Broken Crescent 2.02 Hotseat - Lords of the East

[Quirl]

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A BC 2.02 Hotseat:
Lords of the East
(Previously BC 2.02 Hotseat)

Game Info:

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Participants

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12 regular players.

• Regular players may post in the Lords of the East Library story thread.
• Regular players may post in the Lords of the East Council Chambers.
• Players and Factions List:
  
  Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  This is the turn order for this game.
  
  
  

  • Eastern Roman Empire - Zim (Formerly:Ramses II CP)
  • (R.I.P.) Kingdom of Armenia - (Formerly Cultured Drizzt fan)(Eliminated: Turn 11)
  • Kingdom of Jerusalem - phonicsmonkey
  • Ayyubid Sultanate - barcamartin
  • (R.I.P.) Abbasid Caliphate - (Formerly MerlinusCDXX)(Eliminated: Turn 8)
  • Khwarezm Shah - TriforceV (twcenter account)
  • (R.I.P.) Ghazni Sultanate - (Formerly DrFitzgerald)(Eliminated: Turn 7)
  • (R.I.P.) Ghorid Sultanate- (Formerly Iron Fist, DrFitzgerald) - (Eliminated: Turn 11)
  • Rajput Empire - CiviC (twcenter account)
  • Kypchak Confederacy - Quirl al-Mustafa Mubarak
  • Imamate of Oman - Thanatos Eclipse
  • (R.I.P.) Turkish Sultanate - (Eliminated: Turn 13)
  • (R.I.P.) Kingdom of Georgia - (Eliminated: Turn 4)
  • (R.I.P.) Kingdom of Makuria - (Eliminated: Turn 7)
  • (R.I.P.) Great Seljuks - (formerly Merlox, MerlinusCDXX) - (Eliminated: Turn 28)
  • (R.I.P.) Malikate of Sindh - (Formerly: The Lemongate, Silvershield) - (Eliminated: Turn 24)

  
  

AAR writers.

• Regular players are encouraged to write AARS in the Lords of the East Library at their leisure.
• Guest AAR writers who are not regular players are free to post AARs at their leisure in the The Library, but must first contact me via PM to gain permission.
• Guest AAR writers will be given credit for all AARs they write in the The Library.
• Regular guest AAR writers will be given special consideration as backups should a regular player drop or cannot be reached.

GM Responsibilities

• I (Quirl al-Mustafa Mubarak) am, of course, the GM.
• Every 5-10 turns I will post a turn update on the development of the game.
• Every 5-10 turns I will update the campaign map featured in this post.
• I reserve the right to enforce the rules of this hotseat.
• On any issues of concern that might arise during gameplay, I reserve the right to either cast a vote for its solution or make a judgment call on my own (though, I will certainly be open to any and all advice on such issues).

Rules

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Campaign Rules. Below are the rules of this hotseat.

• We will be playing on the Long Campaign rules.
• Autoresolve will be on (meaning that there will be absolutely no fighting battles in map).
• Using spies to open the gates of settlements is prohibited. You can, however, open the gates of forts.
• Cheats are not allowed.
• Admin-enabled is on to allow me to access the saved games of missing players and to switch factions between player and AI control.
• After completing your move, please upload your save game file and send a PM to the next player in line to alert them that it is their turn. Also, please announce in this thread that you have finished your turn.
• When saving your game, please save it as "LotE-turn number-next faction up." So, for example, the first save will be sent to the Roman player, and read "LotE-1-Rome."
• Players are requested to compete in good faith and with positive sportsmanship at all times.
• “Grudge play,” or players who compete with obvious and/or malicious grudges against other players, will not be tolerated.
• It is requested that while in the Lords of the East Council Chambers you stay IC (in character) and post all OOC (out of character) comments in “spoiler tabs,” marked above as “OOC:” Role playing will not be heavily enforced in this game, but please respect other players who wish to role play as well as compete.
• Destroying buildings inside a settlement under siege is prohibited.
• Assassins may not assassinate generals.
• When sieging settlements, there are certain restrictions on siege equipment:
  
  • Balistas may only siege forts.
  • Catapults may siege everything without ballista towers.
  • Trebuchets may siege everything.

