Napoleon: Total War (Official Expansion Thread)

[pevergreen]

Thats not a bad idea. I'd feel a lot better about it.

However, I predict no chance of that happening. Stupid SEGA >_>

[Sheogorath]

Likewise. It'd probably be really simple to do with Steam too. In fact, you could go so far as to make the 'People Who Already Own ETW' edition Steam ONLY and sell the 'full' version retail. Then you could still sucker in the people who go for special editions.

Although if they came out with a really spiffy over-the-top version like Modern Warfare 2's I might actually purchase it.

NTW: Collectors Edition: Comes with a LIFE SIZE Napoleon in the box![/short joke]

But really, if they threw in something like, say, a miniature cannon or some nice maps, maybe an artbook, and NOT, I repeat, NOT a bunch of cool units available only to people buying the special edition, it could be quite awesome.

Alas for Sega. I'm going to see if I can find my Genesis and play some Sonic. If it still works.

[antisocialmunky]

I would preorder Special Edition NTW if and only if it came with a Napoleon/Wellington Rock-em Sock-em Robot Set.

[lancelot]

I havent frequented this board for a long time....Since CA ruined MTW2 Ive given up on this company.

Ironically enough I was going to 'pop my head in' this forum, say hello and ask if ETW was in a decent state since its been a while since its release- especially after seeing the news of this Napoleon game.

From a lot of the comments Ive seen in this thread its seems nothing has changed at CA...and its looking like its not going to either. Such a shame, Shogun & Medieval got me into strategy games but no more...

It doesnt look like I'll be returing to this brand if they are still following their 'bring out a new game before the current one is fixed' policy. Shame.

[A1_Unit]

I don't know what to think about NTW seeing as ETW isn't done...

[shirproin]

I'm very interested! I would love to find out more inforamtion related to this topic. Thanks in advance.
me too, I need more detailed info

[shirproin]

Great work .. really informative .. and thanks a lot for sharing ..
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[Crazed Rabbit]

My thoughts about NTW in comic form! (read from left to right, down, and left to right again)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

CR

[A1_Unit]

Alright I have to ask: why there are 2 Instagibbed posts after mine?

[pevergreen]

Spambots.

You should do an Australian version CR. I've got a good idea for one.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Sure, I'm open to suggestions.

CR

[Ferret]

CR sums it up perfectly, ETW is, imo, awful and NTW will likely be even worse, no matter what they say

[Monsieur Louris]

How about taking a few CA/SEGA 'volunteers' to cross the Berezina river in late November to celebrate the upcoming release of NTW? It would not fix ETW or repair their reputation but it's going to be a step towards the right direction

EDIT: Having ETW players throw vegetables at them from the banks of said river is totally optional!

[Shahed]

EVERYBODY HAS TO OPEN THE SPOILER IN CR's POST #98 OF THIS THREAD!!!

THAT is sooo spot on! Awesome! R O F L M F A O !

Maybe with N:TW you'll get a more functional (gameplay, mechanics, interface, AI etc) E:TW upgrade. That's the best case scenario. It probably will be better but it will still not be what E:TW should have been. There will definitely be problems from ETW ported over without correction. I'm willing to bet money on that and I'll be happy to lose. I'd say the GFX etc will be more "epic" but likley it's just gonna carry over errors from E:TW, that is, if the past years of CA history have taught me (and you!) anything at all.

One more thing to add. Basically what's happening here is THE SAME THING over and over again.

- They release a game. You pay for it.
- There are BIG gameplay issues and loads of annoying bugs.
- You wait, they patch.
- Release expansion + patch. You pay for it.
- You buy but you get fed up and leave.
- Even if you leave it doesn't matter to them. They still got you for your 100 bucks or whatever you paid and MANY HOURS OF YOUR LIFE. You could have been doing other, possibly better things in that time, than playing half finished games!

The reason it doesn't matter who leaves is that the sales revenue is expanding anyway. So they'll just latch the next guy and get him for 100 bucks and so forth. Obviously it's more profitable if the old players stay and buy, but CA can still run just fine without old players.

They've done this again and again since M:TW.

