Love it, "There's probably no God" is sort of like, "You don't need a hard hat, you probably won't fall."
They could at least have pinned their colours to the mast properly.
Love the offensive Dawkins quote at the end as well.
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Love it, "There's probably no God" is sort of like, "You don't need a hard hat, you probably won't fall."
They could at least have pinned their colours to the mast properly.
Love the offensive Dawkins quote at the end as well.
"If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."
[IMG]https://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4917/logoromans23pd.jpg[/IMG]
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"There's probably no God" is sort of like, "You don't need a hard hat, you probably won't fall."
I think a better example would be there is probably no invisible purple dragon in my back garden which cannot be proven to be there through any tests we have, now obviously this doesn't proof the purple dragon isn't there, but i would feel pretty safe saying there's probably no purple dragon in my garden....
In remembrance of our great Admin Tosa Inu, A tireless worker with the patience of a saint. As long as I live I will not forget you. Thank you for everything!
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Its impossible to prove God exists and probably even make it look likely. Equally its impossible to prove He doesn't, although its similarly difficult to prove Santa or the tooth fairy don't exist.
At the end of the day, you know when He lets you know. That's all I can say from my experience.
At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.
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i do actually believe that god exists, as it seems ludicrous that the Big Bang happened by random chance... What if that immensly hot, unimaginably dense singularity did not explode and create the universe? if it was random chance, then there was actually a 50/50 chance that it wouldnt have happened and we would not exist. But, it didn't, so i am compelled to believe that there was at least a SOMETHING, that made it happen.
However, religion is retarded, especially because it simply will not acknowledge science. I believe that Evolution DID happen. BUT, it seems silly to me that natural selection happened by random chance.... if it did, why didnt humans evolve big arms that stick out of our foreheads so they could grab fruit off of trees, or sharp retractable bone-blades on our elbows to kill prey? Because, IMHO, Evolution was not random, it was guided by SOMETHING; call it God, call it OM, call it Tao, whatever, it doesnt matter.
Do you hate Drug Cartels? Do You believe that the Drug War is basically a failure? Do you think that if we Legalized the Cannabis market, that use rates would drop, we could put age limits on cannabis, tax it, and other wise regulate it? Join The ORG Marijuana Policy Project!
In American politics, similar to British politics, we have a choice between being shot in our left testicle or the right testicle. Both parties advocate pissing on the little guys, only in different ways and to a different little guy.
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“I know Asia doesn't exist because I've never seen it.” No Asian live in Germany?"
No family/relatives/friends went there? Are you not having access to TV for pictures and reportage?
I would happily believe in a God if I got some nice pictures of him, his speeches, pictures of Heaven, interview for some “bienheureux” living in Paradise or from Archangels Gabriel or the fallen one, the Light Holder better known under the AKA of Lucifer.
Nothing is even close to that.
“Atheism is a negative position. It is extremely hard to prove a negative position. Atheism is illogical because it is illogical for humans to say there is no evidence for god, because no human can know all evidences or all activities in known creation. Its impossible to say that.” The best and most funny think I read for years. Thank you.
To believe that an ET created the world just for his own power is logical. Sure.
Who is the God of God? Who created God.
The Bible gives you the answer: At first was the Verb. Au début était le verbe. U poceti bilo je rec. Just words. God is a word.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.
"I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
"You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
"Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"
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Well, if you did get all that, then God would no longer be a matter of belief, but rather a matter of *fact*. If God ever becomes an empirical reality that can be weighed and measured, there will be absolutely no need for faith.Originally Posted by Brenus
"And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman
“The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett
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That's fair enough. When he gets in touch I will change my mind. Until then I feel my £20 donation was well spent.At the end of the day, you know when He lets you know. That's all I can say from my experience.
Anyway, There is a simple proof that God agrees he doesn't exist. A clear majority of the world's population would agree that any given god you care to mention doesn't exist. And as we all know, vox populi, vox dei. Therefore God agrees he doesn't exist.
QED.
"The only thing I've gotten out of this thread is that Navaros is claiming that Satan gave Man meat. Awesome." Gorebag
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This bus is a fun initiative. I would donate, but gods are not even important enough to me to name myself an atheist.
