Refitting the Map

[Atilius]

Are you planning to extend the map?

We've just finished doing so. The change is modest.

[a completely inoffensive name]

We've just finished doing so. The change is modest.

I am guessing that was done after the preview pic was taken.

[Megas Methuselah]

They are not. You can see in one of the previews there is a pic of the campaign screen and the mini map is shown in the bottom corner covering the same land area as EB1.

They are changing the scale of the map, though. IIRC, the campaign map in EB2 will be 1.3x larger than the one shown in EB1.

Anyone is welcome to correct my faulty memory if neccessary.

[DaciaJC]

You're correct.

Q: Is the campaign map larger?
A: Both Rome - Total War and Medieval 2 - Total War have the same hardcoded number of provinces (199), so no new settlements can be added to the game. However, the scale of map will increase (approximately 1.3x).

[risker]

We've just finished doing so. The change is modest.

Ah, I see. No Asian/Indian faction that was leaked with your occulus sigs then?





Said too much?

[Fluvius Camillus]

Thanks for all the EB timeframe/pre-islamic history sharing, this expanded my knowledge about the region in this period.

I also never wanted Saba to be removed, they fill an important power vacuum and add a culture to a part of the world. Also they prove a challenge as one of the harder campaigns and can be used to roleplay when playing other factions. They are quite unique and just shouting that they are obselete is just a kick in the face of Moros and all other members who put their time in this to study this subject and develop the area/faction.

~Fluvius

[ziegenpeter]

They are quite unique and just shouting that they are obselete is just a kick in the face of Moros and all other members who put their time in this to study this subject and develop the area/faction.

Well I think that serious criticism on factions and their value within the mod shouldnt lower the esteem of the members who worked on that faction. IMHO it would be even very egocentric if they took this personal.
I've got the impression that some forum members put these guys on a pedestal (is this a saying?).
I really love their work but a king surrounded only by bootlickers is of no value.

[Fluvius Camillus]

Well I think that serious criticism on factions and their value within the mod shouldnt lower the esteem of the members who worked on that faction. IMHO it would be even very egocentric if they took this personal.
I've got the impression that some forum members put these guys on a pedestal (is this a saying?).
I really love their work but a king surrounded only by bootlickers is of no value.

Well then there are still the reasons above why the faction should stay, also I don't think members just start on a faction, I can imagine that there were numerous discussions about faction between the mod developers themselves.

Putting someone on a pedestal is a saying I think, I know for sure in the dutch language it is (iemand op een voetstuk plaatsen). Imagine that the Sab'yn member has this question all the time from mostly new members over and over again, sometimes typing the same essay again for the people doubting the decision of having Saba on the map. Wether you have facts or arguments or ask out of the blue, the team probably discussed in their own ranks why they should be included and will probably have a large pile of reasons ready. It should be perfectly reasonable then if you can sound a bit annoyed, especially if people ask information or doubt you in a very impolite way.

Also it looks to me that the hardworking EB members deserve a decent amount of respect after all their hard work (as explained before, EB modding consumes massive amounts of time). I don't think it is hard to understand why people who sacrifice a great amount of their life for modding a game, and offering this life-work as a free download should be praised.

People you call bootlickers are something that can keep the team going wether you call them bootlickers or fans. Finally, constructive criticism is not bad, the problem is people can take it the wrong way.

~Fluvius

[DaciaJC]

Putting someone on a pedestal is a saying I think, I know for sure in the dutch language it is (iemand op een voetstuk plaatsen).

1) I believe the phrase you're looking for is "putting someone in the hot seat." That is, if I interpreted the original post correctly.

2) The EB team members have said multiple times that constructive criticism (the stress being on the term "constructive") is welcome. Look to this post as a reference.

[ziegenpeter]

Fluvius, I agree, that there have been enough reasons mentioned for letting Saba stay in the game I just wanted to say that doubting their value for the game shouldnt be forbidden because of the EB members feelings.
And I don't want to deny that the Eb team members deserve some respect, especially because they created the game I'd call my favorite videogame of all time, but we all should differentiate between that and blind "fanboyism".

[bobbin]

1) I believe the phrase you're looking for is "putting someone in the hot seat." That is, if I interpreted the original post correctly.

"Putting someone on a pedestal" is certainly a saying in Britain, it means elevating someone above normal people ie thinking they can do no wrong etc.