Only M:TW actually was very playable at the start but they never even got that game up to perfect. After that it was worse and worse, every single time new players came and paid, lost money and time, and left. Now I'm sure E:TW will get some updates but it's never going to be perfect and it's always going to have serious issues with it. Look at it now, even now the AI is just comic. I don't care how hard it is to code it, that's not the clients' (US!) concern AT ALL. I do not want to damage anyone's livelihood or income earning capacity. I do, however, have the right to demand a satisfactory product for which I have paid money that I earned! If it's not up to standard then I have the right to reject it and advise others to do the same in the interest of consumer protection and consumer rights.

Point being: The only way to even remotely influence this state of affairs is to REJECT software that does not perform well on release.

[Monsieur Louris]

Spot on. The only 'language' that's getting through is financial results. The trend of releasing half a game or chopping content that should have been there in teh first place has got to stop somewhere. I have serious doubts about their QA policy but that's another issue altogether which I'd be more than happy to discuss.

[SwordsMaster]

In a possibly fatal turn of events I got around to doing some thinking, and I have realised there might be a lot of untapped potential in the Empire engine that I hope is well used in the next installment. Some of this potential is related to features that are partially already in the game. Notably social status.

I'm posting this here in the hope that someone in CA has a lightbulb go off and include it in the game, and also because social status plays a more significant role this time around, with a republic rising to a world power for the first time in centuries.

So here goes:

At the moment the game distinguishes 2 social classes: the Ruling class and the Servant class. Exception should be made for Aristocracy as these maybe ruling or not, but they do not, in general lose their status even if not in power.

The rules:

Generals are, as a rule of thumb recruited from the Ruling class. Except when they're promoted from the ranks.

Guards, hussars, and some other cavalry are generally recruited from the Ruling class or Aristocracy.

Regulars can be recruited from the Ruling class and servant class in non-monarchies or the servant class in monarchies.

Militias and irregulars are always recruited from the servant class, prisons, etc.

The effects:

Recruiting specific types of units reduces the population of that class. If these units are destroyed, the "morale" of that class suffers, if they are successful, the "morale" improves.

Reduced morale could lead to higher susceptibility to high taxes, and, for example for aristocrats, lower production of gentlemen past a certain level, lower morale for units recruited from that class, or lower level commanders recruited if in a monarchy. Or increasing the likelihood of revolt. Also it would affect diplomatic negotiations, a beaten and depressed ruling class would be more likely to agree to peace, however disadvantageous.

For the Serving class it could lead to, for example, lower farming output, lower morale for infantry and ship crews and slower town growth.

Increased morale would lead to the opposite effects. Ruling classes in high spirits could increase the pool of ministers, the number of gentlemen, clergy, and better morale for units recruited from the class as well as less susceptibility to high taxes, etc. For the Lower classes that could include some of the same effects, more agricultural output, less industrialisation penalty, better infantry, etc.

Other effects could be, if there is a high disparity in morale between classes, civil war could break out, with the "rebel" side displaying troops reflective of its class. A class' morale would be affected by the number of generals from that class, their victories/defeats, the number of units from that class that have been annihilated or victorious, etc.

So, for example, a rebellious city could be pacified by moving a famous general promoted from the ranks and a famous veteran regiment of the adequate class into the city.


Them are just a few thoughts, but I thought that since class struggle will be more thoroughly reflected in NTW, it would be worth having a look into it...

[nameless]

But when you made that pledge I didn't expect to be facing down the reveal of (what amounts to) a $40 patch hardly five months later. IMO making N:TW a stand-alone when E:TW is still so new was a huge mistake.

Out of curiousity, what constitutes as a patch these days?

It seems like almost every expansion coming out now is regarded as an expansion that people think they are entitled to get for free ( I mean have you seen the L4D forums? holy cow. Then you got Starcraft 2 that people are crying about).

I was under the impression a patch's job is to fix up the game which CA has done and ETW is in a relatively good state, not ideal of course but the majority of it has been dealt with.

So now they are bringing in a new game that brings in new contents, systems, tech trees, characters, and campaigns so how does that add up to a patch? I'm assuming a lot of work went into that and it's new. It's not correcting something within the core.

Though since it's building up on ETW I don't think it's reasonable to price it at the same price as its mother. So ETW was 50 NTW should be 40 for example.