An atheist belongs to a religious world. He is defined, accordingly, by a world that spends its time postulating the existence of gods. Which I think is a complete waste of time. I don't not believe in god anymore than that I don't not believe that the moon is a missing 1934 disc-shaped zeppelin or that all Japanese are genetically engineered uber-groundhogs in rubber humanoid suits. If a lot of people would believe either, they'd call me an azeppelinist or an agroundhoggist. Which I really think I am not.
Last edited by Louis VI the Fat; 10-24-2008 at 17:20.
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What that clever Frenchman said.
Runes for good luck:
[1 - exp(i*2π)]^-1
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Hmf, and you're completely forgetting all those perks that's supposed to come with faithfully praying to the gods, raging from the "please don't kill me or turn me into something hideious" to "power, power, power" or "healing and even resurrection". And making it very clear that this is the deal.
I'm pretty sure that even most diehard atheists would be very faithful and godfearing if a big hand came from the sky and started to fry disbelivers. And that's despite that it makes a god very, very real.
We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?
Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7
Activity Recorded M.Y. 2302.22467
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Category error. Belief in god is not god, and belief in god exists even if god does not. Other people's belief in god defines you as an atheist whether you like it or not. First rule of any oppressive belief system: you are whatever they say you are.
"The only thing I've gotten out of this thread is that Navaros is claiming that Satan gave Man meat. Awesome." Gorebag
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Godfearing, sure, but faith will be gone. Empirical reality has no use for faith, at that point faith in God would be about as valuable as a belief that the Earth is round. While being correct, it does not require any kind of suspension of disbelief, any leap of faith to make that conclusion.
"And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman
“The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett
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And why is this leap of faith so important? Particually considerering that Jesus is supposed to have been very obvious and physical with his wonders (curing sick, walking on water, creating food and bread out of nothing, see into the future, self-resurrection, I'm sure I missed some stuff).
We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?
Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7
Activity Recorded M.Y. 2302.22467
TERMINATION OF SPECIMEN ADVISED
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Because being born sinners people would reject God anyway, anything they see will not open their minds, save intervention from God Himself.
At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.
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Heck, I don't know. God somehow values it, I suppose. Another reason might be that God stays in the shadows so that his presence would not interfere with our freedom of choice, because like you said, if God fully revealed himself to the world, there would be no atheists and likely no sinners in general.
"And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman
“The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett
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He chooses us, without divine intervention we could never choose Him. Its basic scripture, but what we do not know is why some people are chosen.
Last edited by Rhyfelwyr; 10-25-2008 at 00:10.
At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.
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There's probably no predestination.
Now stop worrying and enjoy your life like us Catholics do.
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.... so people who just happen to be born in Christian families/countries are hand-picked, everyone else is screwed and not picked?
Koga no Goshi
I give my Nihon Maru to TosaInu in tribute.
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Of course not. Anyone can become a Christian at any time.
"And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman
“The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett
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What about all of the people born 500 years ago who never met a Christian, nor heard of Christianity? All coming to a nice slow broil by now?
Koga no Goshi
I give my Nihon Maru to TosaInu in tribute.
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Time will tell.
"And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman
“The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett
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You see, I don't believe in god 100%, but I don't like atheism either.
How can anyone be certain? The certainty is my main issue.
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Mmmmm, I do love the smell of another Atheist thread, "It may lead to a more militant strain of Atheism", ha! God then you will al finally accept what your movement has really become, Richard, the Pope is your Father!
Thats right, give it a few decades and you will be sending us all off to the "advancement of individual thinking commune of Liverpool".
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-Oscar WildeNow that the House of Commons is trying to become useful, it does a great deal of harm.
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One does not need any certainty; more than your certainty of uncertainty; to be labelled an atheist. Atheist could just as well be someone who do not care about religion. I do not claim to be certain that gods do not exist; I merely find the question irrelevant. And which religion should one believe in; how could one possibly be rational about that?
How many atheists on these boards are members of some sort of "atheist movement", and how many religious members are members of a church? Do a check.