No exploits. The following exploits are banned.

• Re-loading of save game to play the turn again in a different way, or to create a different outcome.
• Surround and destroy exploit (relating to agents, also to armies or ships engaged in battle. An escape route of at least one tile must be left.)
• Deliberately setting up tribute deals which will result in a faction going more than 20k in debt.
• Deliberately exchanging territories for the sole purpose of gaining a free garrison.
• Deliberate manipulation of the diplomacy system in order to break a siege, or achieve any other unrealistic in-game outcome.
• Merchant fort/army exploit
• Attacking ships which are docked in port is prohibited.
• Deliberately sallying out to rob the attacking player of the "occupation options" screen (sallying out with a 1:4 chance of victory or less is forbidden).

All other possible exploits and/or rules may be subject to a vote by the other players.

Requirements

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• We will be playing with Broken Crescent 2.0 with the 2.02 patch. This version of the mod is compatible with Kingdoms and installs in a separate folder, allowing vanilla to still be played. Be aware that you should also have the 1.3 patch for your M2TW game.
• Each turn should be completed within 48 hours upon private retrieval and/or public posting of your move’s save game file.
• Extensions can be granted in extenuating situations at the discretion of the GM.
• After 48 hours with no contact from a player the GM will skip the player's turn. To avoid this, please arrange a sub should you expect to miss your deadline. Passwords can be reset afterward if you wish to keep your faction information private.
• If by the third turn a player cannot be reached over private PM or any other means, that player runs the risk of being permanently replaced by another player.

Signatures

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

If you have a personal preference as to which image you would like to appear in your faction banner, please tell me and I will make it happen.

Turn Updates:

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LORDS OF THE EAST
HISTORY

Turn 5

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• The Kypchaks unite under the banner of the Black Khan, becoming the Qara-Suu Khağanate; they also declare themselves as mercenaries for hire to all factions.
• In a surprising move, the Kingdom of Jerusalem and the Ayyubid Sultanate announce an alliance. They also trade Jerusalem to the Ayyubids and Damascus to the KOJ. The KOJ becomes known simply as The Crusader States.
• An alliance is brokered between the Roman Empire and the Kingdom of Armenia.
• The Roman Empire promises tribute to the Qara-Suu Khağanate in the form of 500 gold every season. The Khağanate happily accept.
• Tensions swell between the Crusader States and the Armenians over disputed claims on Antioch[1][2]. The Crusader States eventually capture the city.
• The Seljuks announce they will not be attending the Caliph’s courtroom in Baghdad, prompting ridicule from some of his neighbors.
• The Seljuks invade Georgia. Word of the invasion travels by caravan to the courtroom and some nations express their concern over the news.
• An alliance is brokered between the Turkish Sultanate and the Ayyubids.
• The Ayyubids and the Abbasids declare they are allies.
• The Seljuks destroy Georgia, ending the last of their line—the king—in Tbilisi.
• The Seljuks invade Baghdad. They send a messenger to the court, demanding the Caliph’s execution along with either vassalship or continued war.
• The Caliph has the messenger immediately executed, himself; and declares a Fatwa on the Seljuks.
• The Imamate of Oman and the Ayyubids rebuke[1][2] the Seljuks for their aggressive antics in Baghdad, but both express that they are unable to answer the Fatwa at this time.
• The Khwarezm Shah declares war on the Ghorid Sultanate.
• The Khwarezm's diplomat throws himself into the heat of the battle at Baghdad, fighting valiantly against the Seljuk invaders and achieving an overtly dramatic exit.
• The Seljuks enter Baghdad, nonetheless, and have the Caliph violently killed by dragging him through the streets.
• The Ayyubids again condemn the actions of the Seljuks and leave the court. Most, however, express their indifference to the Seljuk's conquering of Baghdad [1][2].
• The Qara-Suu reveal a plot against the Seljuks by the deceased Caliph; but express they are unbiased and indifferent to either party.
• A dispute between the Seljuks and the Crusader States also seems to be resolved.