As for the N:TW stand-alone, who knows? We'll know by February 2010 if the game is a success or not (Though I suspect that if it's successful it'd be the golden point of what the engine is capable of if they make it work)

As for whether or not it's worth the price remember one thing boys and girls.

Patience is a Virtue. Don't ever follow the phrase, "Don't Wait! Buy it now!" Prices will always fall and since it's on STEAM it won't take long for them to slash the price 50% for some special weekend.

[Fisherking]

I took this off TWC as what is confirmed but it has been a long time since it was updated.

Please post in this thread ONLY confirmed information about CA's new installment of the TW series, providing sources as well. No speculation, spam, rants and wish-lists.


Last Update: 29/08/09

General Info

Engine: New game, engine (Warscape) based on ETW's ¹
PC only ¹

System requirements: same as ETW ⁴

Status: pre-alpha (20/08/09) ¹

Scheduled release date: February 26th, 2010 ¹

Estimated price: £24.96 / €28.38 (source)

Distribution: Retail (SEGA) and on-line (Steam) ²

Development: CA UK studio (source)

Features

Battlefield:

322 units ¹, with new art and models for every unit and uniform (source)
max 10,000 men per battle ¹

64 different faces on lowest settings ¹

Ability to repair minor damage to ships during battle ¹

Seasonal changes during game, affecting the weather which will affect gameplay (rain affecting gunpowder weapons etc) ³

Generals more important, now with a morale-boosting aura effect ¹

Napoleon has special "warcry" ability that boosts nearby allied troops morale ⁵

All Napoleon's major battles available as historical scenarios, playable with either side

Campaign:

Campaigns: Three episodic story-driven campaigns; Italy (1796-1797), Middle-East (1798 - 1801) and Mastery of Europe (Grand Campaign) (1805 - 1812), told through in-game cutscenes, with available side missions ^{1 3 6}

Playable factions: France (all campaigns), Britain, Russia, Austria, Prussia and other major factions (Mastery of Europe) ^{5 6}

Each turn equals 2 weeks ¹

Campaign maps massively scaled up, featuring many new provinces (source) and different areas and features, depending on the campaign played. ⁶

Selection of generals from a list, each one with his own attributes ¹

Attrition system; spending time in tough terrain or hostile territory will wear down your units and whittle their numbers, while constructing depots and building up conquered farms secures supplies⁵

Ability to plunder resources, that will net you more and faster than occupying them, but will make local population unhappy.

Settlement diversification: Industrial towns focused on arms, armaments and producing extra troops, economic towns producing cash and increasing supplies ⁵ and intellectual towns making people happier and spawning spies (replacement for rakes with passive, area-of-effect espionage skills). ⁴

New resources that don't provide income but other advantages remain, eg taking a particularly effective horse-breeding area improves your cavalry strength. ⁵

New diplomacy options, such as getting other nations to fight each other ⁵

Technical:

Fully integrated multiplayer modes and a complete set of online functionalities: Steam achievements, gameplay bonuses, uniform editor and voice communications ⁶

Napoleon will also integrate into Empire, adding units and new tech trees appropriately as the timeline progresses ⁴ and upgrading it with the new engine <sup>3

1</sup> : source = IGN article
² : source = Wikipedia
³ : source = Gamespot article
⁴ : source = Eurogamer article
⁵ : source = Gamestar article
⁶ : source = SEGA NTW page

[econ21]

Interesting info, thanks. A turn is 2 weeks?! I did wonder why the grand campaign stops in 1812? I thought that was more the turning point, rather than the end of the Napoleonic wars. But if a turn is two weeks, we will all have stopped playing by 1813 due to exhaustion.

I had not heard about the integration into Empire, which sounds good. Although I hope it does not imply that the "flaming pig" style anachronistic military tech of ETW will also contaminate the NTW GC(puckle guns, mortars and 24 lb artillery at Waterloo ).

Napoleon's "war-cry" ability sounds lame, although other generals having distinct abilities is intriguing. I would like to see general's abilities affecting the campaign map. Ideally, a good commander in chief would allow more stacks to be moved, to be moved further and to react better to enemy moves (including reinforce battles more promptly)[1]. A lot of Napoleon's operational success seems to have been from having Corps that marched divided, fought united as opposed to the old style of a single army marching with an enormous baggage train. There is no mention of supply in the info (except perhaps the plunder mechanic); I thought it was being introduced to the game, which would allow some of the above to be modelled.