Runes for good luck:
[1 - exp(i*2π)]^-1
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I was baptised C of E, does that count?How many atheists on these boards are members of some sort of "atheist movement", and how many religious members are members of a church? Do a check.
There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”
To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.
"The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."
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Calvin will be spinning in his grave! The French gave us predestination as we know it, first through Bucer then Calvin. Of course, many of the French Calvinists came to Scotland - maybe I'm descended from them...There's probably no predestination.
Now stop worrying and enjoy your life like us Catholics do.
I think its likely that God's election is based upon something. One possibility is that He knows us before we are born (ie we exist before coming into this world), the other is that He bases His decisions upon how we would act through His foreknowledge. By chance I came across this verse last night, in Psalm 139:
15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
So yes, this world is all about playing out the inevitable. However, don't confuse predestination with double predestination. The reason I do not believe in double predestination is because the Bible never teaches that God actively predestines people to Hell, rather only some are elected to salvation. The question is - what is this election based upon?
I suppose thats all a bit theological for most people's liking here in the backroom, but I just wanted to clear that up.
At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.
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"Religion is retarded"? I'm afraid you pretty much expounded the current doctrine of the Catholic, Anglican and Eastern Churches regarding Science. Not every christian is a ludite, in fact most of us aren't.
I would like to dispute this. You are speaking doctrine, not scripture. Many medieval theologins, and modern theologins have argued that the Devil has no power over us because God loves all his children and offers all a chance at salvation. To argue that we are chained by the Devil is to attribute deistic powers to a fallen angel whom god has cast out and who seeks to frustrate God by tempting man. If you want scriptural reference for this look to the book of Job. Even when God withdraws his protection for Job the Devil is only able to affect his body, not his spirit, and though Job rails against his fate he does not turn his face from God.
the traditional doctrine here I believe is that God has created some for salvation and others not. To talk of double predestination is double-speak because all men are destined for Hell, but for the Grace of God. The form that Grace takes is still, rightly, being debated. The doctrine of election says that because God has created all things it is for him to decide their fate. If he created you for salvation then you will be saved but if he created you for destruction then you have no right to complain because you have no purpose but to be destroyed.
Further, there is no way to tell who is who and no amount of prayer, good works and love of God will save you. It is an elegant and logical doctrine which seeks to explain why some believe and others do not whilst alos explaining how God chooses who to save or damn.
I don't believe a word of it and I don't believe it is supported by scripture.
"If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."
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Satan is powerful. Of course he is in no way a deity, he is far from sovereign and while his powers are far greater than that of a human it does not in any way make him a God. There can only be one God, otherwise He would not be sovereign as the Bible teaches.
According to scripture, Satan cannot read our minds. However, we are warned against his "fiery arrows". Such evil seeds are planted by Satan in our minds. By our own merits, it is impossible to overcome them. You have to let God be your shield against Satan, then you can beat them. However, without it stemming from God's intervention, we would be unable to accept God since we would be so engrossed in our sin. That is why God is sovereign in salvation.
It does not make sense to refute that salvation comes directly from God, otherwise as Koga pointed out how would some poeple be able to accept Him if they had no idea what Christianity was? Our fates are either sealed purely by God, or by our judgements before we came to this earth, with God enabling us to realise our fates in our lifetimes on earth.
At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.
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To that I must I agree.
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“Well, if you did get all that, then God would no longer be a matter of belief, but rather a matter of *fact*. If God ever becomes an empirical reality that can be weighed and measured, there will be absolutely no need for faith.” Yep. We speak of Faith and belief.
Does an atheist have a belief? No. It is the absence of belief which characterises an atheist. So the pretend that Atheism is a Religion is absolutely a manipulation. It is an opinion, a political movement if you want, but nothing to do with a belief.
As you point out, with proof you don’t need Faith.
“That's fair enough. When he gets in touch I will change my mind.” Well, first demand a proof of identity and read the small letters of the Contract: Too many gods pretend to be the only one (at least their representatives on Earth) so, clarify with him/her/it what are the terms and conditions.
Too many gods just vanished in History living their faithful without any alternatives… A little bit like ERON and the money of its employees’ pension schemes…
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.
"I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
"You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
"Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"
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