Turn 10

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• A new order comes to the Imamate of Oman and the nation is renamed into the Admiralty of Oman.
• A new delegate comes representing the Ghazni Sultanate.
• The Seljuk diplomat mocks the new arrival and announces there will be a new Caliphate—with the Seljuks at its head.
• Soon after, the Khwarezm Shah invades Ghazni.
• Having found out about the near destruction of Ghazni at the hands of Khwarezm, the new diplomat changes allegiances and begins to speak for the Ghorid Sultanate.
• Tension swells between the Qara-Suu and the Seljuks, after the Seljuks invade lands which they promised to the Khaganate.
• The Seljuks offer the Qara-Suu assurances and tensions are eased, though not before the Kypchak representative points out an increased amount of Seljuk spies in the Steppes.
• The Ghorid Sultanate and Khwarezm Shah offer peace to one another, with the promise that the Ghorids will migrate their capital from Kabul in Afghanistan to Samurqand in India.
• Soon after, the Ghorid ambassador disappears.
• The Crusaders' ambassador cracks a joke, but his Seljuk host does not seem to have a sense of humor and old tensions arise again over Mosul.
• The Omanis release a series of tomes documenting their exploits and the rise of the Admiralty. They offer these scrolls as gifts to the court's library.
• The Seljuks mock the Omani's gifts, prompting outrage and binge drinking from the Admiralty.
• Something strange begins to occur within the new Seljuk Caliphate. Rumors spread and, in impatience for the absent Seljuk ambassador, the Qara-Suu's diplomat makes a very harsh threat to the new Caliphate.
• Soon after, a new Seljuk ambassador finally arrives in the courtroom. It is revealed that the Seljuks were overthrown by Abbasid loyalists and the Caliphate has been restored. The new ambassador then makes amends with the Qara-Suu dignitary.
• An Egyptian representative finally returns after hearing of the overthrow of the Seljuks and the restoration of the Caliphate.
• The Crusaders' dignitary concludes by announcing the destruction of the Kingdom of Armenia.

Turn 15

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• The Khwarezm again invade Ghorid territory, after the Ghorids cease diplomat communication with the courtroom.
• The Ayyubid diplomat expresses his concern over Roman aggression against their allies, the Turks.
• Shortly thereafter, the Turkish Sultanate is completely destroyed by the Roman Empire.
• Land disputes occur between the Khwarezm and the Admirality of Oman.
• A new Roman ambassador enters the court, announcing that his Emperor, Manuel, is ill and has left his empire in the care of his general, Koulianos Kalananos.
• The Qara-Suu woman greets this new arrival. Shortly afterward, she announces a state of war between the Qara-Suu and the new Seljuk Caliphate, citing a contract with an undisclosed employer.
• Word from the far east indicate that the Malikate of Sindh is rising and have come under new leadership.
• The Crusader States' diplomat, Orloomo Bloom, has been absent from the courtroom for several days, along with the entire Latin delegation.

