Decisions...

[patdj]

Hm, I have not much to add. Funny thing: in my campains the Oda never get big. They always get lost in rebels and rivals or just die out. Plus: your campain overview map looks like traffic lights in weird order. Pin-Pon!

[caravel]

Hmm, looks like its time to get Kawachi to me...

Hmmm... further eastward expansion? Apart from it being a river province and having a good farm income, how would Kawachi benefit me? It would isolate those Oda in Shikoku but I would end up fighting invasions from both sides. It would also mean that my eastern border becomes a three province one.

in which case a few teppo wouldnt hurt; hows Lord Mori s latin?


Benedictis Dio Omnipotentis In nomine Padri e Fili e Spiritus Sancti... Amen

!it burnsus!

Well he knows a little, but the Lord Buddha might have something to say about that.

I've decided to avoid gunpowder at least until the Dutch arrive and maybe altogether. I know that with the Portuguese you can effectively double cross them and build the trading posts without converting your Daimyo to Christianity, but this time around I want to keep the Mori purely Buddhist and concentrate on having Monks as my main elite unit. I will not be training as much cavalry either.

[gollum]

Apart from it being a river province and having a good farm income, how would Kawachi benefit me?

It ll get you (miles) closer to bottlenecking in Yamashiro and Wakasa, solving your multiprovince frontier, while increasing your income and potential (plus one honor in Yamashiro). Also a good missile based force in Kawachi will punish attackers severely no matter which direction they are coming from.

Well he knows a little, but the Lord Buddha might have something to say about that.

Not to mention his followers.

I've decided to avoid gunpowder at least until the Dutch arrive and maybe altogether. I know that with the Portuguese you can effectively double cross them and build the trading posts without converting your Daimyo to Christianity, but this time around I want to keep the Mori purely Buddhist and concentrate on having Monks as my main elite unit. I will not be training as much cavalry either.

Dear me - this sounds more theocentric than the Kamakura Shogunate.

!it burnsus!

[caravel]

It ll get you (miles) closer to bottlenecking in Yamashiro and Wakasa, solving your multiprovince frontier, while increasing your income and potential (plus one valor in Yamashiro). Also a good missile based force in Kawachi will punish attackers severely no matter which direction they are coming from.

Well I've just lost all allies except Hojo when I struck against the Shimazu, so I may move against Oda as well.

Dear me - this sounds more theocentric than the Kamakura Shogunate.

!it burnsus!

Fanatically more so...

[gollum]

I hope not nakedly fanatic though...

!it burnsus!

[caravel]

A bit chilly up in the mountains and hills for that...

[caravel]

Several battles later:


Oda and Shimazu have both gone after Sanuki province every season for just over a year. The garrison there led by Mori Masamoto and his Yari Samurai has held out well so far, including several great victories while outnumbered 2/1. As a result of my expansion in the east and west, I have cut off some Shimazu and Oda forces in Shikoku, including Shimazu Muneharu himself. Their defeats have been one humiliation after another. They had only gained one minor vistory placing the castle in Sanuki under siege, this was quickly relieved.

-Edit: The general you can see in Awa is Hideyoshi himself. He has taken part in most if not all of the attempts on Sanuki with his ally Muneharu, and each time my forces had failed to pick him off until he was brought down by a unit of YS charging him in the flank.

An Oda incursion into Tajima was seen off by one unit of Ashigaru. Hiding in the woods he managed to divide his enemy in half and first routed the enemy Ashigaru unit. Next, after reforming quickly his unit charged the approaching YS general. The ensuing fight could have gone either way, but the Ashiguru began to take the upper hand resulting in the rout of the Oda. He is now a two star general for his efforts.

The incursions into Kyushu gone relatively unopposed. Several battles have ended without a blow exchanged. At the sight of Mori Terumoto and Mori Masanari with their warriror monks the enemy prefers to run. It is usually the enemy's Ashigaru that rout first before even making contact, then the rest soon follow.

