Pazyryk Horse

[Barry Soteiro]

Is there a chance to see a decorated horse like that in EB ?

[Ibrahim]

Is there a chance to see a decorated horse like that in EB ?

where is that even from? and did that really exist?

[Novellus]

I think I remember seeing a picture of a horse like that. I believe it might be Scythian, but I'm not entirely sure. But the book was focused on Classical Greece, so it might be outside of the Europa Barbarorum timeframe.

That definitely is a horse of a different color though. I'll tell you that much.

[Zeibek]

http://www.turanianhorse.org/prehistoric.html



This page has a picture of a horse with similar decorations. I don't know how reliable the site is, but AFAIK the Pazyryk culture did hold the deer in an unusually high regard, which would explain the elaborate headdress. That said the picture might be just artistic exaggeration.

Anyways horses decorated like that would be used only by the wealthiest tribal leaders and, certainly not in battle but in important ceremonies, meaning that they wouldn't make an appearance in EB as FM's. Of course then there's the little thing that the Pazyryk culture is centered around the Altai mountains, and since I haven't been able to find any dates for the site where headdresses like this have been unearthed the chronology is sketchy as well.

Offtopic: What was the cultural identity of the Pazyryk culture anyway? I've heard that they'vee been linked to Scythians, but then again their unusually close affinity with deer seems really wierd. Does anybody know of any non-Uralic people who ever practised reindeer husbandry?

PS. The site doesn't seem to be a reliable source, it says that the Scythians were an Altaic people who possibly moved to the Altay mountains from Siberia, which is complete and utter bullshit.

[russia almighty]

^I hate to stir shit up, but, since you've brought it up, haven't they've found "Scythican" objects out in Siberia?

[Antinous]

That horse is of the upper class nobles of Scythia, because of all of the decorations. This style of decorating horses died out when the sourmatians started to invade the lands of the sycthians around the black sea.

[Novellus]

^I hate to stir shit up, but, since you've brought it up, haven't they've found "Scythican" objects out in Siberia?

It wouldn't be too surprising if they did. The Scythians were traders. They even had some trades with the Greeks in some of the colonies. Of course, they were fighting each other on occasion as well.

[antisocialmunky]

'Siberia' is a big place. Can you be more specific? And yes, it would be sweet if the FM were the only one with that horse. It would make picking out that one dude so much more easy.

[Antinous]

That type of horse design would be common more in the areas east of the black sea.

[MeinPanzer]

This is a reconstruction of decorative horse furniture from a Pazyryk burial of the 5th-4th c. BC. Though the saddle, associated straps and decorations, and tail sheath are probably reflective of the equipment used by Pazyryk nobles in warfare, the headgear and mane covering are almost certainly not. The dates of the Pazyryk finds predate the EB timeframe by over a century, though, so these finds would not be directly reconstructed in EB anyway (and besides, more chronologically-fitting burials have been excavated that also include weapons, unlike the rich Pazyryk finds).

Offtopic: What was the cultural identity of the Pazyryk culture anyway? I've heard that they'vee been linked to Scythians, but then again their unusually close affinity with deer seems really wierd. Does anybody know of any non-Uralic people who ever practised reindeer husbandry?

PS. The site doesn't seem to be a reliable source, it says that the Scythians were an Altaic people who possibly moved to the Altay mountains from Siberia, which is complete and utter bullshit.

Their culture seems to be what is often (misleadingly) labeled "Scythian" or "Saka." The former term is broadly (and often carelessly) applied to various nomadic cultures from the northern Black Sea to northwestern China. The "Scythian" style of art is now thought to have emerged near the Altai mountains in Tuva around the 8th c. BC and spread from there. What can be said with certainty is that the Altai burials have a strong affinity in many ways with finds of "Scytho-Siberian" nomads - that is, the Saka who lived in south (mostly Southwest) Siberia, near the Trans-Urals. So, if you use "Scythian" as a synonym for "Indo-Iranian nomad" like many people do, then Scythian artefacts have been found everywhere from Hungary and Georgia to Siberia and Mongolia.

[Antinous]

You are right that the term sycthian is thrown around a lot.

[keravnos]

Pazyryk finds are to be used, mainly for Saka, in order to differentiate between the factions, aka Sauromatae and Parthians.

So far as their dating is concerned, there are finds which are considered to be within EB's timeframe.

[Novellus]

Pazyryk finds are to be used, mainly for Saka, in order to differentiate between the factions, aka Sauromatae and Parthians.

So far as their dating is concerned, there are finds which are considered to be within EB's timeframe.

So if the dating is within EB's timeframe, would you recommend it be put into a version of EB, or is it too rare and uncommon?

[The Persian Cataphract]

Because M2TW allows greater differentiation between mounts, for factions such as the Saka-Rauka, the examples of Pazyryk will find itself used on an inspirational basis; it is important to remind that certain findings of Pazyryk burials are similar to encountered burials in Issyk Kurgan (More famed as the site where the Golden Prince/Princess was found) in the extravagance of apparel. They do of course have their distinctions, but it is safe to say that the "Scythian" milieu between the outskirts of the Tarim, past the lakes of Issyk-Kul and Balkhash, as far as the Altai Mountains differs vastly from the Caspian nomadic tribes, and the tribes scattered across the northern Pontic basin.

Needless to say, the horses, which otherwise looked like carbon copies of each other in the RTW-engine, will be souped up considerably; with a whole new world of possibilities unlocked it would seem stupid not to take the chance.