How is Multiplayer?

[Kenchi_Sulla]

Have you played MTW VI? Because if they scaled the running around down to the old fatigue system... i'd love it, and also threw the kill rates down (I have no idea if this was balanced in MP with valor/armor or not). And I disliked the chargefest that the powerful charges rome-m2tw made... but I haven't played Empires yet...

Are the formation problems worse than they were in Rome and M2 (first ranks only charging and cavalry fanning out to never group back in and actually attack the unit they're supposed to be attacking)?

I haven't really noticed speed problems with the units so far. Cavalry charges as a unit. It just takes you some time to disengage, which is fine I think. Kill rate in shooting and melee seems good to me. Ofcourse if you like amazing slaughtering charges and cavalry blobbing you'll be dissapointed.

Artillery, which was a major concern to me, is really fun to use. Its a tactical asset on the battlefield but they are vulnerable as well. I find they are most vulnerable to sharpshooter units (skirmishers).

Also, they seem to have balanced the game around the "medium" and "large" money settings we get.

I am a happy camper so far. I would like to hear other peoples opinions on how to improve though

[Tomisama]

I couldn’t believe when I saw that people were complaining about no lobby or chat in the lobby.

The game is inside one of the largest game player lobbies on the planet, it’s called Steam.

You can see everyone interested in the game, if they are online, see if they are playing, send them a message, chat in text or voice, all both inside and out side the game you may be in.

You can create groups, join groups, and create friends lists of people both inside and out side your groups, create group chat rooms and invite people, or get invited.

The possibilities to find and communicate are basically unlimited.

Check my signature link below. You will see I belong to 5 groups.

Empire Total War at 1, 074 members

Empire Multiplayer at 122 members

Code of Honour at 18 members

Clan Wars Competition at 11 Members

The Imperial Guard at 4 members

Plus 12 friends

That's 1,241 people that play Empire, that I have literally at my fingertips (some of course are in multiple groups) .

Not to mention that all active games are visible, and have possibilities to join or watch with players I may or may not already know yet.

And if you don’t have time to chat, and just want to find a quick game, Steam will set up a match for you in minutes.

Who needs a lobby?

[RTKBarrett]

Have you played MTW VI? Because if they scaled the running around down to the old fatigue system... i'd love it, and also threw the kill rates down (I have no idea if this was balanced in MP with valor/armor or not). And I disliked the chargefest that the powerful charges rome-m2tw made... but I haven't played Empires yet...

Are the formation problems worse than they were in Rome and M2 (first ranks only charging and cavalry fanning out to never group back in and actually attack the unit they're supposed to be attacking)?

Yes i have played mtw and VI and from what i can remember, the fatigue system was nowhere near as drastic as this... picture the scenario. You have just lost all your artillery pieces and begin walking up the map towards the enemy line... naturally with 200 or so metres to go u speed up to engage with a frontal charge. Your cavalry at this point will be be warmed up, which is not unusual. However when engaging with another cavalry unit quick signs being to appear that your cavalry are not up to the task *whether they are superior or not statistically wise*. Thirty seconds of melee and the unit becomes tired, very tired and finally exhausted. Any flank from an infantry firing will rout the unit engaged instantly which is to be expected.

However if your unit survives and routs the enemy, you are left with a useless unit as:

A) Its charge has no punch whatsoever, less so than any heavy cav fully exhausted in mtw
B) Some soldiers of the unit wont respond and will walk whilst the others "sprint"
C) Infantry will still be fresh/warmed up and can easily finish off the unit

As far as the formation changes. It seems that units will sometimes "forget" orders and will hang back.. ive sometimes rushed in with 5 units of line inf thinking "wait, wheres my 6th?!"...

Oh he has the order on the UI card and when i press space to confirm his course of direction, its there. However hes not interested.

The kill rates in skirmish are reasonably high but charging headfirst into a volley is pretty much suicidal.. which makes this game pretty static, sit still and watch your men shoot. If you move to counter a position and get shot... you will lose any benefit of a ridge with the losses sustained.

