Rome Conversion

[Dogfish]

I plan on organizing or at least contributing to a Rome conversion for Empire. I don't have many details yet, and obviously alot depends on how moddable Empire is, but post-release I will update this thread with more information. With all the capabilities of the new engine (New campaign map stuff, naval combat, etc) I think the potential is there for revisiting a different, earlier era of empires.

I haven't ever done a mod for TW, but I'm a programmer by day, and a capable 3d modeller/animator by night, so I feel confident that I'll be able to get some stuff going. Right now I'd like to gauge the interest level out there for something like this and see if there's anybody that would be interested in helping out!

What say you, Orgahs?!

[pevergreen]

Although the Roman era is my favourite period of time, I just don't see this current engine working.

The ship combat is gunpoweder, not ramming, the units are ranged. I just can't see a non gun game working too well in this engine.

I'd still like to see it.

[richyg13]

Although the Roman era is my favourite period of time, I just don't see this current engine working.

The ship combat is gunpoweder, not ramming, the units are ranged. I just can't see a non gun game working too well in this engine.

I'd still like to see it.

Those were my concerns but I think with some experimenting, you could find out how viable the idea is.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I like this idea!
Since there are galleys in the game then I don't think it would take much to make ramming possible.

[Dogfish]

Ship collisions are in the game, and they do have an effect... in the demo, during one confusing naval battle where I was testing tactics, my flagship ran into one of my 4th rates, and the 4th rate sustained pretty substantial damage... lost a mast, part of the prow broke off, and the flag flashed white once; apparently the crew was a bit rattled!

With that in mind, depending upon what variables and hooks they have set up for modding units, an ancient ship geared towards ramming could be made more vulnerable on the sides and strengthened up front, and more "weight" added so that more inertia is present when a ship is up to speed... so when these same collisions happen more damage is done... maybe even splitting the ship in two!

And then greek fire could be handled by using the mortars as a base.

It really all depends on how CA has it set up.. I know they have changed the format of some files, where initially it seems to be more difficult to mod, but then they are releasing some modding tools at a future date as well... Overall I think they realize how important the community and modding is, and will support those efforts appropriately.

[Plusi]

I think this is entirely possible. With Naval Battles, simply remove the cannon's, and just give them loads of archers, which was true to the time. I too have had some...nasty experiences with ramming!

[Jubal_Barca]

I would LOVE to see this...

[runner3434]

As for the infantry problem, the red-indians have bows, and tomahawks, i would love to see this mod, if you get anywhere PM me if you need some rough texturing.

thanks

[cwastoinand]

I would like to join, if your still planing an working on it

[Atraphoenix]

so finally one wants to create the "battle of actium"
if greek fire is adaptable it must belong to just hellenic factions or for rome as well?
I have no idea before BCs but byzantians used them after BCs.
but even to imagine ..
unexplainable :-)

[chairman]

@ Dogfish, if you are serious about going ahead with this, I would like to join as a historian, researcher and concepter.

I have some ideas regarding possible parameters, such as start date and factions. If you want this mod to be really ambitious, you might even include several different start dates. Here are some possible ones:

323 BC: the death of Megas Alexandros leaves much of the known world in chaos as his generals rush to divide the spoils.

301 BC: immediatedly before or after the death of Antigonos I

272 BC: the start date of vanilla RTW and several of its most successful mods.

220 BC: the beginning of the 2nd Punic War

Chairman

[Decimus]

Sounds Great good luck

[chairman]

Wow, I'm amazed that an idea with so much potential has such a silent thread. Dogfish, if you still want to make a Rome era mod for ETW, I'm all for it. I already listed some possible start dates. I also came up with a faction list. Here is what I have so far.

Celtic:

Aedui
Arverni
Belgae
Cassi
Brigantes
Boii
Insubres
Arevaci (Celtiberi)
Galatians
Veneti (Brittany)

Thraco-Illyrian:

Illyrians
Getae
Odrysai

Other European:

Lusitani
Caledonians
Sweboz

Semitic:

Carthage
Nabataea
Saba

African:

Mauretanians
Numidia
Meroe
Axum

Italian:

Rome
Samnites

Western Greek:

Massalia
Syracuse
Epirus
Makedon
Aetolian League
Achaian League
Sparta
Athens
Rhodes
Pergamum

Eastern Greek:

Kyrene
Bithynia
Bosphorans
Ptolemies
Antigonids (Asia Minor)
Seleukids
Baktria

Asiatic:

Pontus
Cappadocia
Armenia
Atropatene Media

Nomadic:

Scythians
Sarmatians
Parthia
Saka
Yuezhi
Massagetae

Indian:

Gandhara
Mauryans
Pandya

That is a little over fifty factions and eleven cultures (if ETW allows that many cultures), so I think it is a good starting point.

I am aware that the modding community is still learning to crawl as opposed to walking or running with ETW, but it would be efficient to start working on conceptual stuff until the technical basis is ready.

Anyway, I'm up for it. Anyone else?

Chairman

[Allu X]

I'm for it. I'm pretty sure I can skin, text edit, script and over-all mod this game (although I'm more used to modding Rome/Medieval Engine).

However, it can't be that different, and I'd love the challenge :) - Especially when it comes to the Roman era.

Ideas:

I would suggest the game runs at a 4 turns per year basis (since the engine can handle changes now).

Also the start and end date should be similar to that of the original Rome: Total War, - so that we can get to see the real, elite Romans :D.

