French King's Court - SS6.2 Hotseat Council Thread

[rouroux]

The sturdy roman diplomat looks at the scene and smiles. Then he slowly bends toward his servant and says:

Look at this Andreas, can you recognize what this is?

"A fight between kingdoms of the same religion?"

More than that my dim-witted companion, it is an opportunity to gain more land... and without angering anyone. If Italy acts and conquer they Papacy, everyone will be against them. And what will there be for us in this war?

"Nothing master... this war doesn't concern us... I don't see how we can acquire more..."

Gabrielus slaps slightly the back of the head of his servant and looks at him severly.

If this war blooms, we will assist the christian kings in retaking Italy, and by doing so, maybe gain a few more provinces like Dalmatia and Croatia, which will bring us closer to our ancestral home. Now I don't believe the Basileos wishes to conquer Rome, as it would anger the same lords that would have helped us gain these territories, but having a foot back in Italy would be comforting don't you think?

"Of course master" replies the servant, rubbing lightly the back of his head...

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

John speaks up not hearing the Romans but guessing there intent
Ahh look already the Byzantines plot! I would not get to worked up over Venice my friends, I am quite sure he will understand the error in his ways and relent.

[Ramses II CP]

A small smile quirks the elegant lips of the Moorish diplomat before he speaks,

Come, come gentlemen. What's this talk of oppression and war? The Venetians merely offer to guard the Pope and ward the citizens of Rome. Would the Pope seriously reject such a grand and noble gesture? Perhaps the Venetian Doge has already spoken with your spirtual leader regarding his plans and has the good man's assent?

The Sultan has dispatched a diplomat to Rome. In the meantime my people consider the Venetians to be embarking on a glorious project of good faith towards all of Christendom, and as such they have our support, such as it is.

[Merlox]

The Fatamid shakes his head at disgust.
I have no comment toward this, As it was a mistake, or maybe he means more than he has told us.

Though, Since we are all arguing over this, I will lay down my master's map claims.



The Dark Gold is our current Empire and front lines.
The Bright Yellow is rebels, smaller insignificant Kingdoms and Sultans. Our future and claimed lands.

As you see, Our empire will include Jerusalem, but. That is considered a free zone for all religions of that sort. We will claim the holy city from the rebel and protect Jerusalem.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

John laughs once again, obviously finding this whole spectacle hilarious

I never in a waking day of my life believed I would agree with a Moslem on so much!

[The Lemongate]

The Archbishop of Reims glares at the Moorish diplomat:

Do not involve yourself in matters of the Church Moslem. Your opinions on the matter are not welcome.

The Papacy is under the protection of the King of the Franks and any who thread on his lands or incur his wrath also incur the wrath of the King. Any who dare support such actions will be considered a heathen and a blasphemer and will meet the fate God has ordained for such crimes.

I have no comment at this time on the distant lands of the Fatimids.

[Chaotix]

The Archbishop of Reims' eyes flare up when the Duke of Ancona reveals his map. His voice crashes down on the Council with terrible imprecation and menace:

Retract your blashphemous claims from the lands of the Holy See at once or you shall soon find yourself at odds with France and many members of this Council! The Holy Father is not some sort of unaligned, petty prince whose frivolous claims can be pushed aside! Should your armies dare to even set foot within his dominion, be assured that France and all those who wish to call her friend will drive down upon you with such a terrible wrath that nothing of your demesne will remain standing and your vile heresy will be wiped from the pages of the histories! It is already bold enough for you to menace your christian neighbors in Genoa, do not compound your impious greed with sins.

Turning towards the Fatimid envoy and cooling the fire of his words, the Archbishop continues:

Your demands to restrain the movement of agents in your lands is understandable, but since the Holy City of Jerusalem falls within your sphere of influence, surely, you would allow the faithful and the duly appointed representatives of the Christian Kings of Europe to have access to such an important site? It would be viewed most auspiciously if you would grant us such a right.

OOC:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I don't see what the big deal about the pope is, here. There's no more crusades, so there's not much point besides role-playing a casus belli for an excommunication. Nevertheless, if the rest of Europe highly disagrees with me, I don't really need Rome anyway. I expect that, in this case, nobody else will be making their own claims on the Papacy, then.