If you ever played NTW, you will be upset to know that the lordz mod is superior in pretty much all forms of gameplay. Artillery are accurate to the point where they can be considered balanced and not luck factored. Infantry skirmishing abilities are strong but kill rates are low giving more variety and time to prepare a charge. Cavalry pack a punch and have reasonable stamina levels.

You might be able to tell i am extremely dissapointed with this game...

[Crazed Rabbit]

Yeah, there's no direct lobby like in MTW, but there's steam; you can chat with all sorts of individuals, join group chats, invite people to games.

Ive played four MP battles against my roommate. We're 50-50.

Report on one of the battles;

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Today, I got a big Polish army with 4 Winged Hussars and 5 Uhlans. He had a standard british set up ( we were in late and agreed to no arty, as it ruins the experience [at least in late era, exploding shells+mortars =mass death It forces you to charge immediately to keep your loses down or lose a significant fraction of men before you engage {and arty doesn't run out of ammo}]). He set up stakes around his army, I used my long range inf to take him out and sent my cav in through the side. I was winning until then, when my cav met the inf squares, which destroyed my winged hussars (heaviest cav in the game, I've read they had spears that let them hit past the bayonets) and other cav. My inf by that point was pretty toast, so i lost. :(

So a new game, he goes Poland I go America. Some wooded map. He's got an all light dragoon and winged hussar army. I've got a standard US army (substituted inf for arty).

Lucky for me, this map has an outcropping of rock. The only entrance is at the base of the hill. The raised part slopes up with the hill, surrounded on the three higher sides by rock:
........................
....+++++++++....
....+---------+....
....+---------+....
....+---------+....
....+---------+....
....//\\//\\//\\//....

...=grass outside of outcropping. + = rock --- = area on the top of the outcropping // = stakes

The top part of this image is higher up on the hill. So I had my four units of long rifle men set up stakes at the base - two rows of them. I hide all the rest of my army behind the stakes, except for four units of cav. I had my line inf form up into four squares right behind the stakes (as squares seem much more effective than just a line of infantry, even receiving the charge to the front [too effective]).

........................
....++++++++++....
....+----------+....
....+----------+....
....+----------+....
....+[]-[]-[]-[]+....
....//\\//\\//\\//....

[] = squares

So he's got to charge his army through two rows of stakes and into squares of line inf. First he dismounts some dragoons and charges in, getting sniped by my long rifle men behind the squares. I charge my cav into the rear of the dragoons and they run.

Next comes the grand hussar charge. He loses a third of them to the stakes, and the rest shortly thereafter. Not one of my inf units is below 50% men. It's a slaughter - 600+ of his 700+ dead, and i lose only 250 or so (mostly my cav outside the 'fort').

Good times.

CR

[PanzerJaeger]

I'm not really digging the loss of a chat lobby either, but I haven't really used steam very much to meet opponents in other games, so it may be fine.

I've played a few MP games and I'm still collecting my thoughts. I do agree with CR's assessment:

( we were in late and agreed to no arty, as it ruins the experience [at least in late era, exploding shells+mortars =mass death It forces you to charge immediately to keep your loses down or lose a significant fraction of men before you engage {and arty doesn't run out of ammo}]).

As it stands now, I think MP will need a dedicated group who agree on some standard rules. Jumping in random games has been hit or miss for me. Luckily, Steam seems to be a good way to organize such games.

[Andres]

There are some bugs to be found....

There's a thread in the Parliament where we try to group all bugs noticed by players -> "Official Org Bug thread"

Please, report every possible bug you encounter while playing.

[Swoosh So]

I couldn’t believe when I saw that people were complaining about no lobby or chat in the lobby.

The game is inside one of the largest game player lobbies on the planet, it’s called Steam.

You can see everyone interested in the game, if they are online, see if they are playing, send them a message, chat in text or voice, all both inside and out side the game you may be in.

You can create groups, join groups, and create friends lists of people both inside and out side your groups, create group chat rooms and invite people, or get invited.

The possibilities to find and communicate are basically unlimited.

Check my signature link below. You will see I belong to 5 groups.

Empire Total War at 1, 074 members

Empire Multiplayer at 122 members

Code of Honour at 18 members

Clan Wars Competition at 11 Members

The Imperial Guard at 4 members

Plus 12 friends

That's 1,241 people that play Empire, that I have literally at my fingertips (some of course are in multiple groups) .

