What confirmed faction should not be in EBII?

[satalexton]

Makedonia. What a useless faction.

What should we do to him boys? *branishes xiphos*

[Tellos Athenaios]

This poll is a bit like a broken pencil.





...





Pointless.

Ah well, at least now is not "choppy choppy time".

[satalexton]

Don't forget Prince Ludwig, the master of disguises!

[machinor]

Ah, I see there are fellow aficionados.

[Zett]

Yeah what have they ever done for us? Apart from giving us a 20% health bonus and a 5% law bonus?

Yes, what have they ever done for us!? Just replace them with some strong Eleutheroi stacks or something like that. Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam.

[DaciaJC]

What should we do to him boys? *branishes xiphos*

That xiphos won't do you any good unless you brandish it, mate.

[the man with no name]

This poll is a bit like a broken pencil.





...





Pointless.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Parkev]

I don't know about you guys but I've never heard of most of these factions, and I've watched a lot of history channel, so they can't be that important. I think we can safely clump everyone, apart from the almighty world inheriting Romans, as Greeks and Barbarians, which frees up about...15 new factions which we can use to represent the leading Roman families. Of course we'll need a few new cities in Italy to house all these families, so we'll just give the map a bit of a hair cut, say north south line through the Caspian Sea, nothing important happened over there anyway.

While we're at it we might use the last faction spot (you weren't paying attention were you?) for an emergent faction, the legendary tribes of Bartix, just to keep things interesting before what promises to be a fairly hectic Roman civil war.

[Cute Wolf]

Parkev
Re: What confirmed faction should not be in EBII?
I don't know about you guys but I've never heard of most of these factions, and I've watched a lot of history channel, so they can't be that important. I think we can safely clump everyone, apart from the almighty world inheriting Romans, as Greeks and Barbarians, which frees up about...15 new factions which we can use to represent the leading Roman families. Of course we'll need a few new cities in Italy to house all these families, so we'll just give the map a bit of a hair cut, say north south line through the Caspian Sea, nothing important happened over there anyway.

While we're at it we might use the last faction spot (you weren't paying attention were you?) for an emergent faction, the legendary tribes of Bartix, just to keep things interesting before what promises to be a fairly hectic Roman civil war.

If this gonna be true, the slots are better used to represent Athenai, Sparte, Rhodos, and much Diadochian family too... btw, in this period... Romans are just a bunch of arrogant people who lived in Italia... Fortuna seems to prefer them anyway...

[Zett]

If this gonna be true, the slots are better used to represent Athenai, Sparte, Rhodos, and much Diadochian family too... btw, in this period... Romans are just a bunch of arrogant people who lived in Italia... Fortuna seems to prefer them anyway...

Agree. Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam.

[ziegenpeter]

Have you ever thought about that in EBII wich is based on MTWII the corner-factions like saba and casse will probably act much better?
well think about it.
btfw, who needs rome? ;)

[Iskander 3.1]

Alright, so I can play as the Scipii, or maybe the Brutii? And we can lump the Macedonians with the Greek cities, since nobody can tell the difference between them anyways.

[Ibrahim]

Qatabân was about the same strength as Saba by our gamestart. While the Sabaeans might have a bigger population, the Qatabân king had better control over trade resources. He was also the one carrying the title mukkarib, which inclined that the carrier was the most influential king of the region. However in an all war situation it could go either way as the difference wasn't that big, though Qatabân usually tended to be the winner untill the uprise of the Himyar. When it was largely Saba and Himyar who were contending each other. Then we still have the Ma'in and Hadramawt who were working together in a way, sort of alliance perhaps, who alone were weaker thn the Qatabân and Sabaeans but together were in league. However the Ma'in and hadramawt only tried to rival economically anf tradewise and were not under such a centralised poltical structure as the Sabaeans and Qatabân or so it seems.

I see.

If so, then it makes sense to have an extra faction there-for similar reasons to the gauls current format. Qataban or Himyar clearly are two excellent choices, based on this

[snude]

No more of those arabian desert factions, please...

There's no evidence that they ever expanded further than their core lands, of course they had a lot of trade going but all the TW engines arent really good at simulating trade empires

[bobbin]

Qataban or Himyar clearly are two excellent choices, based on this

Maybe not Himyar as they seem to have only appeared on the scene around 110bc, would quite like to see Qataban in the game though.

