Silver weapons?

[Blazing141]

Hi,
Sorry if this has been addressed, but I remember in vanilla, you could upgrade your troops' equipment...to silver, etc...is this implemented in EB? If so, how do I do it, I've played through 50 years and still have not been able to outfit my soldiers with anything other than the standard starting (bronze?) weaponry.

Thanks all.

[Celtic_Punk]

there is only one level of blacksmith. this was to allow for more buildings and quite frankly super weapons unbalance the game. so it was decided against.

[Blazing141]

So I'm not missing anything...good. thanks!

[Celtic_Punk]

rgr, your roman anyway, you dont need better weapons. Once you hit them marians life will be GRAVY! everythin GRAVY!

[LordCurlyton]

Besides, standard weaponry is no upgrade at all. Bronze signifies superior weapons. Personally I'm all in favor of eliminating the blacksmith altogether or at worst incorporating it into the higher levels of MIC. And good thing MTW2 tones done the gains of xp. Now its only a +1 to stats for every three levels of xp (ie all bronze levels get +1. all silver get +2, all gold get +3) so no more uber-levy troops.

[abou]

There were plans to remove the blacksmith, but we just never got around to it.

[LordCurlyton]

Wasn't that because a suitable replacement for that slot was never found? I remember the talk of it going away but I figured it just got pushed into EB II.

[navarro951]

I dont like the idea entirely...i understand the whole UBER-units, but not having a blacksmith would be ridiculous. Quality in weapons in this era was a huge part in battles. Take the barbarians in Brittania, their swords could vary from breaking your shield in two to breaking the sword itself in two so they are realistic as far as retraining troops.

[kekailoa]

I agree. There was a large variety of weapon quality throughout the world, and I think blacksmith's express this. And, what about the armor? It's more realistic to have weapon upgrades from blacksmiths than chevrons from temples and government types.

[LordCurlyton]

Yes but using up a whole building complex? Just incorporate it into the MIC levels or adjust the stats for the areas that produced higher quality weaponry. And to counter the Britannia example, those great swords would have been the property of the nobles only. I can't really conceive of them ever being able to outfit tens of thousands of men with high quality gear, even if they had unified the Isles. But then that was true of basically everywhere: the specialist armorers made the best stuff for the best customers, their nobles. To be able to apply the blacksmith to a whole army implies either a major change in the way the weaponry was made/materials used which resulted in a very noticeable net increase or the net amount of weapons/armor available increased, in which case they should be represented by a better-armored unit and not an "upgrade". I'm sorry, but if you can afford to give your levy units quality weapons you have 15th Century CE-level production going on, not 3rd Century BCE.
Also, if you read the full description of at least some of the MIC buildings they tend to refer to the complex as possessing a blacksmith already, which makes the separate one redundant.
Also also, if any of the reform-capable factions underwent a great enough shift in technique and/or availability without a great shift in units then it would warrant getting an upgrade, but I would say use the reform marker as the upgrade provider.

[Praetor Diego]

I always disagree with the weapon bonus, for the uber-levy reason mentioned. IMHO blacksmith buildimg should be only a prequisite for heavy armored units. With no bonus at all.

[everyone]

but if I'm not mistaken, higher levels of MICs such as sweboz's "raunoakraz andi sarwasmithjon mekilu" (drill field and great war-gear smithy) and "askesis polemike kai skeuothekai" (regular military training and armouries) already include a blacksmith-like structure (armouries/smithy/etc). I don't think there is a need for the blacksmith building to be a prerequisite for the armoured units.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Yes, the blacksmith/weaponsmith type structures/jobs were supposed to be integrated into the MIC structures, however the blacksmith wasn't crucially needed so it was left behind. With FATW's concept of using the "siege" upgrade to represent reform units, new MICs for reforms were not needed. The blacksmith was going to be used for more unique wonders but other issues took priority and it never manifested.

There were grades of weapons in the ancient/classical world, however the blacksmith upgrades have way too large of an effect. If you have a weapon that does 10 damage and get a gold upgrade, that's a sword that is now 130% the strength of the original. That's quite a lot for simply being a slightly better blacksmith.

[Ca Putt]

I agree with the "no smithy"-party. but what about 1-3 markers which indicate good weapon material in a region? this could also give a small increace in tradable goods.

[saftglas]

but after rebellions, there are sometimes troops with silver and even gold
equipment... but i think this is left from the old vanilla where rebells were also
spawned with superior arms...

[Macilrille]

One thing I would love to see is the ability to upgrade "dated" units to new one, Cammillan to Polybian, Polybian to Marian etc. I never really understood why you had to disband them. To use a modern analogy that would be like disbanding the USMC if a new amphibious assult doctrine were invented, instead of training that proud old unit according to new standards. Which is how it and many other military units has survived...

If we take a look at one of Caesar's legions (Marian Units), the Legio I Germanica it was raised in 49-48 BC and continued in service under the same name till defeated in the Batavian Revolt of 70 AD. Its remains were then merged with Galba's VII Legion and known as Legion VII Gemina until mid third century. It is even possible that we can trace the same unit until overrun on The Iberian Peninsula in the early fifth century. This would have developed from Marian Legion through Augustan (? never played that far to make that last reform if it is even there, but historically the legions of the Principate were different from those of the Marian reforms, service length and armour springs to mind) to some BI-Unit. But in EB as well as RTW-Vanilla you cannot have units that are reformed and retrained with new weapons, but still made up (largely) of veterans and with proud traditions.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Rebellions spawn nearly random units with random upgrades. This is part of the exe and is therefore hardcoded and unchangable.

About the change from Camilian to Polybian troops. The "reform" was not a sudden event historically. It was a slow change to equiptment that was found to be better. And when new equiptment was used, they would not change the equiptment of an army already in the field. That army would continue using it equiptment until their campaign was complete and then disband and go home. If those soldiers (or their sons) could not afford the new equiptment, they might even be reconscripted with the same old "Camilian" equiptmen well into the "Polybian Era". So think of it this way when you cannot upgrade your legions, it is a shame you can't though.

[Macilrille]

It is indeed, and I am aware of the change of equipment not happening overnight (I have a Ma in medieval, Roman and military history- consider my love of EB a grait praise indeed, for I am also a perfectionist and stickler for accuracy;-) ). And until The Second Punic War when Rome started having legions in the field year-round sensible enough, except that what the game portrays are "professional" armies as we never disband them with XP Chevrons so hard won.
But, after The Second Punic War and especially after the Marian reforms it makes no sense to not be able to retain your soldiers and just hand them new weapons, "here is our new sword, we call it Gladius Hispanensis, we will train with it for a while my trusted veterans, then take the field with it" IE move army to city, rebuild it for Mnai, next season move them away = Mnai for new equipment, time (three months) for training...

That is one of my few quibs with the game, a mod that I otherwise love.

I have not played very far as Romani yet, but does EB reflect the lack of manpower in the late Republic, and the Civil Wars? Whatever else you could hold against vanilla RTW they did make a feeble attempt to portray that intense competetion that brought the Res Publica Romana to its end.