Not to mention that all active games are visible, and have possibilities to join or watch with players I may or may not already know yet.

And if you don’t have time to chat, and just want to find a quick game, Steam will set up a match for you in minutes.

Who needs a lobby?

Totalwar does, your multiplayer group has a grand total of 122 members thats pretty poor by any standard. And for the simple fact that about 50 people here say no lobby and your the first to mention these groups. So its likely imo that new mp players may not even use the groups and not become part of the totalwar community.

The groups will have to be used ofc by the community now and its good u pointed it out, im sure most people will join these groups now, but reallly you want an in game lobby so the new players can dive straight into the community b4 they get fed up and leave with 1 off games.

I mean picture a new player getting beat in games, they have nowhere to discuss after the battle if they dont know about the groups, probably will get frustrated and leave.

On another note im waiting on some friends reports about the game and if its good ill probably buy it and sign up to these groups (for lack of a better option). I would ask that the org make these group details front page news at some point soon if they can to help the mp community get started, i mean org is 3rd totalwar page on google and in a position to get the ball rolling.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

You have to have a Lobby Tomisama. How the hell can you tell then if your buddy is doing SP or MP, or is AFK or not? I can't tell who's in MP or who's not just because they are on in the CWC group or ETW .Org Group.....

[Relic]

I've played two Quick games. One land, one sea. Won Both! :D

Great fun!

[Paolai]

About the MP balance so far I have noticed (and not only me ofcourse)

Mortars: too much powerful
Granateers: same, too much powerful.

[Kenchi_Sulla]

Noticed the same, especially mortars are a problem. I am banning them from my games untill they are fixed. Other problem is with infantry facing, im sure somebody mentioned it in bug post. Sometimes they show the rear to the enemy, even noticed it in a battle line of several line infantry once. One unit was reversed

Also noticed a problem once you loose a cart in a three cannon battery. I have trouble limbering them up when that happens (the two remaining cannon/cart combo)....

Well, these are minor issues which can be adressed I am sure of that.

[Swoosh So]

How is the actual feeling of the game? Does it have a similar feel to any of the other titles or a new feel altogether?

Some questions i have..

1) How is the grouping system?
2) How does the morale of units feel?
3) Can you enforce rules in a comp game? Im guessing if u host a game called no mortars and its a comp game somone can just join and use them regardless while the match is compeditve and recorded result.
4) How do the units respond? do the units break formation alot like in rtw and mtw with say the front ranks seperating from the back sometimes?
5) How good is cavalry in the online battles?
6) How are you guys currently arranging games vs friends?
7) Does the game have long shootouts?
8) How does terrain effect the game? like woods buildings etc
9) How would you rate this games mp compared with other titles? is it mtw1 quality mtw2 quality etc

That will do for now at least :p

[Paolai]

1) How is the grouping system?
Same as MTW2

2) How does the morale of units feel?
I like it so far

3) Can you enforce rules in a comp game? Im guessing if u host a game called no mortars and its a comp game somone can just join and use them regardless while the match is compeditve and recorded result.
Well it not depends on the game if you find a no fair player. BTW, matches are not recordered, just on you personal stats as far as I know.

4) How do the units respond? do the units break formation alot like in rtw and mtw with say the front ranks seperating from the back sometimes?
No, they respond better than in MTW2 imho.

5) How good is cavalry in the online battles?
Cavs do fine, they are not strong but you need them.

6) How are you guys currently arranging games vs friends?
I am not arranging games.

7) Does the game have long shootouts?
It depends on how many mortars are in game.

8) How does terrain effect the game? like woods buildings etc
Terrain have effects.

9) How would you rate this games mp compared with other titles? is it mtw1 quality mtw2 quality etc
Dont know, it is too early to judge imho.

[tibilicus]

I echo the limitations. Whilst I still can't play due to steam and my firewall being stubborn as I can tell it's going to be limited by seeing there is only a maximum of what, 8 infantry units? It's simply limiting game play to the same tactics as well as creating the same generic army builds.


