A way to work around the lack of culture slots?

[Talleyrand]

Hello to all. I have been a fan of the mod since the 0.7x releases, but never saw a reason to participate in the discussion. However, team members have stated that the lack of culture slots is a disappointment in the development of EB II and this got me thinking. I might have come up with a way to partially work around this problem.

As far as I know culture determines the battle- and strat map models of settlements, character portraits and battle- and strat map interfaces.

In EB II castles are going to be used to represent nomad provinces and cities settled provinces. So one culture slot can represent both nomad factions and settled factions while settlement models look totally different.

The Saka and the Sauromatae share the nomadic culture slot, jet when the Saka settle down they turn into an Indo-Greek influenced people, witch has probably more in common with the Bactrians then the Sauromatae. The later might have a lot more in common with the barbarian culture than with the Saka in terms of shared interface and portraits. Of course the result is far from ideal, but by shifting the EB I culture distribution a little bit around it might just help you guys realize some more ideas.

I hope this idea is of any use fore the team and if there are any questions, please do ask.

Ps I realize that the it is more a proposal then a question but because this is my first post I can’t start a threat jet , so moderators feel free to move the post to a more appropriate location

Edit by bovi: Moved the post to a new thread.

[Tellos Athenaios]

A possible way to make a very nice addition to Nomad/Settled conversion mechanics for certain factions; but it does not really work around the culture limit because it only affects stratmap/battle map buildings.

It has no effect on the other parts of the GUI (including portraits, unit cards and most building cards), or game code or anything else.

[Apraxiteles]

I think the Pahlava do something like that in EB1

On a similar note, I recall reading that there was a way to add an extra culture slot to BI. Was this feature, despite M2TW's other similarities to BI, not carried over?

EDIT: It looks like it works for M2TW as well. Is there any reason why this method for an additional culture can't be used?

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=84736

[Alsatia]

Hurrah! More faction slots!

[Talleyrand]

A possible way to make a very nice addition to Nomad/Settled conversion mechanics for certain factions; but it does not really work around the culture limit because it only affects stratmap/battle map buildings.

It has no effect on the other parts of the GUI (including portraits, unit cards and most building cards), or game code or anything else.

A

possible way to make a very nice addition to Nomad/Settled conversion mechanics for certain factions; but it does not really work around the culture limit because it only affects stratmap/battle map buildings.

Indeed, far from ideal as I said, but its an improvement over the situation in EB I. I just pointed out that a re-evaluation of cultures as implemented in EB, with this in mind, might result in a better portrayal of some factions.
I'm confident you guys wil create a fenomenal new game just as you've done with EB I. If you decide to use it I'm happy, if not I guess we will see something even better when the mod comes out.

[Blxz]

Hurrah! More faction slots!

Culture and faction slots are slightly different.

[Bucefalo]

IIRC, in M2TW kingdoms there were 7 culture slots (south european, northern european, eastern european, middle eastern, greek, mesoamerican, one not used), that is one or two more than RTW, don´t remember now. That means that the EB team will have more culture slots to use, and for example, maybe the Carthaginians and Sabaeans won´t have to be on the same group any longer.

[Tellos Athenaios]

No, that is not exactly true. Firstly: RTW allows for 7 culture slots. Secondly: EB 1 uses 7 culture slots already.

1. Barbarian
2. Eastern
3. East Greek
4. Nomad
5. Roman
6. Semitic
7. West Greek

[Bucefalo]

Thanks, good to know that every slot is used. Then I think it was in vanilla RTW where there were only a few cultures used. Anyway, knowing this, maybe if the EB team sometime needs to include a new culture, it could be done by merging the western and eastern greeks, as they are not so radically different, aren´t they?

[fougere]

Why are Est Greek and West Greek not one cullture: they are both a hellenistic culture?

[Tellos Athenaios]

Not really. In fact, West Greek would be closer to Roman than to East Greek: you are overlooking the influence of Egyptian culture on the Ptolemaic empire, and the influence of Achaemenid court & culture on the Seleukid one. Also note that whereas "West Greek" is reasonably well defined as the culture of small local entities called polis (or tribe depending on where you go) with a strong emphasis on agricultural production; there is no such summary possible for East Greek.

And there is the matter of scale. The Seleukid empire in 272 BC stretches "from Samarkand to Sardis": even today with our modern methods to indoctrination there exists no country that big which maintains a single culture everyone from one part to another can identify with. And East Greek is a broad term that applies not just to the Seleukid Empire here. It is also used for the Ptolemaic one, as well as the Baktrian one should it develop.

Also there are the more pronounced cultural exchanges. The Ptolemaic dynasty cultivated a mixture of Greek & Egyptian symbols connected with the pantheon which in turn was linked to the royal house. The Seleucid Empire inherited the legacy of the Achaemenid one: it was definitely not thrown away. In fact, the Seleukid Empire continues the longstanding traditions set down by Sargon I: one of the royal titles was "King of Sumer and Akkad"... Imagine a Koinon Archont going to Babylon and being greeted as the King of Sumer and Akkad? Cuneiform was one of the scripts which was kept for official edicts, there are Babylonian records of Antiochos II in a style that predates him by more than 1000 years. Look at art from the period found in Gandahara... Hellenistic style clothing (the way in which folds and strokes are depicted) with Baktrian hair fashions and Indian style body. That is the kind of cultural osmosis we talk about (although admittedly Gandaharan art is one of the highlights of this process).

[fougere]

thanks you for this precision

even today with our modern methods to indoctrination there exists no country that big which maintains a single culture everyone from one part to another can identify with.

[Bucefalo]

Thanks, very well put response.

[Tellos Athenaios]

thanks you for this precision

In what way?

As I see it: Modern history is full of forceful attempts at indoctrinating people to "love/support/admire/achieve" a certain common goal, past or identity; largely because for the first time in history such large scale propaganda has been feasible: and yet dissenting opinions were & are common enough.

The considering that what you think on social & ethical issues is largely what you are taught to think (prejudice, anyone? also just count the number of "thinkers" against the number of people?) and that indoctrination is nothing more or less than teaching a set of views & priorities (teaching prejudice??)...

Culture is more than for example just a language. But to speak that language is not necessarily a requirement for identifying with a culture. The key is not whether one single culture exists; the key is whether all people think sufficiently the same so they will answer the same as the cross-section of their individual cultures would and that this cross-section could be consider the same as the "one single culture". This includes decisions on ethical beliefs w.r.t. life & death, nature, marriage, age of consent... Given that a culture may hold untold numbers of sub-cultures, I do not doubt that there is no country the size of, say, the Ptolemaic Empire in 272 B.C. for which you can say there exists not just one "super" culture but also one each and every inhabitant can identify with. It has already proved impossible in the Netherlands [asserting the Netherlands != Holland != Amsterdam], and the UK [let no Scotsman be called English], and France [similar vigorous regional sentiments and a certain dislike for the hauteur of Paris], and Italy [there exists the Liga, what more can one say?]. Try a notch bigger, then: China? Do you think the reindeer people in Manchuria identify with the city of Shanghai? Or closer to EB home: that the people living in Tibet or Kashgar will all identify with Peking?

Oh, false example of mine... Hmm, the USA then? People living in The Valley and those living in the towns surrounding the old & abandoned coal mines in Tennessee? People sunbathing on the shores close to Miami and the people fishing just south of the Bering Straits?

This is getting OT though.

[Subotan]

People living in The Valley

My immediate reaction.