The Duke of Ancona, once he has returned from his unexpected and urgent business, takes a look at the scroll where the discussion has been recorded, and stands to make a deep apology.

"The Republic of Venice would wish to make an apology towards the Papal State of Rome. There appears to have been a... mistake in the intelligence that our nation has gathered as of late. The Doge and myself had been led to believe that the Pope no longer held sway over the hearts of the kings and sovereigns of Europe in this day and age. We know for sure that, should he wish to call a crusade to Jerusalem now, not a single one of you would take up arms and the cross for Christendom.

Clearly, this is not so, and I would beg the forgiveness of my peers and His Holiness himself for such a sacrilegious statement. Venice rejects all of its unjust claims on the Holy City; however, as this seems to be the only opposition, all other claims will stand. The Doge will soon be sending a private messenger to the Holy Roman Emperor to speak of the ownership of Emilia-Romagna and the city of Bologna; as he has not deigned to send his representative here yet, we have no way of knowing his own opinion on the matter."

With that, the Duke lets out a deep sigh and takes a seat.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

OOC:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I don't see what the big deal about the pope is, here. There's no more crusades, so there's not much point besides role-playing a casus belli for an excommunication. Nevertheless, if the rest of Europe highly disagrees with me, I don't really need Rome anyway. I expect that, in this case, nobody else will be making their own claims on the Papacy, then.

The Duke of Ancona, once he has returned from his unexpected and urgent business, takes a look at the scroll where the discussion has been recorded, and stands to make a deep apology.

"The Republic of Venice would wish to make an apology towards the Papal State of Rome. There appears to have been a... mistake in the intelligence that our nation has gathered as of late. The Doge and myself had been led to believe that the Pope no longer held sway over the hearts of the kings and sovereigns of Europe in this day and age. We know for sure that, should he wish to call a crusade to Jerusalem now, not a single one of you would take up arms and the cross for Christendom.

Clearly, this is not so, and I would beg the forgiveness of my peers and His Holiness himself for such a sacrilegious statement. Venice rejects all of its unjust claims on the Holy City; however, as this seems to be the only opposition, all other claims will stand. The Doge will soon be sending a private messenger to the Holy Roman Emperor to speak of the ownership of Emilia-Romagna and the city of Bologna; as he has not deigned to send his representative here yet, we have no way of knowing his own opinion on the matter."

With that, the Duke lets out a deep sigh and takes a seat.

OOC: the problem is you are still talking to a bunch of catholics nations about taking over Rome..... would not go over good then, so we responded just like they would have to these claims.

[phonicsmonkey]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

OOC: exactly, we were RP'ing. Also, the Pope will still be able to excommunicate us, with all the attendent misery that brings, so he does play some role in the game.

Regarding Crusades, as I understand it we won't be allowed to join in-game crusades called by the Pope, but there's nothing stopping us from RP'ing a crusade if we all wanted to join forces and kick some heathen ass, so long as we don't use the in-game mechanic to get free units etc.

[The Lemongate]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

OOC: and you can be 100% sure that I, for one, will be a crusading zealot - even moreso against excommunicated heathens we simply do not use the in-game mechanism for crusades and jihads because they are unbalancing

this also theoretically means that the 4th crusade is totally role-playable and that the devastation of Hungarian lands by reckless crusaders (as well as their total annihilation by the Hungarian King, is possible as well

being a friend of the pope so as not to be excommed is, in this perspective, probably even more important then in the regular games as "crusades" will be mostly left to the whims of individual players, or worse, coalition of players


Oh, and please everyone, follow Chaotix's very good example and put OOC stuff in spoilers. It makes the rest of the thread look so neater that way

[Ignoramus]

The Aragonese emissary, Garcia de Hierro, places a large document on the middle of the council's table.

Here is the Treaty of Paris, but lately signed between the Kingdom of France and the Crown of Aragon. I advise all emissaries to take note.

"The Treaty of Paris - 1080

The Kingdom of France pledges full support to the Crown of Aragon should war break out between the Christian kingdoms of Spain and the Moors.

The Crown of Aragon and the Kingdom of France will permit one emissary to reside at each other's royal court permanently in order for speedy conducting of diplomatic affairs.

The Crown of Aragon permits the presence of French clergy in her lands, and encourages missionary efforts on the behalf of the Kingdom of France.