Turn 20

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• The Solanki Rajputs announce that they have captured Delhi, uniting eastern India under their rule. They also express disappointment in the Qara-Suu's refusal to exchange map information.
• The Qara-Suu's ambassador announces that she is pleased to hear of the Rajput successes, but that she feels no need to exchange map information. More words are exchanged between the two. [1][2]
• The Qara-Suu woman updates the court on her nation's war with the Seljuk Caliphate, announcing that Tbilisi, Yerevan, Dvin, Shamakha, Ganja, Ardabil, and Tabriz are under siege. During the Qara-Suu's conquest of Seljuk territories, many bloody battles ensue. [1][2][3]
• A letter arrives from the Maharaja, announcing that the nation wishes to open up peaceful relations and trade with the Khwarezm Shahdom and the Malikate of Sindh.
• Orloomo Bland returns to the courtroom, accompanied by a host of Crusaders and King Baldwin himself. Baghdad is taken by the Crusader States and the Seljuk Caliph flees. Later on, it is revealed that Orloomo Bland had been a Crusader spy the entire time.
• Yet, as the Crusader States continue to successfully wage war against the Muslim Caliphate, a more personal friendship is threatened. [1][2][3]
• The Qara-Suu woman welcomes Orloomo back to the court, hoping aloud that he can defend the great city better than its predecessors could.
• The Maharajah announce that their growing nation is to be renamed The Rajput Empire in testament to its growing success and power.
• The Qara-Suu woman offers aid to the Roman empire in sieging nearby rebel settlements. She also presents the courtroom with another business proposition.
• A diplomat arrives from the Malikate of Sindh, announcing that his nation has abandoned Islam and has converted to Buddhism. He also states his peaceful intentions to the courtroom before taking his seat. Soon afterward, the man leaves for pilgrimage.
• The sudden departure of the Sindh diplomat prompts some in the Omani delegation to drink, citing how much they already miss the man they barely had gotten to know.

Turn 25

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• The Khwarezm diplomat enters the chamber, offering an alliance to the Qara-Suu, promises of peace to the Rajput Empire, and warm greetings to the new Malikate of Sindh.
• Orloomo Bland and the Qara-Suu woman extend their greetings to the Khwarezm diplomat; the Qara-Suu woman also accepts the prospect of alliance.
• Meanwhile, the new King of Baghdad, Baldwin IV of Jerusalem, abandons himself to Muslim literature in the great library of Baghdad. It is said he spends most of his days here.
• In her private chambers, Kamelya Kadri reveals the origins of the Qara-Khan, Nasreddîn Tasköprülüzâde, to her servant boy.
• Back in Europe, Pope Urban III and Henry the Lion conspire to each rule Jerusalem and Germany, respectively.
• New "diplomatic assistants" for the Admiralty of Oman enter the court--Zurm and Em. After introducing themselves and arguing with each other, they take their place among the dead Caliph's court.
• A new Sindhi diplomat arrives--a mercenary of apparently noble birth. After introducing himself, he also takes his seat amongst the court.
• Shortly thereafter, the Omani delegation announces that they have declared war on the Malikate of Sindh.
• The Omani delegation also announces that they have entered into an alliance with the Rajputs, calling their union The Grand Oceanic and Indian Alliances (GOIA).
• The Khwarezm diplomat calls into question the reasoning behind this war and the alliance, accusing the GOIA of being a power hungry faction.
• The Sindhi diplomat sides with the Khwarezm, citing a secret letter the Rajputs had sent them concerning a proposed alliance in response to Khwarezmian expansion.
• The Qara-Suu woman sighs at the waste of such valuable information.
• Meanwhile, as the Crusaders continue their grand war in Iran, Frederick Barbarossa's life is saved by a familiar face.
• The Omani delegate Malek addresses the concerns of the Khwarezm diplomat, stating he has no ill will against him or his nation and was unaware of the proposed alliance between the Rajputs and the Sindh. He then turns to the Sindhi delegate and delivers a not-so-subtle threat.
• The Khwarezmian diplomat delivers his reply to the Omanis, as well as announces that the alliance with the Qara-Suu has been completed.
• The Qara-Suu woman graciously confirms this new alliance.
• The Sindhi diplomat begins shouting warnings of GOIA expansionism.
• But it seems the Roman delegation is uninterested and has fallen asleep (only to be reawakened by a strike from the Khwarezm diplomat's sling shot).
• The Sindhi diplomat exits the courtroom--slave girl on his shoulders and pants half-fallen at his knees.
• Malek, the Omani representative, bursts into the courtroom and reveals a secret letter delivered to him by the Khwarezm. The letter proposes a secret alliance between the Kharezm and the Omanis. However, it seems the Omanis have decided to remain loyal to the GOIA and the Rajputs.
• The Khwarezm diplomat scolds the Omanis for revealing the secret letter, stating it was merely a way to avoid the coming war between his state and the Rajputs.
• It seems war between the Khwarezm and the Rajputs is inevitable, however, and the Khwarezm declare war on both the Admiralty of Oman and the Rajputs. The Omani fortress of Kerman is taken in the process.