Mori Motonari eventually passed on to the next life. He has been succeeded by Mori Yoshinari, who is now commanding the men on the eastern front - he has large shoes to fill. At present the border is holding but reinforcements are on the way from the capital. The battles on the eastern front against the Oda have been fiercer but in general the Oda have not turned out in the numbers one would expect. The battle for Kawachi consisted of two units of Monks and two of Naginta. The bridge was rushed and the larger force on the other side seemed to lack the backbone to take them on. The Oda force fell apart and routed.

The Dutch have arrived and I have accepted their proposal. We shall see what transpires.

:bow

[gollum]

With Oda troops traped in Awa i would move in Mino/Owari in order to *close* the Kinki area (Kii/Yamato/Iga/Ise) and take it at will. Shimazu is reduced to a nuisance.

I wouldnt want to face those Aki Wmonks - legendary armoury/weapons and (me thinks) palace - phew. No wonder why Shimazu troops take it to the hills.

It seems that Oda is forced to have large stacks in his eastern border.

Mori Motonari eventually passed on to the next life.

And already re-incarnated to post about it

!it burnsus!

[caravel]

And so it begins...

The worthy Shimazu clan is no more. Defeated on the field, he fought bravely 'til the end.


In the west those forces aligning themselves to the Uesugi have become legitimate targets. The situation could worsen in that region once Uesugi begins shipping armies into Satsuma.


In the east Mori forces have advanced into Mino and Owari, sealing off the Oda forces and their Daimyo to the south.


Several seasons later and the Uesugi and Oda threats are removed from the east. Now the westward advance begins. The battles against the Uesugi were uneventful: Routing at the sight of the Monks...

[gollum]

Owari has a palace - perfect for settling the Dutch gaijin there and providing high honor and morale teppo ashigaru. They might get handy in Mino and Owari in case the Hojo or Uesugi dominate the kanto plain and come after your lordship with as many men as the grains of rice that grow there.

*He who does not consider what is far will soon find trouble close at hand*

From now on its one way. treating Lord Oda appropriately in order to set foot in Kii would be necessary at some point as well as worthy - although your Hiroshima WMonks will punish unbelievers heavenly without any helping hand from the Ota branch.

*Those who steal are called thieves - what shall we call those who claim the merits of heaven?*



!it burnsus!

[caravel]

The teppo production has already begun as I had accepted the Dutch in my last post. That force of Monks and Naginta you see in Owari is not the permanent garrison. They were the invasion force that met no resistance whatsoever. I have Iwami turning out teppo units at present and I am building a trading post in Owari. In truth I don't have many provinces with training facilities as I tend to try and centralise as much as possible. Aki and it's neighbours will become teppo training sites before long.

The combination of Monks and Teppo (big bangs, lots of Monks appear, enemy runs) is quite a deadly one in this game.

[gollum]

In truth I don't have many provinces with training facilities as I tend to try and centralise as much as possible.

Usually me too - except when blitzing - then a small amount of buildings in specialist provinces is prefered to streamline a steady supply of troops.

big bangs, lots of Monks appear, enemy runs

Fear and Wonder - powerful combination.

!it burnsus!

[caravel]

Update:

Moving eastwards I am now in a position where I can either head northwards into Echigo, or move south and take Musashi from the Uesugi. Lord Hojo however is not to be trusted and the Mikawa garrison will have to remain strong.


Uesugi's attempt at Shinano only two seasons after it's capture proved to be a humiliating deteat. Lord Uesugi literally emptied the neighbouring provinces of Musashi and Kozuke in this attempt, though he did not take part in the battle himself.

Lining the valley with the warrior Monks hugging the treeline on one side and the rest of the force on the other. Mori Yoshinari, now in his 70's, ordered the Naginta to line the hill with the teppo out in front. The No Dachi and Heavy Cavalry keeping an eye on a potentially exposed back door to their position. As Yoshinari had planned, the enemy around 2000 in number, began to divide. Foolishly the enemy general sent his Yari Samurai and Archers to uphill towards the Monks who began the downward charge... On the other side, the Uesugi forces there began to break under the constant hail of musket balls... the rest as they say is history.

[gollum]

I hope your daimyo is not interested in taking his tea with young educated ladies - something (purple and) wicked this way comes.