The Crown of Aragon recognises French suzerainty over the currently rebellious lands of Gascony and Provence.

The Kingdom of France recongises Aragonese suzerainty over the Kingdom of Navarra and the Emirate of Valencia, which includes the Balearic Isles."

[Merlox]

The Fatamid would would shake his head

I just smell the scent of greed. A small kingdom obtaining a full military might of france, and use it as a children's playtoy. Hopefully he means a Defensive alliance, or we will most likely see a war declaration by aragon onto the moors very shortly, and only moors and frenchmen dying, while the aragons sit back, or help the frenchmen with the whole aragon army, which is really only 300 men at most that can throw a javalin, then run for their lives.

You have only just tried to break ties between us two religions with a proposal like that, you include the Moors so much as a violent nation, but they have not even threatened you yet. You have the nerve to try to push a nation that is well over 4 times the number of land area, and population with out even giving them something so that they could be happy with the term? You sir, Fail at proposing proposals, Here...

The Fatamid would grow a smirk on his face.

I have a new worthwhile treaty that france would be interested as well. Aragon officials commit suicide, which would cause disbandment of this so called kingdom you call it, and gives all of their lands to France. As they seem to know what to do with it better, and to get you out of this court to prevent any more of your messy proposals which just lead to anger. Yes... Oh wait... That doesn't include your say... now does it?

The Fatamid would sit down with disgust.

[Chaotix]

The Fatamid would would shake his head

I just smell the scent of greed. A small kingdom obtaining a full military might of france, and use it as a children's playtoy. Hopefully he means a Defensive alliance, or we will most likely see a war declaration by aragon onto the moors very shortly, and only moors and frenchmen dying, while the aragons sit back, or help the frenchmen with the whole aragon army, which is really only 300 men at most that can throw a javalin, then run for their lives.

You have only just tried to break ties between us two religions with a proposal like that, you include the Moors so much as a violent nation, but they have not even threatened you yet. You have the nerve to try to push a nation that is well over 4 times the number of land area, and population with out even giving them something so that they could be happy with the term? You sir, Fail at proposing proposals, Here...

The Fatamid would grow a smirk on his face.

I have a new worthwhile treaty that france would be interested as well. Aragon officials commit suicide, which would cause disbandment of this so called kingdom you call it, and gives all of their lands to France. As they seem to know what to do with it better, and to get you out of this court to prevent any more of your messy proposals which just lead to anger. Yes... Oh wait... That doesn't include your say... now does it?

The Fatamid would sit down with disgust.

The Duke of Ancona smirks at the Saracen emissary.

"Sir, have you not done the same thing, in agreeing to an alliance with the Turks?

Surely the only reason for this, besides defense, of course, is so that you might snatch away a piece of Greece once the inevitable war between the two begins? The Venetians know very well the ways of men. Luckily, for the most part our state has left greed for land in exchange for a greed for profit. Outside Italy, we have very little interest in land, besides perhaps another trading and resupplying post like Iraklion."

The Duke, blunt as a Venetian warhammer, is satisfied with his comment, and awaits the hypocrite's answer.

[Merlox]

The fatamid sighed

That was not my point of the arguement. My point is that the treaty is against just a single target, who has not done any thing wrong, For example, Fatamid and Seljuk empire against Venice, if you take Milan, or trade HRE lands, and not giving you, venice, a chance to speak your side.

That is my arguement. I have nothing against defensive alliances. His treaty is what I have a problem with. It's a provoke to war. Which we should not do.

The Fatamid just rubs his head on how blunt minded the duke really is.

[Ramses II CP]

Gentlemen, please, do not argue on our account. We are fully content with the alliance between Aragorn and France. It has always been the policy of the Moorish Sultans that men of any faith or nationality may live in peace under our rule.

[Chaotix]

The Duke of Ancona stands to speak, looks around, and notices that just about every other diplomat has dozed off. Well, as long as that scribe is awake, no one can claim he has not said the words he is about to utter.
"Venice wishes to use the castle of Tortosa, currently held by the Knights Templar, as a trading outpost in the eastern Mediterranean, so we might better receive silk from Egypt. Before we mobilize any forces, however, we would wish to know if other nations have any previous claims on the castle. Thank you."

[Merlox]

The fatamid diplomat finally has a smile on, and stands up.

