Two ceasefires ...

[Tribesman]

....and nothing achieved
Straight back to the positions both sides had before the slaughter , with each blaming the other and both claiming victory .

[KukriKhan]

...and perfect timing: 2 days before the new Yank Boss takes over, "cease fire" is called.

I guess each side wanted to get their licks in before it drew a frown from Washington.

[HoreTore]

A small question:

Were cluster bombs used in Gaza?

[KukriKhan]

The blogosphere is divided about 50-50 on that question. The major media says: "No" (so far). I haven't found any pics/video of them being used.

[rasoforos]

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video...cking.news.cnn

This video says much about the situation to my opinion...

The only purpose served is that good people, thousands of them, will turn into fanatics due to the actions of two very immoral governments.

The quota of civilians was reached and its a technical timeout for adverts...

[Fragony]

I am amazed

[Kralizec]

A small question:

Were cluster bombs used in Gaza?

Not that I'm aware of, but Hamas claims Israel used white phosphorous on one occasion.

[Che Roriniho]

Not that I'm aware of, but Hamas claims Israel used white phosphorous on one occasion.

No, they did, on the UN Building. What utter Bastards the Israelis have been. Won't let any medicine in, and they bomb the stuff that's already there.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Not that I'm aware of, but Hamas claims Israel used white phosphorous on one occasion.

Rather ironic considering that Hamas also fired white phosphorous shells. At any rate, white phosphorous is legal if used as a screening tool - and as of yet, I don't think that there is any reliable evidence that it was or was not used to screen.

[HoreTore]

Not that I'm aware of, but Hamas claims Israel used white phosphorous on one occasion.

I know the general status on phosphorous and DIME weapons, but I haven't heard much of cluster bombs... But I suppose we would know it if they did use them, as the sound they make is very distinctive, and the journalists were within hearing range of Gaza, and Gilbert and Fosse would've heard them from Shifa...

They dropped a truckload of cluster bombs on Lebanon(IIRC, almost every cluster bomb used was fired during that last day) during the last 12 hours before the ceasefire there, it'll be interesting to find out if they did the same thing this time.... And if they didn't, then why they chose not to do it this time.

[Furunculus]

No, they did, on the UN Building. What utter Bastards the Israelis have been. Won't let any medicine in, and they bomb the stuff that's already there.

do you want to dig out a link for that champ? i.e. some reputable news source that confirms that cluster munitions were in fact dropped on the UN building.

p.s. if it turned out that the israelies had not, would that alter your opinion that they had been utter bastards?

[CountArach]

do you want to dig out a link for that champ? i.e. some reputable news source that confirms that cluster munitions were in fact dropped on the UN building.

p.s. if it turned out that the israelies had not, would that alter your opinion that they had been utter bastards?

You misunderstand him - he was talking about the use of white phosphorous, not the use of cluster munitions.

Can someone explain to me what was gained out of this invasion?

[HoreTore]

do you want to dig out a link for that champ? i.e. some reputable news source that confirms that cluster munitions were in fact dropped on the UN building.

From haaretz.com:

The ground invasion was preceded by large-scale artillery shelling from around 4 P.M., intended to "soften" the targets as artillery batteries deployed along the Strip in recent days began bombarding Hamas targets and open areas near the border. Hundreds of shells were fired, including cluster bombs aimed at open areas.

Hmmmmmm.......

[Che Roriniho]

Can someone explain to me what was gained out of this invasion?

Basically nothing, except the reason for more suicide bombings. Well done Israel, you really are quite Stupid.

[Tribesman]

Can someone explain to me what was gained out of this invasion?

Well it screwed Fatah didn't it , that must have been the intention so it counts as a gain for the Israeli government doesn't it .

Hore those cluster munitions your post refers to is the bombardment of the bulldozed areas next to the prison fence to clear any possible landmines so it doesn't count on the list of war crimes commited during this pointless little middle eastern episode .

[Fragony]

well,



But I couldn't care less really.

[Guildenstern]

I am amazed

I'm amazed by the number of Gazans who died in this 22 day war.

And all this war for what? Has Hamas been weakened?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I'm amazed by the number of Gazans who died in this 22 day war.