Turn 30

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• In a masjid somewhere in Baghdad, Orloomo Bland and King Baldwin meet. A conspiracy is the works and will soon be revealed to the world.
• On the same day, Raynald de Chatillon of The Crusader States marches with secret orders to Gaza with a large host of Crusaders. It seems an invasion of Egypt is imminent.
• Amr of the Omani Admiralty arrives with a parade of royal elephants. He announces the total destruction of the Malikate of Sindh and introduces the exotic beasts of the orient to the council.
• Orloomo Bland stands and announces that The Crusader States have invaded Egypt, retaking Jerusalem and slaying the Ayyubid Sultan, Al-Aziz.
• The Omani Admiralty expresses distress at the news of this invasion, and chastises the Khwarezm Shah for warring with them instead of fighting to defend in the faith against the Europeans.
• The Omani delegates continue to drink and mock the Khwarezm Shah.
• A message arrives to Kamelya Kadri of the Ghul. It seems the Omanis have hired the Qara-Suu.
• Shortly after Kamelya makes her announcement, news spreads across the east that the Qara-Suu are hiring for a great invasion. In the deserts near Baghdad, two mercenaries ponder whether or not they should join their forces with the rising ghul... or if the rise of the ghul is in fact a heralding to something more subtle and sinister in the east.
• The Omanis continue to mock the silence of the Khwarezm diplomat, who has yet to respond. [1][2]
• The Khwarezm diplomat finally stands and delivers his reply, citing the Khwarezm victories on the battlefield over the Omani lewdness in the court.
• Meanwhile, Kamelya has been absent from the court for several days. News has spread of an invasion of The Crusader State's territories in Iran, Hamadan and Kermanshah being under siege. It seems the contract by the Omanis was a fake and the Qara-Suu's real targets were, in fact, the Latins. Their employers are still yet unknown.
• Orloomo expresses disinterest in the invasion and pities the Ghul, who he says may have been better business partners in the future had they not invaded.
• The Omani delegation continues chit-chatting about their war with the Shah.
• Orloomo Bland stands again and announces the fall of Alexandria, Bilbeis, and Aqaba, as well as the immanent fall of Qahira. He then warns the Qara-Suu to cease their invasion before the Ayyubids have no more money to pay them.
• But outside, war drums sound. Baghdad is under siege again. The Ghul have opted to stay loyal to their contract with Egypt (who it has become known are the employers of the Qara-Suu).
• Soon after the war drums sound, the Egyptian diplomat stands and declares that the Ayyubids will never surrender to The Crusader States. Also, it seems the Egyptians have scored a great victory against the Latins.
• Orloomo Bland and King Baldwin step out to look over the walls of Baghdad, seeing the host of ghul and mercenaries below. Orloomo Bland whispers a cryptic curse under his breath.
• And in the Levant, Prince Guy and Freddy talk of the invasion of Baghdad.
• As more noises spill in from the invasion outside, the Khwarezmian diplomat enters and announces a peace between his nation and the GOIA. Terms of the peace are announced and the Persian man seems saddened at the news.
• Captain Amr of the Omani Admiralty also seems disheartened, but he expresses joy at the news of peace nonetheless.
• The Roman Empire offers to act as a medium between The Crusader States and the Qara-Suu. But their offer seems to fall on deaf ears.
• In the midst of all this turmoil in the east, in India there is celebration. A new Maharaja is declared and the old one passes on into his next incarnation.
• In Baghdad, the Ghul break through the gates. The Qara-Suu take the city, but not before King Baldwin of Jerusalem makes his final stand in the dead Caliph's palace.
• As the Qara-Suu enter the city, a masked man in eccentric dress enters the courtroom. He offers to move the court to Qara-Qale, the new Ghul capital in former Tbilisi.
• The Omani delegation accept the offer of the Qara-Suu man. The other diplomats have yet to reply.
• And in the mountains of Iran, Kamelya speaks with the captured Frederick Barbarossa--revealing her grand design for the Qara-Suu and eventually killing him for speaking against her.