Take Rome and BI for example, you had a range of factions and units each varying to such a degree that it created dynamics in the tactical game play. For example a faction like Lombardy would be a threat because of their armour piercing axemen, you would then have to change your tactics to adapt to that faction. For example you couldn't use your usual Saxons army as you would get eaten alive, you would have to adapt and change. Bear in mind this example might be a bit outdated as Rome/BI was a while back and my memory is vague.

Anyway you get my point, limiting the variation in factions and units makes for awfully similar game play and takes out a huge tactical side to the game. I'm all for making things balanced but that shouldn't mean cutting things down.

__________________


My thoughts from the ladder thread.

[peacemaker]

I was sort of disappointed when I went in. The multiplayer campaign isn't out. Or is it, and I'm just stupid and couldn't find it? Does anybody know if/when it will come out?

[Mars]

Susie. I guess you never played WC3 or any other Blizz game. The system here is similiar.
In the "battlenet" u can set up groups, join groups and so on...

The real benefit is, that u join a game and u get a game with a person u dont know. Its quick.

I did ask for this since years. The old Chatlobby was useless, apart from many people who wrote nonesence it was useless in most cases. I had endless player on ignore. We spent hours to set up a game sometimes. It simply took too long to get into a game.

Steam seems nice so far. In the evening i just want some games, i dont want to talk/write in a lobby.
If i want to talk with someone, i just can do it in normal chat or even voice, if i want.


Anyway, i dont think Steam is so bad.


One point i agree, is the harder start for new player, but than again, you just let Steam find u some opponent.

Problems i see so far, is the lack of no restriction. I would like to bann artillery from my games. Most Problems are alredy listed... In the end i have to admit, that the mecanics of the game are good. Just took CA 5 years to get something good out again. Rest is patchable.

The base is fine, from here it can be worked on and finalize it.


Koc

PS: Well, here is an official link where u can see the amount of player...

http://store.steampowered.com/stats

You count as long ur "online", u dont need to play ETW or be active online on Steam, the System still reads ur information and count you in.

Since every SP has to register about Steam and might not cut down his internet connection...this number are interesting.

[KukriKhan]

Heh. Looking at those Steam stats Koc linked to: it's the same as Shogun: best time for connection = midnight (my time); best time to find an MP game = Noon. So my best (California) schedule will be: work 0730-1600; sleep 1600-2000; ETW 2000-0300; short nap 0300-0600; work 0730-1600. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Hey, 45K ETW players reported = not too shabby, eh?

[Scurvy]

Really enjoyed it so far - games have been balanced and very fun, especially impressed by the timing of games, which I think is just right - and was missing from mtw2 and rtw imo,

as for the art - i don't like mortars, which are ridiculous, but the art seems okay - although it should maybe be more expensive

my only major problem is the lack of a chat lobby - but that may be because I'm not familiar with steam

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Heh. Looking at those Steam stats Koc linked to: it's the same as Shogun: best time for connection = midnight (my time); best time to find an MP game = Noon. So my best (California) schedule will be: work 0730-1600; sleep 1600-2000; ETW 2000-0300; short nap 0300-0600; work 0730-1600. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Hey, 45K ETW players reported = not too shabby, eh?

How many was online though or not just on SP? 50-100 on MP? When I was on ETW MP, there wasn't really much games up or anything.

[Mars]

How many was online though or not just on SP? 50-100 on MP? When I was on ETW MP, there wasn't really much games up or anything.

As i tryed to explain (excuse my bad english), 40k of the 44k migth be SPlayer and just have a connection. Steam counts anyone in, also all those who never are online and try to play vs other humans. Thatswhy Steam reach this high amount of player.

[Martok]

I was sort of disappointed when I went in. The multiplayer campaign isn't out. Or is it, and I'm just stupid and couldn't find it? Does anybody know if/when it will come out?

No, you're not stupid. CA has said that the MP campaign is still in early beta stage right now, and won't actually be released for a while yet (no date currently given).

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

As i tryed to explain (excuse my bad english), 40k of the 44k migth be SPlayer and just have a connection. Steam counts anyone in, also all those who never are online and try to play vs other humans. Thatswhy Steam reach this high amount of player.