Finally, the Americas should be removed somehow - since they won't be needed, - and as for the Naval Battles, I agree with someone above - that cannons should be removed, and archers placed aboard the ships instead.

-- We already have meele animations in the game, as well as horse archers and foot archers, - however they will probably need tweaking a bit, since Romans never fought like native Americans(though barbarians should be alright with these).

Problems:

Getting artillery into the game, i.e. Onagers/Catapults

Getting real siege equipment into the game, i.e. Ladders/Siege towers.

Finally - there are no city battles in the game. So no idea how to implement those.

[NagatsukaShumi]

Sounds good enough, I suppose a happy medium with ships would be removing ammunition and forcing them to clamber aboard one another and fight on the decks?

[Megas Methuselah]

Italian:

Rome
Samnites

I'm really liking this so far. Just opening up some thoughts about the possibility of more emergent factions in Italy.

Finally, the Americas should be removed somehow -

Aw, common! There was Teotihuacan, Tiwanaku, the Mayan city-states, the Veracruz culture, the Mississippi states (cities which actually accumulated significant power and population), and other civilizations around this time.

Getting artillery into the game, i.e. Onagers/Catapults

Getting real siege equipment into the game, i.e. Ladders/Siege towers.

Finally - there are no city battles in the game. So no idea how to implement those.

Don't forget about the pikemen, their animations need adjustments. When in combat, they pull out their swords to use as weapons rather than their pikes, and they also need a phalanx formation.

[chairman]

Alright. There seems to be at least some interest in this idea, so I have decided to put out a basic gameplan for how this mod might be developed. Since Dogfish started this thread, you are of course welcome to give input or critique. Here is how I foresee development.

Start out with only a few factions and a small map area. Work on building a informational database to grow from.
No more than 10 factions at first: Rome, Carthage, generic Celtic faction, generic Nomadic faction, Seleukids/Ptolemies, generic Greek faction.
The map would only extend from the east coast of Spain to Mesopotamia.
Early work would be focused on converting ETW features to the era: shield, slinger, javelin, bow, axe and sword animations, etc.; exploring how to change naval combat; other basic functions of the game, etc.

As this first section becomes complete, new factions and map areas would be added to development.

So, if you are interested, please let me know, either by posting in this thread or PMing me.

Chairman

[Megas Methuselah]

Alright. There seems to be at least some interest in this idea, so I have decided to put out a basic gameplan for how this mod might be developed. Since Dogfish started this thread, you are of course welcome to give input or critique. Here is how I foresee development.

Start out with only a few factions and a small map area. Work on building a informational database to grow from.
No more than 10 factions at first: Rome, Carthage, generic Celtic faction, generic Nomadic faction, Seleukids/Ptolemies, generic Greek faction.
The map would only extend from the east coast of Spain to Mesopotamia.
Early work would be focused on converting ETW features to the era: shield, slinger, javelin, bow, axe and sword animations, etc.; exploring how to change naval combat; other basic functions of the game, etc.

As this first section becomes complete, new factions and map areas would be added to development.

So, if you are interested, please let me know, either by posting in this thread or PMing me.

Chairman

We'll be introducin new theatres over time, right? i.e. India, Asia. Also, limiting the map to Mesopotamia would severely reduce the full extent of the Seleucid Empire.

Also, in the end, no region should be without a faction, while every region that's initially owned by an empire should have a possible emergent faction (for example, Etruscans for Roman-controlled Etruria).

[Swoosh So]

This will be a very difficult and frustrating task with the new engine im sure, perhaps better to work on something more achievable, even mtw2 to rome mods was causing modders problems with units iirc.

[cwastoinand]

well fist we need to know, is it possible to make new animations, and what do we have, we have bow

a throw ( granates ) and we need a stab and a slace


but i believe that there is no shield ( or range value,, am i correct, whit will make it hard to make a correct combat stimulation

[Prussian to the Iron]

i would be glad to help with this; ill try and dig up some info on skinning/modlling so i can help.


we already have bows and swordsmen(muslim swordsmen, indian axes, etc.) and i believe(dont quote me) that indian bows have damage values.

obviously, onagers would be hard, but ballistae were more commonplace anyway. ballistae would be easy to mod in; just take out the extensive loading time(you wouldnt tkae 10 minutes on fast-forward pounding in a long spear!), the blast animation, and replace the projectile, and you have yourself a winner.

the onager, though, could be a re-skinned mortar. it has the same sort of trajectory, and, if you think about it, the guys reloading drop the ball down the barrel, which could be like the guy dropping a stone onto the bowl of the catapult.

im tring to think of other stuff now

[paramedicguyer]

Ok I really think making a roman mod is pointless for ETW. THe game mechanics are completely incompatable. BEsides CA is already hinting at a R2TW using the ETW engine.
Additionally I say let the EB team deal with it, Their still on EBII which has got prolly till next summer, by then there will be likely a clear announcemnt on the next TW title. use the ETW engine as a test bed, so when R2TW comes out everyone will be ready

[Prussian to the Iron]

dude, nice necro post.

where did you find this thread anyway?

[pevergreen]

Necro? its about 2 months old in a not very active sub fora. This was still on the front page.

Necro'ing a thread from 2 years ago is necro'ing.

[paramedicguyer]

honestly I don't know. was in the EB forum and the next thing I knew I was in the ETW and then I found this thread. Considering it was old I figured everyone got the same idea and just prefered to leave it to EB or another (I don't think there are others tho, EB assimilated them all).