since the early 1500's.

[Freedom Onanist]

I've been thinking. CA recently stated again at the .com that they haven't decided on the final twelve because of balancing issues and that they will decide later this year. Why is it so difficult and why is it taking such a long time? Are they not agreeing with each other? Are they afraid factions will be too similar? It also strikes me that they refer to variety more than historical importance which fans mostly debate in this issue of choosing. A sort of gameplay vs history balancing seem to be in this. The most historically important factions might be seen by CA as too similar.

For me though I don't see this as a problem because every faction can have different units that give them a unique feel. I wouldn't want to leave out any important faction just to get some more variety since historically important factions will be more interesting to play. And I definitely hope no uber ninjas will appear to counter variety-angst. Still, of course it will be exciting to play exotic factions as well. I just wish that CA would have thought of this when first starting to make the game so that all important and some more exotic factions could be playable.




G

Could it not be more to do with how to balance the game properly? From a properly historical point of view how playable are some of the "main" factions anyway?

Spain in the 18th cent? If it was represented accurately wouldn't exactly be a bundle of laughs to play would it? Economy in doldrums, infrastructure falling apart, colonies rumbling, armed forces completely neglected, society at breaking point. No disrespect to Spain, but it was in a bad way in the 18th century. To get it out of its hole would be a socio-political game not a game of empire.

Portugal? The same.

Prussia? How would you play that one without Allies subsidising your existence, or at least contuned means of waging war?

Holland? How are you going to maintain a first rank position when around you those with more resources have decided they like what you have?

Not saying any of these factions shouldn't be in there, but CA do have to decide on certain compromises to make them enjoyable game factions. Maybe this is harde to decide on than just looking at at a history book and looking up the leadding European countries of the period.

[TheDruid]

If they were to make the entire globe (btw you say only parts of Asia are excluded ; what about africa? )
they would have to make America available for the russians by the sea; meaning not passing Scandinavia.
Or is that feature already in?
would be difficult strategically i think

[hellenes]

Is it me or ETW is a PC game and thus will have all factions playable 10mins after release?

[Martok]

Is it me or ETW is a PC game and thus will have all factions playable 10mins after release?

I'm sure that'll be the case. In fact, one of the CA guys (Kieran, I think) mentioned in one of the recent previews that they expected exactly that. They know folks want to be able to play as everyone in the game.

[Thermal]

I'm sure that'll be the case. In fact, one of the CA guys (Kieran, I think) mentioned in one of the recent previews that they expected exactly that. They know folks want to be able to play as everyone in the game.

uhhhh...if thats the case why not start them off unlocked so those that dont have modding knowledge or go on forums get advantaged to???

anyway does anyone no of any mods based on australia? will we ever see the day?

[Megas Methuselah]

uhhhh...if thats the case why not start them off unlocked so those that dont have modding knowledge or go on forums get advantaged to???

Because CA wants to make it a point that the game mainly revolves, no, I mean the game is meant to be played by the initially playable factions. Sure, you can play as any other faction(God, I hope so), but there's probably going to be more goodies for those 12 special factions, ie. Soldiers speaking their native languages.

[Martok]

Because CA wants to make it a point that the game mainly revolves, no, I mean the game is meant to be played by the initially playable factions. Sure, you can play as any other faction(God, I hope so), but there's probably going to be more goodies for those 12 special factions, ie. Soldiers speaking their native languages.

^^^^^
@Aries777777: What he said.

[Jolt]

Spain in the 18th cent? If it was represented accurately wouldn't exactly be a bundle of laughs to play would it? Economy in doldrums, infrastructure falling apart, colonies rumbling, armed forces completely neglected, society at breaking point. No disrespect to Spain, but it was in a bad way in the 18th century. To get it out of its hole would be a socio-political game not a game of empire.

Portugal? The same.

Not sure about Spain, but by saying that Portugal was like the description of Spain reveals you know very little of Portuguese history, at least of the 18th century.

It's economy wasn't indeed very strong, but mid-18th century, Portugal discovered very large veins of bullion in inland Brazil, which ingame would make it very easy for the player to build a nice economy. (In real life that didn't happen due to problems which won't be represented in ETW, such as leadership idiocy among others.)
Portuguese inland infrastructure was indeed a problem, due to most industries being situated exactly in the interior and it's transportation to the coast for exporting was rather archaic, such as was the industry's and agricultural processes themselves. They were being largely improved in the beginning of the 18th century, but the said Brazillian boon brought down those improvements. Once again, this can easily be fixed by the player.
Colonies rumbling, Portugal had no colonial problems whatsoever throughout the entire period of the game, even expanding it's colonial empire during the game's period.
Armed forces completely neglected is also untrue. Portugal had largely been a naval power, and it concentrated most of it's military might in it. The land forces and garissons it held were sufficient to quell any small uprisings, or deter other colonial powers from attacking it's colonies. As such, it was adequate to the goals the nation had during the timeperiod, Brazillian gold can also put a player in land army expansion.
Society at breaking point, this certainly doesn't apply to Portugal in any sense except after Napoleon's defeat, which is well after the 18th century.

Initially having to defend colonies scattered across the globe with a bad economy, eventually using the Brazillian Gold to build the economy and the army, and gaining power after initially being an underdog and being in trouble can make up for an exciting game, I think.

So...Yeah.

[Sheogorath]

The problem is, the bits of Brazil with all the people in them aren't on the map. Rio, for example.

[Megas Methuselah]

I actually think Spain would be fun to play as. If it was indeed, as someone previously stated, falling apart in so many different ways, it would be a great experience to attempt to turn this downfall around and reclaim the country's former glory and position in the balance of powers. Sounds very challenging, and not at all boring. It'd be a struggle worthy of a pro!

@Sheo: South America's not on the map?!

[Jolt]

Well, if South America isn't on the map, it simply reinforces the fact that ETW seems a "British Colonial Game", tbh.

[Martok]

@Sheo: South America's not on the map?!

It appears that at least the northern part of it is in (encompassing modern-day Columbia, Venezuela, French Guinea, etc.). I've yet to see Brazil, however -- or indeed, any of South America below the equator -- on any of the screenshots so far.

[hellenes]

uhhhh...if thats the case why not start them off unlocked so those that dont have modding knowledge or go on forums get advantaged to???

anyway does anyone no of any mods based on australia? will we ever see the day?

People that dont go on forums cannot complain...thus CA doesnt care much about what they get....either way with 0 competition its not a huge concern for them,...

[Polemists]

Well each game has a different reason.

The primary reason they don't unlock them all at the start is material. Usually the starting Factions have far more material then the other factions. So they want new players and reviewers to play as say England in MTW 2 before they play as say Hungary, sure Hungary has unique units, but England just has more fleshed out material. Which will lead to better reviews, they may get a 96% instead of say a 84% review.

It's sad but its' true. Thus the starting playable factions, after the tutorial (yes you will have to play through the tutorial again.) will probably be the ones they have put the most time in.

You know they put a ton of time in Thirteen Colonies for Marketing, and you know as they are based in England, England and France always seem to get top billing, England cause they live there, France cause they dislike them. There will be some german faction at the start, and probably Mughals for vareity. The only guarentee's are starting the game, you can play as england, i'd almost bet money on that since nearly every video I see has england in it somewhere.

[rajpoot]

Not being able to play Britain since the beginning in a colonial era game would be like having a ship of the line without sail and cannons :P