Thank you for asking if this land, so close to my borders, was ok. For that, We have no problems, As long as you are there for peaceful trading. There are no problems, on part of the Fatamid Caliphate. As all we can see, You are going to make alot of westerners happy by all of the silk you will be shipping out, and we'll be excited to see western equipment!

The Fatamid would sit down.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Johns Face grows grim

so what you are asking if it is OK to attack the knights Templar? A group who has fought valiantly for many years to keep the holy land free for our pilgrims access?

Once again Venice has overstepped its bounds. If this flagrant view of attacking any bastion of Catholicism continues then England will have a very big problem with Venice. And I am sure the pope will share my view.

[phonicsmonkey]

The big Magyar Jozsef stands and shrugs.

We Magyar care not whether this castle at Tortosa is held by one group of moneylenders or another.

It is true that our allies the Venetians overstepped the mark by their declared intentions towards the Pope, but they have since clarified their position to the satisfaction of us all, have they not?

Surely England has more pressing concerns than to worry about a castle so far from their own lands.

Let the Doge worry about his relations with the Pope, it is not for your or I to decide on his behalf.

[Chaotix]

Johns Face grows grim

so what you are asking if it is OK to attack the knights Templar? A group who has fought valiantly for many years to keep the holy land free for our pilgrims access?

Once again Venice has overstepped its bounds. If this flagrant view of attacking any bastion of Catholicism continues then England will have a very big problem with Venice. And I am sure the pope will share my view.

Let the English King be assured that Venice has no intentions against Christianity. Surely it is not a problem to be taking a castle which would otherwise soon be overrun by Saracens anyway? Rather, it is a good idea, as by being under control of a larger state, the castle will be better defended. The Knights Templar are no longer under any sort of strong leadership. Sooner or later, if left alone, they would be easily conquered. By placing the castle Tortosa under Venetian rule, it remains a bastion of Christianity, and the place will prosper as well. We are doing the region a favor by taking it under our wing, and we have the full assurance of the Fatimids that they will not interfere in that small place in the Levant.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

John thinks for a minute you have a good enough point..... Fine I have no more to say on the matter.

[Merlox]

The Fatamid Diplomat would nod.

The merchant duke is right. With constant raids on islam trade. The Fatamid Empire, or even the Eastern Roman Empire would just invade the small castle and be done with it, and with that, the only Catholic region in the Levant area. The Venice though, replacing these unpredictible small group of knights. With trade, this only helps the bond grow between our two religions, with also profiting both.

Last but not least, it should bring many silks to Rome. Who knows, maybe spices will grow from that! This is one step closer of bonding our people together, and it is thanks to the Merchants of Venice!

The Fatamid would be smiling.

[Merlox]

After many days of no real news. A messenger finally comes in, and it is for the Fatamids. The Fatamid Diplomat would grab it and announce it to all of the other diplomats.

It is now confirmed that the Fatamid Caliphate has captured the Holy city of Jerusalem from the Sultan of Jerusalem and his army, As the sultan now opens Jerusalem for pilgrimage to all of Europe that is not hostile toward islam. Though We are building a Memorial Stone for the many brave soldiers and the Crown prince, who died on that day.

Other than that, We have captured other areas, but none is worth reporting. That is all we have to report, Our most noble host.

The fatamid would sit back down.

[The Lemongate]

A Frankish courrier enters the Palais' throne room through the large arched-doors. Pushing away through the crowd with his armed escort, he reaches the base of the throne. After kissing the Archbishop's ring and whispering something to his ear, he sounds a trumpet and reads aloud a decree bearing the capetian royal seal:

Oyé! Oyé! It has come to the attention du Grand Roi Philippe, Majesté Très Chrétienne et Preux Chevalier, that the Republic of Venice has declared war upon the Imperial Principalities of Italy. Following the recent marriages and alliance between the Imperial Roman family and the Frankish Crown, the Kingdom of the Franks now finds itself obliged to answer the call to arms and lend its support to the Imperial cause.

The King wishes to reassure Venice that it bears no ill will to the Republic and will only endeavour to maintain the status quo fighting only as honor and duty command.

Futhermore, the King of the Franks invites every nation that considers itself a friend of the Franks and the Empire to lend its aid to the Italian princes that were wrongfully slighted by Venice's actions.