[Quirl]

So, first things first...

Who would like to host the council room this year?

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

very nice, looks awesome.

[Quirl]

very nice, looks awesome.

Thanks, Cultured! If this doesn't attract new members, I don't know what will!

[MerlinusCDXX]

Is there much to be done by the council host? If it doesn't take any special know-how(besides some RPing), I could do it in Baghdad.

[Quirl]

Is there much to be done by the council host? If it doesn't take any special know-how(besides some RPing), I could do it in Baghdad.

Thanks, Merlinus! Outside of RP, it would be nothing special. And I'm sure everyone would love to have the council chamber in the halls of the great Caliph.

I'll get to work writing the backstory for the Council Chambers, right away, then!

[TriforceV]

Looks like fun,
Sign me for the Ghanzi

[TriforceV]

Looks like fun,
Sign me for the Ghanzi

Ohh yeah, I'm a regular at Totalwar.net (TriforceV) same name, and some people can vouge for me who are also players of .NET

like
barcamartin,
Civic,
Kaizer Merlox

[Quirl]

Hey TriforceV. Welcome to the Org!

With the Triforce at your command, you are certainly more than worthy to wield the awesome power of the Ghaznavids. I'll put you down immediately...

[TriforceV]

Just a clarification, for this rule

# Using spies to open the gates of settlements is prohibited—though all other agent activities are allowed.

Can spies still be used to open the gates of FORTS?, or does settlement include this aswell?

[Quirl]

Just a clarification, for this rule...
... Can spies still be used to open the gates of FORTS?, or does settlement include this aswell?

That's a very good point. A vote was initially cast in the former thread to play with "No Spies and Auto Resolve on." In retrospect, however, that is kind of vague...

... in my opinion, the GM role does not make me the "king" of the hotseat. I'm only here to enforce the rules as the players see fit. So...

If anyone has any suggestions or questions regarding the rules of this hotseat, please feel free to bring them up with me either through PM or in this thread. I'll then bring up the issue in this thread, and you can either PM me your vote or post it publicly here

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

meh I say it is a bit nit picky. Seems a silly distinction between forts and settlements.

[phonicsmonkey]

I don't see any sense in banning spies for settlements but not forts. We should ban them from being able to open the gates of both forts and settlements.

Also, we should explicitly ban the merchant fort exploit, and the merchant army exploit too - basically it should not be allowed to have more than one merchant trading the same good at the same time.

[Quirl]

I forgot to mention the merchant fort/army exploit in the rules section. That one is a must (no voting there )!

Well, the rule still stands. This is a democratic hotseat, after all, so any ideas or questions should be voted on before the game starts.

Here's one that we experienced in the Commanders of the Faithful hotseat, PM: Should people be allowed to attack navies in port? I remember that was brought into question last game and should probably be decided on now, before we start.

P.S.
I won't be voting in these. That wouldn't be fair.

[TriforceV]

Well the reason I mentioned this is because, there is a big difference between a fort and a settlement.

I understand why spies should be prohibited from taking settlements, no question there. Spies opening up gates and avoiding the seiging process will morph the game into a blitzkrieg, depending on how many spies one person has.

Having said that, Forts, on the other hand.. I'm not so sure we should be quick to rule spies out in capturing these forts.

Forts can be build anywhere, especially strategic locations, chasms, bridges, rivers. and instead of a bliztkreig, we end up with a drudging-sluggish war of breaking through forts to reach your desired goal
Those who build the most forts, at the best locations, will have the advantage over others.

However, if spies are allowed to open the gates of forts, which they won't always be successful and can be defended with other spies, it would allow spies to be useful, but not overpowered since prohibition will still be in effect in regards to settlements. So while you will still need to besiege cities, and settlements (which are very important) forts that are easily built and put in many diffrent locations, won't guarantee 100% protection,

It's just a thought, Thats why I feel that spies would be the great equalizer

[phonicsmonkey]

Well the reason I mentioned this is because, there is a big difference between a fort and a settlement.