Uesugi's attempt at Shinano only two seasons after it's capture proved to be a humiliating deteat.

heh it seems it was a true head-ache for the Uesugi.

!it burnsus!

[caravel]

I hope your daimyo is not interested in taking his tea with young educated ladies - something (purple and) wicked this way comes.

Tell me about it, I've started Ninja training and I'm developing Iga for Ninjas and Tajima for Geisha (to get rid of that one). Tajima is training Ninjas already so the first few will be coming from there.

[caravel]

And so it ends...

The Hojo Geishas went after my family line until they had killed every last one - about 5 in total - and this was all while Lord Hojo was still my ally. I was gearing up to break the alliance and go all out against Hojo and sent an emissary to Uesugi. His head was returned the following season when Oda and Uesugi hit Shinano with over 4000 men...

Despite me having about 20 ninja chasing them around, none succeeded. The first Geisha reached honour 4 and killed the Daimyo Mori Yoshinari. This triggered some revolts and the reappearance of Shimazu. I decided to cede kyushu to him as it was impossible to hold. When the second Geisha appeared and after two attempts picked off my last heir that was pretty much it...

[Wishazu]

Geisha are actually one of the reasons I try to get my agent facilities up and running early on, so as to be able to call on large groups of ninja as soon as the geisha appear. Unlucky though mate, it looked to be a great campaign. At least your honour is still great

[patdj]

You have my deepest sympathy. I think I would bite the desk if my campain failed because of the female clowns. Instead of sending all the ninjas against Geishas you could have sent them after the Hojo daimyo and his heirs, to kill his line first. Saved game? Or are you already over it?

[caravel]

Well if it wasn't for the Geisha I could have stormed the AI from the map, so it was getting to the predictable stage anyway. Once defeated I tend not to revert to save games, for me it's the taking part that counts more so than the winning. I've started a new campaign as Imagawa starting at 1530.

Yes sending the Ninjas against Hojo may have been the right idea in retrospect, though the single Geisha became such an immediate threat that she was killing one of my heirs per season. Trying to wipe out Hojo's family line with my not so great ninjas would have taken quite a bit longer. It's like Wishazu has said, getting the training facilities up and running sooner is very important unless you're blitzing of course - and usually I'm a big user of Ninja and Shinobi, but on this occasion I neglected to develop Ninja houses and paid the price.

[patdj]

Then be it so.

Imagawa you say? That's what I wanted to do as well, once I'm finished with my MTW campains... It is one of the last ones of whom we do not already have a report written. Looks challenging.

Talking of it: it may be a stupid question, but what is the difference between Sengoku Jidai and Starting in 1530, as they both start in 1530... Is the SJ fictive and the 1530 more "realistic"? Which one is more interesting, or challenging?

[gollum]

Thank you for gracing us with your campaigns.

[caravel]

Talking of it: it may be a stupid question, but what is the difference between Sengoku Jidai and Starting in 1530, as they both start in 1530... Is the SJ fictive and the 1530 more "realistic"? Which one is more interesting, or challenging?

The Sengoku one is less realistic, whereas the 1530 has the clans in (what I assume to be?) somewhere near to their correct locations. The rest of the map would have been covered by many more minor clans, represented as rebels and ronin in the game.

Thank you for gracing us with your campaigns.

Well they weren't that great, I'm not so good at these write ups...

[Martok]

Nice campaign, Caravel. It had everything too: Some interesting strategic positions, quick brutal wars, and an unexpectedly tragic ending. Well done sir.

[caravel]

Like patdj and as I've mentioned above, I have now started an Imagawa campaign. So far it's going slow though I've trained up some Geisha to avoid a repeat of last time. My strategy is to hold both the east and west as long as possible, to avoid the linear and predictable west to east sweep pattern. So far I've converted to christian and have begun large scale teppo production. I managed to assassinate Lord Oda in Owari, wiping them out, with the view to expanding there. He was holed up there and not really making much progress. This did not go as planned as his forces joined the Shimazu and they are quite sizeable. Deciding that it was time I went to war with him and invaded Bungo.

[Wishazu]

Good Luck with Imagawa Caravel. They are my favourite clan to play as and in my opinion the most challenging clan to play as. To be honest, that`s probably why I like them so much.

