I Am Shocked, Shocked that U.S. Gov Abused Blank Check Powers

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I've just got to chime in here- the AUMF is a declaration of war. There is no difference- legal or practical.

Edit: Ok, so as not to just leave that statement hanging on its own, I'll provide some support:


And a quote from none other than Joe Biden himself (response to a question asked after the AUMF vote):
Sorry for the tangent

I understand the point -- even argued it myself with Tribes a time or two. The AUMF was within the scope of Congress' authority as the Constitution does not specify the means by which Congress shall declare war. They certainly did authorize the use of military force knowing that Taliban forces and resources were going to be hit.

My point was that, by framing that declaration (the AUMF) in so general a manner -- under the ostensible goal of providing flexibility in a non-standard conflict -- Congress made a grave error that allowed for the acretion of Presidential power AND that shows them up as a group of collective woosies who craved the political cover of letting the President assume apparent responsibility.

You will recall that many in the Bush adminstration argued that no Congressional oversight (or authorization vote) was required for the invasion of Iraq as:

The AUMF already had granted the DoW Bush needed to act as he saw fit because of the presence of an Al Queda group in Iraq.

This is the kind of acretion I think wrong. Congress should not only have the s to DECLARE a war -- in simple form, no silly antics, but should then actively promote and encourage its successful conclusion.

What we got was more of the professional politico norm = try to set up a situation where you can take credit but push the blame elsewhere.

Nauseating.

[Kralizec]

...Obama, that economists endorse his plans more, that he seems far more in touch with regular concerns of regular people (he doesn't define middle class as 250k...)

One of our members once showed that two economic Nobel laureates endorsed Obama's plans.
Crazed Rabbit then showed that McCain was endorsed by 5 economic Nobel laureates.

I think that was about half a year ago so; I imagine the situation is different. That a majority of economists now prefer Obama though...

About the 250K, isn't that where Obama drew the line in regards to the "What do you consider to be rich?" question?

[Koga No Goshi]

One of our members once showed that two economic Nobel laureates endorsed Obama's plans.
Crazed Rabbit then showed that McCain was endorsed by 5 economic Nobel laureates.

I think that was about half a year ago so; I imagine the situation is different. That a majority of economists now prefer Obama though...

About the 250K, isn't that where Obama drew the line in regards to the "What do you consider to be rich?" question?

Well off, yes, and a big majority of Americans would think of that as a great deal of income. But playing these pass the hot potato games never gets anywhere. If you say 250k is too low to be considered the very bottom marker of upper middle class & above, then we go higher. Then we've got the rich people complaining and moaning that they already pay too much tax so don't increase their tax burden-- DECREASE it.

You have to draw the line somewhere.

Personally I think Obama's mark is far more reflective of reality in terms of how few people make that much or more, than McCain's comment that people around 600k are middle class. Maybe to someone who married a beer heiress, yeah, 600k is just low-class "new money" but...