I'm amazed by the fairly good number of Hamas militants that were killed. Good on Israel.

[Strike For The South]

*yawn*

[HoreTore]

Hore those cluster munitions your post refers to is the bombardment of the bulldozed areas next to the prison fence to clear any possible landmines so it doesn't count on the list of war crimes commited during this pointless little middle eastern episode .

Ah.

But what's the point in clearing land mines by dropping in a bunch of new land mines?

[HoreTore]

I'm amazed by the fairly good number of Hamas militants that were killed. Good on Israel.

Uhm..... And just how many was that, really? A hundred? "Wow".

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Uhm..... And just how many was that, really? A hundred? "Wow".

As I pointed out on the first page of the first thread, which was relatively close to the beginning of the conflict, even Hamas acknowledged that more than this amount of militants had died.

[HoreTore]

As I pointed out on the first page of the first thread, which was relatively close to the beginning of the conflict, even Hamas acknowledged that more than this amount of militants had died.

There are roughly 1200 confirmed kills(but this will undoubtedly rise). Roughly 400 of those are children alone. Then add in the women. Then add in the old people. Then add in the civilian male population. That doesn't leave many left for Hamas fighters, now does it?

And as an added bonus, how many thousands new recruits do you think they'll get because of this? Win-win for Hamas. A resounding defeat for Israel and the palestinian people.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

There are roughly 1200 confirmed kills(but this will undoubtedly rise). Roughly 400 of those are children alone. Then add in the women. Then add in the old people. Then add in the civilian male population. That doesn't leave many left for Hamas fighters, now does it?

Firstly, them being children does not necessarily mean that they were not Hamas fighters. Secondly, Hamas militant deaths have been estimated as between four hundred and six hundred and fifty, plus another hundred and fifty-odd police officers - which is probably a pretty good job by Israel considering the closeness with which Hamas operates around civilians.

[Scurvy]

Firstly, them being children does not necessarily mean that they were not Hamas fighters.

Hard to know how many children 'are' fighters, and how many are forced/told to do things, as with child soldiers in Africa etc. --> there will certainly be many more as they grow older, having seen what Israel did...

Hamas militant deaths have been estimated as between four hundred and six hundred and fifty, plus another hundred and fifty-odd police officers - which is probably a pretty good job by Israel

Estimated by who? --> there is not really any way of knowing how many Hamas fighters have died/ how many there were in the first place, certainly very few of the highest ranking Hamas officicals have been killed, and how many non-Hamas terrorists are still around

considering the closeness with which Hamas operates around civilians.

its not the civilians fault that Hamas happen to operate near to them...

[Tribesman]

Well done Mars , you just justified dozens of bombings in Israel .

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Hard to know how many children 'are' fighters, and how many are forced/told to do things, as with child soldiers in Africa etc.

Does it matter? They're trying to kill you either way.

Estimated by who? --> there is not really any way of knowing how many Hamas fighters have died/ how many there were in the first place, certainly very few of the highest ranking Hamas officicals have been killed, and how many non-Hamas terrorists are still around

I was tempted to provide eight or nine laughing smilies, but instead Palestinian organizations have been claiming about 650-700 of the dead as civilians, it is safe to assume that the rest are not.

its not the civilians fault that Hamas happen to operate near to them...

Not in and of itself, but it does absolve the IDF of some of the blame for killing those civilians if Hamas was firing bullets, mortars, and missiles from right next to them.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/...aza/index.html

http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default...=178&nid=15466

Well done Mars , you just justified dozens of bombings in Israel .

My turn.

[Tribesman]

Oh dear Mars , keep up to date will you . The Isreali claims featured in that CNN story were shown to be bollox and they were still bollox even after they changed their version of events three times

My turn.

So you demonstrate a lack of comprehension , congratulations
Well Mars exercise that thing in your head and see the reason exactly how you justified lots and lots of bombings in Israel .

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Aye, Tribes doþ have you þere.

[CountArach]

I'm amazed by the fairly good number of Hamas militants that were killed. Good on Israel.

And how many people saw their relatives killed for no good reason? How many of these people will become militants?