Going back to the issue of Geisha`s that we have been talking about recently, is there any way to delete them from the game so as to stop them from ruining a perfectly good campaign?

[Drisos]

Darn geisha's!

Very nice campaign and story.

[caravel]

Good Luck with Imagawa Caravel. They are my favourite clan to play as and in my opinion the most challenging clan to play as. To be honest, that`s probably why I like them so much.

Going back to the issue of Geisha`s that we have been talking about recently, is there any way to delete them from the game so as to stop them from ruining a perfectly good campaign?

Unfortunately not, they are hardcoded. You cannot add/remove any units or buildings from STW in fact.

[Wishazu]

A pity. In future I`ll just have to make sure I win quickly(unlikely) or get my geishas up and running to counter theirs.

[ReluctantSamurai]

Going back to the issue of Geisha`s that we have been talking about recently, is there any way to delete them from the game so as to stop them from ruining a perfectly good campaign?

There is.....sort of You need to edit the building preference so that a Geisha House is so low on the preference list, it never gets built...............unless.................you go ahead and build one yourself and start training geisha.

There was just such a discussion about this not too long ago.

I personally feel that geisha are cheesy and so I do not use them myself nor do I permit the AI to use them. However, if you feel that you must have them in the game there are certain tactics to deal with them.

First and foremost, you must seek out and destroy geisha lairs no matter who has them, and even if it means starting a war with someone you'd rather not be fighting just at the moment. Better that than suffer Caravel's fate. (If you see a geisha, even if she has not targeted you, rest assured that someday she will be aimed in your direction. Better to kill her before she gains experience as it will only get tougher to eliminate her.) Raze the place to the ground ensuring that it will take some years before a new one can arise. You can send out shinobi to scout, but source areas are quite predictable: Hojo geisha are likely from Sagami, Takeda's from Kai, Uesugi from Mutsu or Echigo, Shimazu from Satsuma or sometimes Hizen......in other words, the provinces that were the most developed at the start of the campaign, and almost always a port province. This means that you can land an invasion force, raze the facilities to the ground, and leave the very next season......no fuss, no muss, and extra cash from looting to boot.

Second, get several lvl 5 ninjas or better, asap. They have a 50% chance against a lvl 0 geisha, so one of them is bound to get her.

Thirdly, flood the province where the assassination is being attempted with mid to high level shinobi (lvl 3+). And move in a larger garrison. This will more than likely delay a successful assassination long enough for your ninja to get there.

Before I decided on the building preference edit method, that 3-step plan was just about fool-proof. I never lost either my Daimyo or an heir (on expert setting, btw). Once in a while, a minor general might fall, but the geisha's career was short-lived after that, as was the province that spawned her...

I had a very fun-filled campaign ruined by the use of geisha, although the reverse of what happened to Caravel. Early in my STW gaming career, I had a Uesugi campaign end prematurely after training up a super-geisha (lvl 6) who went happily around the board assassinating every Daimyo and heir from every clan that was still on the board at the time. So now instead of intriguing plots and nail-biting battles, it became a boring trudge across rebel-held provinces. "The thrill is gone" as the song goes.......................That was the first, and last time I used geisha.


Found it:https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=65690

[zyxophoj]

So now instead of intriguing plots and nail-biting battles, it became a boring trudge across rebel-held provinces. "The thrill is gone" as the song goes.......................That was the first, and last time I used geisha.

Lots of games have some sort of superweapon at the top of the technology tree, to prevent a defensive stalemate. Usualy it's a nuclear missile, but that would just be silly in shogun, so we get the geisha instead. It's overpowered, and it's particularly annoying in an otherwise well-balanced game.

I have no problem at all with assassinating a clan out of existence, but I try to do it with ninjas. It feels like an achievement when I manage to train a high-honour ninja and he kills an enemy daimyo. It's the possibility of failure that makes it exciting. But with the geisha, all you need to do is click on her, then click on the target... just like the nuclear missile in all those other games. No skill is needed, and the AI is hopeless at defending itself from geishas. Like you said, "The thrill is gone".