[/Bean\]

I don't know about you guys but I've never heard of most of these factions, and I've watched a lot of history channel, so they can't be that important. I think we can safely clump everyone, apart from the almighty world inheriting Romans, as Greeks and Barbarians, which frees up about...15 new factions which we can use to represent the leading Roman families. Of course we'll need a few new cities in Italy to house all these families, so we'll just give the map a bit of a hair cut, say north south line through the Caspian Sea, nothing important happened over there anyway.

While we're at it we might use the last faction spot (you weren't paying attention were you?) for an emergent faction, the legendary tribes of Bartix, just to keep things interesting before what promises to be a fairly hectic Roman civil war.

I think this guy gets a xiphos in the face straight after Alsatia...you're knowledge of the ancient world is entirely based on 'a lot of history channel'? Why are you here? Go away!

And stop quoting Bartix. You weren't there man! You don't know what it was like...!

[bobbin]

I think he was being just the tiniest bit ironic, unless you are too.....owww my head.

[/Bean\]

Psst...I carefully worded my response so that it would work whether he was joking or being serious...yay

[Ibrahim]

No more of those arabian desert factions, please...

There's no evidence that they ever expanded further than their core lands, of course they had a lot of trade going but all the TW engines arent really good at simulating trade empires

actually, they did try to expand their influnce accross the peninsula*, but that didn't turn out too well. problem was authority; the various tribes and even other south arabians owed none to saba', and all wanted to have the leader's status, and so just ended up cancelling each other out through intertribal and interkingdom warfare. to have more than on Arabian faction allows the option to simulate this (add fun), and to see what would happen if one of the cities won on the other...

besides, I want factional violence between two arabian factions-its kinda boring watching Arabia just become sabaean in EB1




*this went on till 525 AD, when the south Arabians were first conquered by the Ethiopeians, then finally the persians. the area remained persian till ~628AD

[Moros]

I see.

If so, then it makes sense to have an extra faction there-for similar reasons to the gauls current format. Qataban or Himyar clearly are two excellent choices, based on this

The himyar appear at the utmost end of the 2nd Cenutry BC.

[Ibrahim]

The himyar appear at the utmost end of the 2nd Cenutry BC.

yeah, my bad

[Cute Wolf]

Just hope that Casse will act as true Britons... In my M2TW games, England usually pwnd French

[lobf]

Casse. Not much evidence for their existence, even less for expansionist tendencies. I say make them a bunch of strong Eleutheroi cities. They are still a treasure chest for European factions, but you don't have united British Isles or ahistorical mainland expansion.

Yes, they're super-cool. No, they're not super-historical.

[Moros]

Casse. Not much evidence for their existence, even less for expansionist tendencies. I say make them a bunch of strong Eleutheroi cities. They are still a treasure chest for European factions, but you don't have united British Isles or ahistorical mainland expansion.

Yes, they're super-cool. No, they're not super-historical.

Everything that will be in EBII will have it's sources listed. When we are ready you can view them and give your criticism. You can't critize a mod you haven't played yet, that's not fair. :)

[Alsatia]

Agree with the above post.

I don't watch History channel, heck, I don't even have pay TV. This poll was made out of simple curiosity. May as well let you wrestle each other to the ground.

[lobf]

Everything that will be in EBII will have it's sources listed. When we are ready you can view them and give your criticism. You can't critize a mod you haven't played yet, that's not fair. :)

What, do you have some new trove of information about the pre-literate people of the British Isles? Something that I have never heard of? I'd be interested in seeing sources before the game is released. I mean, it should be a matter of pointing me in the direction of the books you're using. Unless we're dealing with more dubious "unpublished" research.

For realies, I'd love to see what you're using for sources, and I'd love to see a justification for having that faction. Is there any evidence of a unified Britain or mainland expansionist tendencies by it's inhabitants? Those were pretty important factors in the Celtiberian thread recently.

[Foot]

For realies, I'd love to see what you're using for sources, and I'd love to see a justification for having that faction. Is there any evidence of a unified Britain or mainland expansionist tendencies by it's inhabitants? Those were pretty important factors in the Celtiberian thread recently.

That was a comparison between two choices in the same area. To apply that same argument to an area that does not have that same choice is hardly decent logic.

We will release our sources when we are ready to. This may be before the release of the game, but more than likely it will be after.

However, I will try my best to make a "Lobf" copy of EBII that completely removes all reference to the british isles and any people living on it. I hope that suffices.

