The Curia

[/Bean\]

Personally, i would suggest using one arm to capture Bononia, and use the remaining full units from that attack, and merge them with the second legion to attack Segesta

[everyone]

Legatus Cotta, it is sure that you do not analyse the situation, one legion of ours is far weaker than the garrison of either Bononia or Segesta; however two legions combined would be greater than the garrison of either of the cities. Tribunus Appivs' suggestion sounds more feasible, if two legions work together to take out two disunited foes, it would be much easier and would reduce the total number of casualties

(OOC: the armies of Bononia and Segesta individually are too large for one legion to take on, save attack a settlement (you know how siege battles are like, 10% of our troops die because of lousy maneuvering even in a clear victory); we concentrate two legions to dispatch one city first, then take out the other after retraining the two legions

[Potocello]

Tribvnvs Servivs Longvs stands to voice his opinion, addressing Legatvs Cotta he says

"Senator, as the Consul stated, it is not worth it to attack one city with one legion and have it be destroyed when we could just as well send two legions to destroy it and take minimal casualties. There is no point in risking the defeat of one of these legions. You said, "If we fail to defeat the Celts in one battle, we can inflict heavy casualties on them before falling back and attacking again." But why wouldn't we just send the two legions after one city and not risk the massive casualties which would result in more spending and more time to rebuild these legions. With all due respect to Legatvs Cotta and the Dictator, i think it would be just foolish to send one army to fight these brutes alone."

Servivs glances at the Consul and sits, waiting for the replies of his fellow senators.

[YouHaveRecieved]

Why should we wait to attack?

Why not starve them out?

I'm sure our supply lines would hold for a year or so, and you know what would happen to Celts if they get hungry. They will rush out the gates in an unorganized manner and Roman tactics will win the day. Unless we prefer the other options.

[SwissBarbar]

I say we crush them by superior force, no risk. You speak of soldiers and retrainig as if they were chessmen. But these soldiers are Romans! Though they are not of high rank, they still are our brothers. Do not lead them into massacre and say "we have enough of them, we'll attack again if we lose in the first place". We don't lose! Roman discipline is great, but its founded on intelligent strategical desicions, and not on leading men into battle and hope they kill enough enemies until they get slaughtered, so the next army may win! One single dead roman is already too much to give to those filthy, smelly naked barbarian in the north, though I know, that a very hard fight is about to happen! If we lose, this will be an invitation to all Barbarians to invade our territories because they see, that we can be beaten. The Carthagians will laugh at us, the Greeks may invade too and many other nations could come to the conclusion, that roman power is to be challenged. Let us make an example once and for all.

[YouHaveRecieved]

As I said, why need superior numbers when we can easily crush them if we wait for them to sally out of their strongholds. They will be hungry and angry. They will heed no orders and flanking will be easy and at a whim. I give them a year, two at most before they come, less if they are confident. We then just use manoeverabilty to outwit the fools. I differ from you greatly Noble Mamercus. I think the loss of two whole legions is satisfactory for the greater good of the Republic. Would you die watching the Republic fall or watching it flourish?

[everyone]

The crowd jeers

Asina rises to address Titvs

"Titvs Valerivs Maximvs, I'm afraid what you meant by 'the loss of two whole legions is satisfactory for the greater good of the Republic' is horribly impossible; might I remind you that those two legions are the only legions that we could currently muster, and if they were to be lost, the garrisons of our lands would be vulnerable to an invasion from either direction.

Even if we do not get invaded, rebuilding those two legions would probably take until the next congressional session, which by then things are going to change.

Also, our armies could not maintain a siege for that long, the furthest we can wait is a year before our supplies run low and there are threats of mutiny; and even Bononia would need around 5 seasons before they run out of supplies.

However, I am confident that if they are to sally, we could crush them with our superior strategy and tactics; they have no obstructions to aid them; we just need to get a good reason for them to sally forth."

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Quintus rises..

I agree with Asina. We can not risk with losing those two legions. And one legion can not win the garrisons of those barbarian villages.

Legio I Apulia (Standard Legion)
1 principes (82 men, full strength)
2 equites romani (50 men each, full strength)
3 Hastati (82 men each, full strength)
2 Accensi (60 men each, full strength)

Is this the legion you want to use against barbarians??

Quintus laughs..

A bunch of poor Hastati and Accensi against bloodthirsty and trained barbarians??
This is a massacre and nothing else!!!

Quintus takes his seat..

[YouHaveRecieved]

I said the loss of two legions, not the two Legions we have. Five seasons is little over a year and I am sure our commanders keep enough disipline in the Legions to see that they last that long.
Titus smirks at his last sentance.
Do you not believe that you could cope with the stress and bring your troops to win. Of course, I belive and the plebs as well ought to believe. Yes, I still hold true to my statement. If one of fine Generals were to lose your Legions or, by Hades, lose your life but manage to capture the settlement. I'm sure I would be grieving, but that you did your duty to the Republic.