I understand why spies should be prohibited from taking settlements, no question there. Spies opening up gates and avoiding the seiging process will morph the game into a blitzkrieg, depending on how many spies one person has.

Having said that, Forts, on the other hand.. I'm not so sure we should be quick to rule spies out in capturing these forts.

Forts can be build anywhere, especially strategic locations, chasms, bridges, rivers. and instead of a bliztkreig, we end up with a drudging-sluggish war of breaking through forts to reach your desired goal
Those who build the most forts, at the best locations, will have the advantage over others.

However, if spies are allowed to open the gates of forts, which they won't always be successful and can be defended with other spies, it would allow spies to be useful, but not overpowered since prohibition will still be in effect in regards to settlements. So while you will still need to besiege cities, and settlements (which are very important) forts that are easily built and put in many diffrent locations, won't guarantee 100% protection,

It's just a thought, Thats why I feel that spies would be the great equalizer

Good points, and well made - it seems a good compromise so long as we are not allowed to fight battles.

I would be happy with this.

Quirl, I know you want this to be democratic but I think you should just make a ruling on this so we can move on and start the game without further delay.

Can I suggest you PM everyone here and at twcenter to check they are all still in the game? It's been a while since most people signed up...

[Quirl]

Well... would you mind giving it until the end of this week?

I'm really hesitant to start the game without a Turk player. Everyone else has immediate neighbors except the Romans (well, I guess the Solankis don't, but they don't start off nearly as well as Rome). And if we start the game now, since they're second up in the turn order, no one would want to be the Turks after we skip that crucial first move!

I've sent out a few more PM's, made this thread more attractive, set up a post in the Hotseat General Recruitment Thread, and even made a thread over at TWC! If none of those things gives us a Turk player by the end of this week, I'll definitely start the game.

In the meantime, though, good idea about PMing everyone to be sure they're all still in. I'll definitely do that. But since we have time, I'd like to see everyone's opinions on some of these rules before we start... if that's cool with everyone?

[MerlinusCDXX]

I'm ok with spies being able to infiltrate forts. I was wondering if the no spies/ auto-resolve only rule applies to actions against rebels/ AI controlled factions. I'd like to be able to play out battles against the AI controlled stuff, since I did mainly get this mod for the nice units, (and it helps a lot in the beginning when going up against rebels that usually outnumber and outclass you so you can at least get an economy running/ your AoR areas controlled).

[Quirl]

I'm ok with spies being able to infiltrate forts. I was wondering if the no spies/ auto-resolve only rule applies to actions against rebels/ AI controlled factions. I'd like to be able to play out battles against the AI controlled stuff, since I did mainly get this mod for the nice units, (and it helps a lot in the beginning when going up against rebels that usually outnumber and outclass you so you can at least get an economy running/ your AoR areas controlled).

I agree. Autoresolve has its appeal, but not being able to fight at all with BC's snazzy units on map is rather sad.

I'll bring that up for the others to consider as well...

[phonicsmonkey]

Well... would you mind giving it until the end of this week?

Fine with that.

I'd like to be able to play out battles against the AI controlled stuff.

Fine with that too.

[TriforceV]

I agree. Autoresolve has its appeal, but not being able to fight at all with BC's snazzy units on map is rather sad.

I'll bring that up for the others to consider as well...

Hey don't get me wrong, I love the BC's units in action and playing battlemode.

But the implications of a split auto-resolve would make things difficult.

First, there has to be a way, to turn Auto-resolve on for Human players and off for AI, I'm not even sure if this is even possible,
The only alternative is to trust people not to press the Battle mode button when attacking a human player -- and there is no real way of proving it, unless a screen shot is done for every battle.

Secondly, What about the AI?, are we talking just Rebel territories or AI Kingdoms, or both. And if your the few lucky enough to be next to an AI kingdom at the start of the game, incorporating them will give you a definite advantage. Finally if its only AI settlements, how do we prove people arn't attacking the AI Kingdoms?