[1]Ultimately, it would be nice to see some of this command and control stuff introduced to the battle engine too. Maybe the next generation of TW games?

[Braden]

To be honest the main reason I'm looking to this is the enhancement of the basic Empire game (mainly the ability to add structure past 1799...yay all Sharpe fans! lol). Not happy they've fidded with the game-engine...again...Why??

Ok, PC games move pretty fast in technology but to me we're at a stage now where the game is just as nice to look at as it needs to be. I don't look closely...at ground level...during a game (except to visually sight cannon) and I don't think many TW players do.

Wasted research and development to me which could have been used to help kick out a game that finished properly.

Price is a bit steep but I might wait 3 months and see if Steam do a deal at some point.

Supply notes are in there, you just have to build up siezed farm areas before progressing your campaign...no fast conquest here! (good)

[Fisherking]

Here is the newest info.

From about 19 Oct.

Joker II wrote:

Hello ladies and gentlemen,

Just bought the PC Gameplay issue of September and found some new info:

Team:
- About 70 people working on Napoleon.

Graphics:
- Improved lighting that provides a more realistic facial appearance.

Gameplay:
- Research- and techtree have gotten a complete overhaul with which you can add bonusses to for example artillery.
- Special abilities for certain types of units.

Land Battlefield:
- A better classification of terrain resulting in a better ability to use tactics.
- New buildings (farms) in which it is alot easier to get men in and out thanks to the new "garrison-system".
- Pathfinding has been drastically overhauled which will lead to alot less problems when manoeuvering troops into buildings and over walls and bridges.

Naval Battlefield:
- New types of ships and abilities of which of course allready known, that you can take out a heavy damaged warship and repair it ! Apparantly though, in the preview, they are talking about repair ships that will repair the battleship and not the battleship repairing itself (don't know whether this is correct or wrongly interpretated by the interviewer ?).

Screenshots:
Units in them look all the same so I presume that they are just place holders (was mentioned earlier by Jack Lusted related towards the first screenshots), allthough that is the case, they all look stunningly beautifull, but, as we all know, The Creative Assembly never had any problem with the graphical splendor.


Sidenote: Kieran acknowledged that Empire certainly had it's problems but that they will do everything they can to avoid having those similar problems in Napoleon.


http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/62428?page=1

The screenshots are copyrighted so they are not here...

[Shahed]

Nice job there Fisherking.

[Fisherking]

Official Napoleon website launches

http://www.totalwar.com/napoleon/?t=EnglishUK

[Sheogorath]

It looks like the Italian campaign cuts off before Suvorov shows up historically...that's really too bad. One of the greatest campaigns of the era, not to mention the fact that it was under one of the greatest generals of the century, and it's not showing up. Pah.

[Fisherking]

New info updated from TWC

You will have to sift through it to see exactly what is new...but it does give a game price.

Please post in this thread ONLY confirmed information about CA's new installment of the TW series, providing sources as well. No speculation, spam, rants and wish-lists.





Last Update: 07/11/09
General Info

Engine: New game, engine (Warscape) based on ETW's 1
PC only 1
System requirements: same as ETW 4
Status: pre-alpha (20/08/09) 1
Scheduled release date: February 26th, 2010 1
Estimated price: £24.96 / €28.38 (amazon.uk)
Distribution: Retail (SEGA) and on-line (Steam) 2
Development: CA UK studio (source) - about 70 developers working on NTW 7


Features

Battlefield:
322 units 1, with new art and models for every unit and uniform (source)
max 10,000 men per battle 1
64 different faces on lowest settings 1
Improved lighting that provides a more realistic facial appearance.
Ability to repair minor damage to ships during battle 1
Seasonal changes during game, affecting the weather which will affect gameplay (rain affecting gunpowder weapons etc) 3
A better classification of terrain resulting in a better ability to use tactics. 7
New buildings (farms) in which it is alot easier to get men in and out thanks to the new "garrison-system". 7
Path-finding has been drastically overhauled which will lead to alot less problems when maneuvering troops into buildings and over walls and bridges. 7
Special abilities for certain types of units. 7
Generals more important, now with a morale-boosting aura effect 1
Napoleon has special "warcry" ability that boosts nearby allied troops morale 5
All Napoleon's major battles available as historical scenarios, playable with either side