[everyone]

the crowd continues jeering

"Titvs, it is not a matter of discipline, rather it is a matter of logistics; would supplies be able to reach us? would it reach us on time? there are a myriad of problems in logistics.
Also, isn't 'the loss of two legions' the same as 'the loss of two legions we have'? two legions are all we have, together with some levies and militia"

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Then you don't mind being the first one to enter one of those settlements and clear the gates to the rest of the men, right?

[YouHaveRecieved]

Me?

If course I do. But of course I ask if any Legion would have me but do I get a reply? Nay, I don't. The loss of two we have is different to two Legions. Like I said before. There is no reason. We must first get a navy and then build our infastructure to support more Legions and then move to conquer island settlements.

Back to the original question. Yes of I would eagerly go into the battle at the gates but I would not want a battle at the gates but of course outside the walls when they sally forth.

[SwissBarbar]

Led by the right man, those 2 legions can achieve much

[YouHaveRecieved]

Ah, but led by the right man any Legion can do much. I don't see how that phrase contributes at all to the argument.

[SwissBarbar]

I adressed Quintus, who spoke of our "poor" Hastati. In my opinion these poor Hastati can beat those wild and trained men, if they are lead by the right man - whoever this is - and of course if they are not led into massacre beeing outnumbered by the enemy. We need to send two legions northwards.

And you Titvs Valerivs , of which islands did you speak?

[YouHaveRecieved]

Ah, I totally agree with you there Aulus Aemilius. Our men are much better than what most people think, for we have several advantages. The islands I speak of are the Beleares, Korsim and Sardin. Now I realise that Carthage has control of these islands but at the moment they are difying us by owning them. Korsim and Sardim are ill defended and could be easily taken and I'm sure our noble diplomats could bring the peace back. I believe this way we could maximise massive profits, especially from Beleares. If not then we could send an expeditionary force to Krete to establish some relations down there.

[navarro951]

Heres Blasio rises...

"It is my belief that if Consul Asina and Legatus Cotta choose to work together in their objectives and take each city together, then they are very much allowed to do so. The orders are simple though, both cities will be taken before any major campaign ,whether it be against barbarians or sicilia, is launched.

Also Quintus raised a valid point about two things. First, while are legions are tough men they are few. This leads us to the taxes. We can easily raise taxes without angering people and could have another legion in addition to our two.

The taxes will be raised before the end of this year, and im sure our new consuls will get straight to finishing up the training of Legio II Latium. "

Blasio seats himself...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

OOC: The only reason I am un-supportive of a war with Carthage or the Guals, is simply historical reason. We wont see the first Punic War till 264. And the Guals may possibly be our enemy as soon as we take Bononia and Segesta.

[/Bean\]

Cotta rises from his seat where he has sat listening to the arguments in rising agitation, a slight look of relief visible on his features

Good Senators, the Heres has spoken. Let this go no further. I beseech Consul Asina to agree with me that we will follow the Heres overall strategy, sending both legions to the north, and tackling each tribe one at a time. Let us make this final, gentlemen.

Consul?

[navarro951]

Senators, the Congressional Council will be closing at 20:00 Pacific Time today if there is no new legislation being proposed at that time. Anything new anyone would like to discuss or add do so now.

[navarro951]

"This Congressional Session is now closed. All legislation presentation has ended and the floor is now open for routine discussion. 48 hours will be allotted for voting!"

[everyone]

Asina seemed to be in a daze,
his retainer prods him

"Ah yes, Legatus Cotta; both the legions under our command shall co-operate and capture the cities together; I shall be informing you of my strategy soon"

(OOC: in other words, I'm going to play out a test-battle to capture each city with the armies we are about to have)

[SwissBarbar]

Senatores, is there place in any Army for me and my retinue? Aemilivs asked I'd like to fight those barbarians too and prove my quality as a true roman.

[navarro951]

Heres Blasio steps into the chamber with a hardened look on his face...

"Good men, I have just received reports that the very distant Kingdom of Pontos has announced a declaration of war against our own enemy, the vile Epirotes. I believe, it is time to gain a new friend and lose an old enemy.

I propose a diplomat be sent, on what will be a marathon of a travel, to meet the Pontic king and build up some sort of friendship. If an alliance can be made we will have the ability to attack our enemy from both sides.

Sooner or later, we will have to cross the Adriatic and cut our enemies throat in their own homeland. I say the time may not be now...but soon! Very near in time we will have two legions of finely trained Roman legionaries and they will get a true taste of training when they take the independent regions set by our recent edicts.

Let the floor be open for debate on this topic, I hope all true men of this senate are as thirsty for Epirote blood as I!"

Blasio then eyes the room for the first speaker

[everyone]

"Though I may wish to see all of the republic's enemies crushed by our legions, I'm afraid that an alliance with the kingdom of Pontus wouldn't help us currently; the lands under the dominion of their king are little, they only encompass a small section of Asia Minor; there is probably little either of us can do to help each other, except giving financial aid of some sort because as of now, our interests are focused in our immediate surroundings: Cisalpine Gaul and Sicilia.

