Modifying the troops that appear in crusades

**Garnier** · 03-13-2009, 16:37

I just launched a crusade as England from Northumbria and got 8 highland clansmen, and nothing else. Naturally, I'm rather disappointed as I was hoping for Templars and other unique units that I don't already have.

Looking in the unit_prod, highland clansmen aren't even listed as possible in crusades if I'm not mistaken. This is their entry:

Code:

"CATH_REBELS(-15), CATH_LOYALISTS(-15), CATH_PEASANTS(-15), CATH_BANDITS(-15), CATH_ZEALOTS(10), ORTH_REBELS(-15), ORTH_LOYALISTS(-15), ORTH_PEASANTS(-15), ORTH_BANDITS(-15), ORTH_ZEALOTS(10), CATH_HERETICS(-15), ORTH_HERETICS(-15)"

So does anyone know how exactly these functions work? Is a negative number drastically different than a positive number, or is the difference between 5 and -5 the same as the difference between -5 and -15?

**caravel** · 03-13-2009, 20:17

Highlan Clansmen are a kind of default unit. I can only think that they appeared because the game could not find any other available unit to add to the crusade. Adding specific homelands to units causes this problem a lot as I found out.

**Garnier** · 03-13-2009, 20:25

You mean because of the valor bonus in Scotland? I am thinking about removing those anyway, is that a bad idea?

**gollum** · 03-13-2009, 21:56

This is a great idea because in valor provinces the AI is geared up to build only what he needs to get to the unit that gets the bonus there and after that he doesnt build almost anything. Typical example of this is vanilla Constantinople and vanilla Provence (that gives valor to peasants and hence never progresses beyond the fort - the AI desont even built farms despite Provence having a good income).

Taking out all valor provincial bonuses helps the AI tremendously.

**caravel** · 03-13-2009, 22:23

Originally Posted by Garnier

You mean because of the valor bonus in Scotland? I am thinking about removing those anyway, is that a bad idea?

gollum is correct in that the AI will tech up blindly to the valour bonus, to the detriment of all else, if there is one in a province. Personally though I like them. The best approach is to remove valour bonuses for elite units and replace them with bonuses for more humble units. Bonuses for Kataphraktoi and Chivalric Knights can all go, but they can be replaced with bonuses for hobilars, spearmen, archers and similar. This means the AI can tech up fairly quickly and then get on with building other infrastructure.*

To answer your question though I was not referring to the valour bonus in scotland. Highland Clansmen are unit no 1 in the unit prod file. So I think if a rebellion is triggered and the game cannot find a rebelling unit for that province, it will produce clansmen. I've seen huge clansmen rebellions in provinces like Khazar and Navarre. Also if you create a new faction and forget to assign the faction leader/heirs a unit type, his royal bodyguard will end up as clansmen. This is why I think clansmen are the "default unit".

*I'm not sure as yet if the AI does actually recover and then continue building infrastructure normally once the valour bonus unit becomes available.

**gollum** · 03-14-2009, 00:30

Originally posted by Asai Nagamasa
I'm not sure as yet if the AI does actually recover and then continue building infrastructure normally once the valour bonus unit becomes available.

In my experience;

In actuality it does continue to build up, but in such a slow pace as to be practically useless. Provence again is the best example but can cite others too.

**caravel** · 03-14-2009, 00:39

Yes provence is a good example and that one is only for peasants I think... odd.

**gollum** · 03-14-2009, 00:56

Yes - the only times i find that the valor bonus helps is for Provinces like Cyrenacia - that is not worth it agriculturally. The AI builds it enough to get the Desert Saharan Cavalry and then doesnt invest more florins there, which is good play generally. However, Egypt, Venice, Constantinople, Tripoli are all underdeveloped financially and militarily due to the valor bonuses in the campaign.

**Garnier** · 03-14-2009, 14:17

So here's a question about crusade troops..

Say I increase all of the real crusader units to +20 instead of where most of them are around -10.

Will this mean it's easier for them to find real troops and they won't need clansmen so much?

**gollum** · 03-15-2009, 18:49

The reason the game is using the Clansmen as the deafult unit is often (but not always) because they are listed as first as ALL_FACTIONS recruitable. In mods that specify precisely factions the rebel faction (FN_REBEL) ends up with Ballista and Trebuchet and peasant armies often and this is perceived as a bug - in many cases its not - its because the modders neglected to put enough units to the Rebel faction explicitly (specifying it as FN_REBEL to gether with the others in the factions association column) or implicitly (specifying ALL_FACTIONS ie including the REBEL one for those units).

If you see the orgs list of tools there is a crusader unit editor available for download. Havent used it myself, but i know that say in the MedMod Crusades were always about two stacks size and had Crusader specific units only - so it can be done.