May God bless our cause!

The courrier rolls back the royal decree, bows once to the empty throne, kisses the Archbishop's ring a second time and promptly leaves the room. Étienne de Reims, having listened with smug satisfaction to his King's decree, cannot help but crack a smile at Venice's apparent misfortune.

[Chaotix]

The Duke of Ancona would grimace at the sight of the French King's declaration.

"Very well. If you believe it is us that have been wronged, then go on believing those lies. I will have you know that if you are going to war against Venice, then you are going to war with the protectors of the Pope himself; for the Most Serene Republic has signed an agreement of alliance with the Papal State.

Furthermore, although we may seen as the aggressors here, we have only struck because the German Emperor has sought to repeatedly ignore our warnings- he has held Florence, a city which we have claimed rightfully in this Council, just as you have claimed lands in Gaul as your own, under siege for the past three years or so. Although we warned we would have no choice to war if they breached our claims and took the city, they did so anyway; naturally, by the code of honor we were bound to back up our challenge with force.

If the French King feels he can insert himself into a dispute between two nations, then I personally will invite any nation who wishes to take Venice's rightful side in the conflict. That is all."

The Duke seats himself, angered.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

John looks down at some notes in his lap.

I had almost forgotten the declaration of an alliance between the Kingdom of England, and the Holy Roman empire. (if that still holds Asinus, we never official put it into a treaty. A diplomat is heading towards you with the offer of Trade rights and alliances.) We will aid our Allies as much as possible, However, we have neither the forces or the naval power to join the fight, as well as our certain restrictions. If The diplomats would like to discuss it in private I believe that England may be able to provide some funds to the war effort, on a friendly loan of course.

The Venetians foolishness knows no bounds. I proclaim full support for my friend the Germans.

[Ramses II CP]

The boyish diplomat of the Moors quirks his lips into a gentle smile before speaking,

Good sirs, surely this is a matter that can be resolved by treaties and not bloodshed? If the Venetians have already secured their objective then let the Romans ask their reparations for the act and have done, yes? Is it really necessary to leap ahead of the wronged party in declaring sides?

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

The boyish diplomat of the Moors quirks his lips into a gentle smile before speaking,

Good sirs, surely this is a matter that can be resolved by treaties and not bloodshed? If the Venetians have already secured their objective then let the Romans ask their reparations for the act and have done, yes? Is it really necessary to leap ahead of the wronged party in declaring sides?

John shakes his head

Venice has attacked a Cristian Prince without Provocation, no matter what he says he had no good reason to attack. The only way he can end this is to withdraw from Heinrich's land, and pay the Germans for the trouble he caused. Venice is not going to accept anything less than a German withdrawal I assume, and so a war will go on.

Of course, I have very little stake in the war other than as a friend of the Germans, and if the two find a way to reach peace I will applaud them.

[The Lemongate]

Étienne de Reims nods in approval to Sir Kenneth.

As will His Majesty King Philippe.

[phonicsmonkey]

The big Magyar staggers to his feet and peers through bleary eyes at the assembled nobles, before beaming at all and and sundry and declaring,

It is I, Jozsef!

This squabble between our allies the money men and the German Romans is giving we Magyar a headache...

While we can see that the Italians are indeed the aggressor and have invaded German lands, we cannot but recognise that they were severely provoked by the Germans, who we suspect had every intention of provoking a Venetian attack, having ignored repeated attempts at negotiation by the Venetians over the disputed territories of Italy, including an attempt at mediation by our own noble King Lazslo, who finds his patience worn thin by the belligerence of both sides.

For this reason, if we are forced to pick sides we will, at this stage, side with the Kaiser and call on the Venetians to withdraw their troops and sue for peace.

However, we will not commit our own armies or money to this struggle between friends, and would also call on the Kaiser to make a deal with the money men over Florence that will satisfy both parties and lead to a lasting peace.

And we would call on all nations here, including our illustrious host, to stay out of this dispute and not inflame the situation further by involving themselves in wars in lands not their own..

OOC:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Because I'll be forced to in-game I will pick the side of the HRE, having warned both sides I would not back the aggressor. However I am staying neutral.

Edit: I forgot Florence was already HRE at the beginning of the game, confused it with Genoa, so replaced Florence with 'Italian territories' above.