I know Kocmoc, Basically it's the same thing I said. 44,000 players, that's great.... I don't care about the SP numbers, I just want to know how many are on MP.

[Lavos]

I haven't been active for some time. When Warlords fell apart at end of VI era, I just kept wandering around, returning for each new game and then quickly getting bored with it.
I've read most of the posts here regarding Empire and replies to Shooshs questions cleared a lot but I still don't know if its worth for me to buy Empire.
Maybe some answers to these questions could help:

1. If I understand correct 3v3 is out, but how playable is 4v4? Is it laggy? Does connection hold? Are small units still a must?
2. Can attacker and defender pick same faction?
3. Does player with poor cpu (or too high settings) still cause lagfest for everyone else?
4. Are penalties for stacks of units back?
5. How does cavalry work. I've seen in demo that its still quite easy to charge with cav, run away from fight, then charge again.

[AggonyDuck]

I haven't been active for some time. When Warlords fell apart at end of VI era, I just kept wandering around, returning for each new game and then quickly getting bored with it.
I've read most of the posts here regarding Empire and replies to Shooshs questions cleared a lot but I still don't know if its worth for me to buy Empire.
Maybe some answers to these questions could help:

1. If I understand correct 3v3 is out, but how playable is 4v4? Is it laggy? Does connection hold? Are small units still a must?
2. Can attacker and defender pick same faction?
3. Does player with poor cpu (or too high settings) still cause lagfest for everyone else?
4. Are penalties for stacks of units back?
5. How does cavalry work. I've seen in demo that its still quite easy to charge with cav, run away from fight, then charge again.

1. 3v3 is playable, but only on the 4v4 map. The 4v4 can be lagfree, everything just depends on the computers and the connections. I'd actually say that connection can be a bigger culprit in ETW than computer.
2. Yes.
3. Yup.
4. Wouldn't recommend it. Artillery and bullets love massed targets.
5. Cavalry is good for charging, but not too great in melee. Frontal charges need to be done against weakened isolated units to be successful. A massed charge against a fresh line of infantry will get your cavalry killed.

[Hashishin]

OMG soo many old faces -will try the game out.
Steam is not bad WC3 use it as Koc already said, so you can build up a community.
Will try the game.

Hashishin

[Hunter KIng George]

It is soooo tempting to get, though my situation is I need to get a new comp. Having the old community including my m8's return would be one "main" reason to purchase this game. One thing that kept me so attached to TW, was not just the game itself, but the community which IMO is so unique in itself. So many peeps I meet through the years and for someone that still plays MTW/VI, I am really considering getting the game. So I ask...

What are the chances the good ole times are coming???

[tgi01]

Yes exactly as Koc states Steam counts everyone who has the game started ...
But if you look at the stats of the top 6 games 4 are MP only ( no idea if Football Manager is ..)
and only ETW is mostly sp .... so the interesting thing is the potential of steam ..even more
for those of you who dont play fps : cs,day of the defeat and red orchestra started as mods, zombie panic and insurgency are free mods ... with still a 1000 ppl online ...

so with steam ETW is reaching exponentially more MP minded ppl then b4 so the potential of a big and active user community is there ..

TGI

PS: see stats below ...

Peak Today Game

101,243 Counter-Strike: Source
81,026 Counter-Strike
37,885 Empire: Total War
25,973 Football Manager 2009
19,516 Left 4 Dead
17,717 Team Fortress 2
12,909 Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II
9,730 Condition Zero
7,801 Day of Defeat: Source
4,366 Garry's Mod
2,040 Half-Life 2
2,307 Day of Defeat
2,406 Half-Life 2: Deathmatch
2,149 F.E.A.R. 2: Project Origin
1,367 Unreal Tournament 3
1,524 World of Goo
851 Zombie Panic! Source
820 Insurgency

[Lavos]

Hey Hash and Duck, really glad to see you guys still around. Also saw Trash in that other thread.

[RTKBarrett]

Have discovered that light inf sometimes aim and face in a different direction to where u may want them to >.< Means alot more uneccesary micro managing...

[YellowMelon]

I've noticed that with my skirmishers as well :(