Foot

PS Please note that the above paragraph is an exaggaration for dramatic purposes. I include this PostScript because I know how much Lobf enjoys jumping on any percieved personal attack as proof positive of the ahistorical nature of the EB Team and the EB mod.

[lobf]

That was a comparison between two choices in the same area. To apply that same argument to an area that does not have that same choice is hardly decent logic.

I don't understand what you are referring to. Could you clarify?

We will release our sources when we are ready to. This may be before the release of the game, but more than likely it will be after.

What's the point of waiting except so that nobody can review your choices? If you are confident with your selection, you should be willing to cite your sources.

However, I will try my best to make a "Lobf" copy of EBII that completely removes all reference to the british isles and any people living on it. I hope that suffices.

Come on, man. It's like arguing with my girlfriend sometimes. I didn't say anything of the sort. I'm saying that they shouldn't be a faction, not that there should be no Britain. It makes perfect sense for them to be strong Eleutheroi cities; much more sense than having a unified British faction.

PS Please note that the above paragraph is an exaggaration for dramatic purposes. I include this PostScript because I know how much Lobf enjoys jumping on any percieved personal attack as proof positive of the ahistorical nature of the EB Team and the EB mod.

This barely makes sense. I come here to read about history. My complaints have never (or rarely) been about being personally attacked.

If your intention is to best reflect the world of 272 BC, then can someone give me a reason for including the Casse? It's not like it's a personal issue for me to not have a British faction. In fact the Casse were one of my favorite factions initially because they have a great starting position and room to expand to at their leisure. If someone can just give me a reason for their inclusion I'd back it 100%.

[Foot]

I don't understand what you are referring to. Could you clarify?

The argument you cite was whether the celtiberians were more important than the lusotannan, and whether the celtiberians should have been represented above the Lusotannan. That question is very different to whether the british isles should be represented with a faction. Your original statement was to the effect that because there was no evidence of unification or mainland expansion the british isles should not be inhabited by a faction. However the question of the representation of the british isles is in no way reflected in the argument that occured in the celtiberian thread.

I hope that is clear enough.

What's the point of waiting except so that nobody can review your choices? If you are confident with your selection, you should be willing to cite your sources.

Because only once the product is near a completed state will it be possible to establish a bibliography? No one releases the bibliography before they've written the book.

Because the logistical effort of compiling a complete list of sources and references takes time, time that is currently better spent on putting together a mod that people can play.

Because, contrary to popular belief, our main objective has never been to respond to the criticism of the doggedly persistent. It has been to make a game.

I'm sure the your theory about the team, however, will satisfy you more than any of the above answers.

Come on, man. It's like arguing with my girlfriend sometimes. I didn't say anything of the sort. I'm saying that they shouldn't be a faction, not that there should be no Britain. It makes perfect sense for them to be strong Eleutheroi cities; much more sense than having a unified British faction.

I know you read my PS, so I can't imagine how you saw fit to respond to this. However, we are not advocating in any sense of the word, a unified british faction. We seek, however, to represent to our player base the interesting set-up of tribes and identities, populations and military of a fascinating area of the ancient world. There was an idea of writing a poem to describe this island, however we realised that we were modders and so decided that it would be far better to put a faction there instead.

Has that meant that we have made some conclusions that cannot be fully deducted from the evidence we have? Yes, such is history. Have we done so more than we have for other factions? Yes. Has that been necessary? Yes. Can we not just shift that faction slot to another area where less inferences need to be made? Possibly, but then I would also suggest that we remove Hayasdan as well. The archaelogical record (at the moment) is almost non-existent for our time-period, and as for written sources, they are contradictory, unsatisfactory and annoyingly limited.

However, you seem to have become obessed with the british isles. Well done.

This barely makes sense. I come here to read about history. My complaints have never (or rarely) been about being personally attacked.

If your intention is to best reflect the world of 272 BC, then can someone give me a reason for including the Casse? It's not like it's a personal issue for me to not have a British faction. In fact the Casse were one of my favorite factions initially because they have a great starting position and room to expand to at their leisure. If someone can just give me a reason for their inclusion I'd back it 100%.

Not a personal issue. I think we'll find that nearly 100% of your posts on these forums have been about the Casse and your complaints. Talk about something else for a change. Really. Do some reading on Hayasdan and come back with your unique brand of criticism on that faction. I would relish the challenge.

Sometimes you just have to realise that we are shouting Yah-boo to each other, and there is nothing else to say on the matter.

Foot

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Makedonia, for they got conquered by the Romani.