However for long-term benefit, perhaps I would agree with your proposal; we may require their aid in the near future, as by then the Pontic King may have already grown to a sizable kingdom that could properly challenge the Epirote advance to the east."

[Mooks]

Has anyone considered sending a diplomat to open trading ties to the factions of the east? The far off Egyptians, selecuids, and even the Macedonians dont have trading contracts with our merchants (correct me if im wrong). While the barbarians might not be friendly, their gold might.

Also, I propose a peace be made with the Epirotes if we are not planning to invade the Illyrian coast. Then a trading contract be made. War with the Epirotes serves no purpose to Rome if it merely lessens our coffers and angers our merchants.

[YouHaveRecieved]

Yes but do we want to provoke war with the Carthaginians. They have kept a fickle peace treaty with us for the single reason the Pyrrus survives.

[/Bean\]

Cotta enters the chambers

Forgive me for not attending at an earlier date, Senators. Business of overseeing the Legio II Lativm has kept me occupied.

May I welcome the young Decimvs Cornelivs Scipio to the Senate. I hope you are now familiar with the rules we live by and will abide to them.

However, I must answer the new Senator's last speech with a question. Were you there, Scipio? Did you face the hordes of the Epirites; the Molossian King that invaded our land; the Illyrians, Greeks, Tarentines, Italians, and humangous beasts he called forth with a simple wave of his hand? My father was, Senator. He fought the Molossian at Heraclea, and met his end on the fields of Asculum. He was a brave man and a good soldier. He would never have agreed to sign a peace treaty with an enemy that had invaded, pillaged and killed many good men, women and children under the protection of Roma, to then retreat and abandon those he had come to aid. I plea the Senate to not sign a peace treaty with these scum from Greece; Roma will repay old debts in the future. For now let them huddle behind the protection of the sea and their navy.

As to the Senator's other proposal, I do agree. Maybe we should send out merchants and diplomats to secure trade routes with far off kingdoms. Only good and riches can come out of it. Better relations, sharing of resources and contact with ancient civilisations await, gentlemen. I am open to debate, but would like to remind you that this is for the good of the Republic, and the rich men of Roma as much as the mob.

Cotta takes his seat, awaiting a reply from the Senate

[SwissBarbar]

"Roma did never cloister itself, why should it now? I agree, we should establish trade routes to foreign Kingdoms beyond Neptunus' sea. I could not come up with an counter-argument, not by any stretch of the imagination." With that Avlvs seats himself.

[Mooks]

Cotta enters the chambers

Forgive me for not attending at an earlier date, Senators. Business of overseeing the Legio II Lativm has kept me occupied.

May I welcome the young Decimvs Cornelivs Scipio to the Senate. I hope you are now familiar with the rules we live by and will abide to them.

However, I must answer the new Senator's last speech with a question. Were you there, Scipio? Did you face the hordes of the Epirites; the Molossian King that invaded our land; the Illyrians, Greeks, Tarentines, Italians, and humangous beasts he called forth with a simple wave of his hand? My father was, Senator. He fought the Molossian at Heraclea, and met his end on the fields of Asculum. He was a brave man and a good soldier. He would never have agreed to sign a peace treaty with an enemy that had invaded, pillaged and killed many good men, women and children under the protection of Roma, to then retreat and abandon those he had come to aid. I plea the Senate to not sign a peace treaty with these scum from Greece; Roma will repay old debts in the future. For now let them huddle behind the protection of the sea and their navy.

As to the Senator's other proposal, I do agree. Maybe we should send out merchants and diplomats to secure trade routes with far off kingdoms. Only good and riches can come out of it. Better relations, sharing of resources and contact with ancient civilisations await, gentlemen. I am open to debate, but would like to remind you that this is for the good of the Republic, and the rich men of Roma as much as the mob.

Cotta takes his seat, awaiting a reply from the Senate

I thank you for the welcome.

A war without a objective is just a drain on our coffers. While I admire your Father's accomplishments and his service to Rome, trade with the illyrians should continue until we have ample resources to deal with them. We have war on the savages in the north and possible war with Carthrage, I see no need to continue with the Epirotes unless we are campaigning against them.

Unless, you want to get honorable revenge and organize a campaign against them? ;)

[/Bean\]

Quite angrily, Cotta retaliates

Have you no honour, Scipio? These men invaded, pillaged and burned our country. They were beaten back through the courage, sacrifice and lives our grand armies. Now, you wish you offer them a choice to recuperate, to replenish their coffers with Roman gold? I swear, on my father's name, that Rome shall not fund her enemies. I have no wish to abandon our direction to the north; Epirus will wait. But while it waits, I refuse to take part in it's recovery.

With that, Cotta sat, silently daring the young Tribune to challange him further.