"putting someone in the hot seat." to me implies challenging someone to respond (ie by asking someone a difficult question your putting them in the hot seat) or putting someone in control.

[DaciaJC]

Yeah, sorry, I interpreted the post wrong. My fault.

[Subotan]

I've never played the Saby'n, but I've always liked the fact that I could.

[Moros]

Do note that we will not only portray the Sabaeans in EBII, but we will also use the new exciting features of EBII and regional units to represent the many different peoples that lived in Arabia. So don't see the inclusion of Arabia just because of Saba', but for the sake of many interesting peoples and civilisations that played their part in history. It's not because a certain part of our map is often forgotten when it comes to the ancient period, that we should as well. The Sabaeans and the other ancient yemini had much influence, were technically advanced. But they aren't the sole reason for Arabia's inclusion. There were also other peoples. Some of them were traders, others were warlike nomads and some are rather unkown. And if we think of the influence the whole of Arabia had on the world, especially economically you can't just leave it out. Culturally it was the place were Africa met India, were Greeks met Arabians, were parthians met Romans. It was the place the latter two bordered and fought for. As not only the west of Arabia was a goldmine.

Eitherway while suggestions about and on Arabia are welcome, we will not even consider removing it. Not just for the sake of the Sabaean, but also because it would be plain silly. Also don't judge the Arabians in EBII before you have seen them. They will be quite different and more diverse from the ones you saw in EBI.

[DaciaJC]

Will the Arabian desert (part of the unconquerable province in EBI) be any different in EBII?

[Moros]

No it will remain a part of Eremos. There are some province changes in Arabia though.

[lobf]

Are you being obtuse on purpose, or are you really this confrontantial? Do you really not see how it reads for us, those who have given our lives for this mod (quite literally in some cases). Are you so lacking in empathy, or is this some sort of vendetta, or something else perhaps.

I'm amazed. I really am. Your original post that I responded to really does sound like you have already formed an opinion and are simply assuming that we are talking bollocks. I can assure you that Moros knows what he is talking about, and to the detriment of his potential in other areas: he went out and found this information.

Foot

I'm a pretty confrontational person. However, I don't find it rude to ask for a source. I suppose that's just a difference between you and I.
Besides it's not like Moros has an absolutely perfect record of truth and accuracy. He's espoused some rumor and hearsay in the past. (Moros, you have also put out a ton of great info in very lucid and easily comprehensible language, so don't take that the wrong way. I've said some bullshit myself, everyone does it. That's why I ask for sources.)

What useful is knowing history, if you don´t have manners?. Knowing how to ask is as important (and sometimes more) as knowing what you are talking about. You can be completely clueless about something but ask it in a polite way, and learn something while you are at it. So Lobf you better rephrase your questions, or otherwise you will learn very few history.

I really care about your opinion.

Well thanks the General that saved me some work.

Also Lobf while I could understand you demanding sources for a claim, this is rather basic knowledge when it comes to Ancient arabia, and you could have found out yourself merely using wikipedia.

I suppose I could have, but it can be hard to find info on something when you don't really know what you're looking for. Not to mention I assumed you would have some more interesting sources than Wikipedia.

Lobf reminds me of myself when he's proudly rude like this. Luv it.

Not trying to be rude. I just don't lick people's nuts. This is a history discussion not a lamaz class.

Also, hate to revive the controversy, but I figured I should address this now that I'm back.

[Fluvius Camillus]

Wow you really are hopeless, I will not even try to explain to you what common values are...

~Fluvius

[lobf]

Wow you really are hopeless, I will not even try to explain to you what common values are...

~Fluvius

Is this representative of "common values?"

Jesus you guys are touchy.

[ziegenpeter]

Hey guys, I think this is a thing between moros and lobf. Since no Admin or Mod has to interfere, leave it to them.
And you two could take it to the PM-level.

[athanaric]

Since no Admin or Mod has to interfere, leave it to them.

Um, I guess you wanted to say "has interfered"...

[Ludens]

I don't have time to look at this thread properly tonight, so I am going to close it and check it out tomorrow.

Thread temporarily closed.

[Ludens]

I had hoped that answering the question would have taken the confrontational tone out of this discussion. Since the question has already been answered, I see no need for this thread to be reopened. If you disagree, PM me.