Campaign:

Campaigns: Three episodic story-driven campaigns; Italy (1796-1797), Middle-East (1798 - 1801) and Mastery of Europe (Grand Campaign) (1805 - 1812), told through in-game cutscenes, with available side missions 1 3 6
Playable factions: France (all campaigns), Britain, Russia, Austria, Prussia and other major factions (Mastery of Europe) 5 6
Each turn equals 2 weeks 1
Campaign maps massively scaled up, featuring many new provinces (source) and different areas and features, depending on the campaign played. 6
Selection of generals from a list, each one with his own attributes 1
Attrition system; spending time in tough terrain or hostile territory will wear down your units and whittle their numbers, while constructing depots and building up conquered farms secures supplies5
Ability to plunder resources, that will net you more and faster than occupying them, but will make local population unhappy.
Settlement diversification: Industrial towns focused on arms, armaments and producing extra troops, economic towns producing cash and increasing supplies 5 and intellectual towns making people happier and spawning spies (replacement for rakes with passive, area-of-effect espionage skills). 4
New resources that don't provide income but other advantages remain, eg taking a particularly effective horse-breeding area improves your cavalry strength. 5
New diplomacy options, such as getting other nations to fight each other 5
Research- and tech-tree have gotten a complete overhaul with which you can add bonuses to -for example- artillery. 7

Technical:

Fully integrated multiplayer modes and a complete set of online functionalities: Steam achievements, gameplay bonuses, uniform editor and voice communications 6
Napoleon will also integrate into Empire, adding units and new tech trees appropriately as the timeline progresses 4 and upgrading it with the new engine 3


1 : source = IGN article
2 : source = Wikipedia
3 : source = Gamespot article
4 : source = Eurogamer article
5 : source = Gamestar article
6 : source = SEGA NTW page
7 : source = PCGamer article

Last edited by Aradan; November 06, 2009 at 07:13 PM. Reason: Updated with new info

[Suraknar]

Sounds Interesting, and glad to see that there will be a Grand Campaign after all, the announcement really made me think there would be only story driven Campaigns.

I am interested to see the new Economics Mechanics.

And of course, still waiting on MP Campaign...

As for the Future...Rome 2 or WWI:TW could be nice, now that they have Naval Combat and all...WWI could be an interesting period and challenge.

[pevergreen]

Rome 2 revolution,
Greek time period - evolution.

[Fisherking]

Rome 2 revolution,
Greek time period - evolution.

Is this some kind of announcement?

If so do you have a link?

[pevergreen]

No, but I think thats the way they will go.

Multiple face types, enough uniform variety.

Ship combat, Rome period sells well, not a whole lot (done well) in that genre, plus it leaves them the fallback option of using the same engine for anything pre-gunpowder (or even including, depending on how they build it)

If they launch with an engine optimised for purely post-napoleonic era (tanks etc) they have no fallback time period if sales are bad. Going to a trusted genre (excluding medieval, since they've done it twice), Classical Greece had a lot of interest last time, plus it hasnt been done.

I would love linking campaigns though. Even if they did a longer time period up until the marian reforms, then depending on how you go in that campaign, the next game (not exp. pack) loads your save and continues on after marian reforms.

Lots of focus on out of rome stuff, so rome is there and not dominating, like if you were the player.

Also gives the options of believable missions.


Excuse me, just going to go hand in a resume at CA brisbane now.

[Suraknar]

Well I just reinstalled RTW yesterday...kind of nostalgic...I also liked that one because it has so many modding possibilities that were straight forward and easy to implement compared to later engines...I think RTW is still really fresh.

And EB2 is going to bring an updated Ancient Period to the MTW2 Engine...

So, after NTW and with the Ninja Assassin, Last Samurai and Ninja Turtles coming back in popularity...maybe they will finally do a Shogun 2 TW?

Wouldn't that be something?