Third, As much as I love battlemode, it's gotten to the point where i've seen in a previous BC hotseat, where 1 general (Shah) took on a whole army of 1000+ troops and won, granted it involved some cunning abuse of the AI's stupidity, but it just proves how broken the AI really is.

Autoresolve, might take a big chunk of the fun of BC, I'll admit, but there is a reason why we choose to have autoresolve on in the first place,
whether its human or AI, you would only be abusing the Stupid AI battlemode mechanics nonetheless. And I'm sick of watching everyone get heroic victories!!

[Quirl]

Well, when I said "I agree(d)", I mostly just meant that it's sad not being able to use BC's cool units in autoresolve only maps.

However, there are ways to police other faction's use of the autoresolve against other players. Turning off FOW is one way. Allowing me to test battles in your save files is another. It would be more difficult, but it is possible.

However, you are right in that Merlinus should be aware that people really take advantage of the A.I. and it is literally possible to beat 1,000 soldiers with 1 general (and that's actually very common in hotseats). But if everyone is willing to make that sacrifice, I'll do whatever you guys think...

[MerlinusCDXX]

I know it can be done, especially with really tough bodyguards like Rajput elephants, but I think we could let up on it against AI Rebels only. I didn't think about the advantage you get with AI factions not being next to everyone, which TriforceV brought up. It's not really any different than merc-raping the large rebel armies on autoresolve, except it's a bit cheaper.

The thing about auto-resolve, especially in BC, is that it completely discounts player skill, since 1 of the team members, in answering someone's question about the subject, had mentioned that auto-resolve wasn't taken into account during unit balancing. In fact, I believe it went something like, "Auto-resolve, why would you want to use that?". I really think some of the factions are going to get shafted in auto-resolve battles due to extremely light early troops. But with that said, I do realize why it's necessary in hotseats against other human players, since the AI can't handle a large, well balanced army without slicing off its own toes.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Personally I have to say it is probably best to stay full auto resolve.....

If we don't then those among us who are able to blitz with a single unit of Heavy cavalry will be at a huge advantage......

[MerlinusCDXX]

Personally I have to say it is probably best to stay full auto resolve.....

If we don't then those among us who are able to blitz with a single unit of Heavy cavalry will be at a huge advantage......

I disagree slightly, since it really isn't that big of an advantage, it just makes the beginning expansion go smoother. I mean, honestly, who can't win battles where they are outnumbered? I think BC takes some steps to minimize the ridiculousness of single starting general blitzes by
(1) No LoyaltyStarter trait is given to beginning FMs, so your 1 or 2 loyalty starting general is likely to rebel within 1 or 2 turns of leaving your territory
(2) captains rebel almost the moment they enter foreign territory, so that cuts out the "siege with 1 askari noble" silliness
(3) Many units from starting armies and garrisons can't be recruited or retrained by the player, so they are the perfect "throwaway fodder" to use for the opening push

I think the mod was designed to make the 1st expansion into rebel lands be a challenging series of battles where you are always outnumbered and outclassed by the enemy.

But I'll go along with whatever we decide.

[Quirl]

Well, it's really not as simple as using one general to sweep every settlement. You would still have to siege the settlement, which requires an adequate amount of troops to do so (otherwise, the A.I. would just sally out after you ended your turn, autoresolve, and repel the attack).

The real problem would be people using one army to conquer scours of settlements. But... some people don't mind that. Whatever is your guys' preference.

[The Lemongate]

I' afraid I won't have the time for this hotseat. I can barely keep up with Wrath of the Khan as it is now.

[Quirl]

I' afraid I won't have the time for this hotseat. I can barely keep up with Wrath of the Khan as it is now.

It's cool, Lemon. I kinda expected as much when you mentioned how busy you were back in the Khan thread.

Sorry you won't be able to play here, though, man. <-- epic sadness face

[phonicsmonkey]

The real problem would be people using one army to conquer scours of settlements. But... some people don't mind that. Whatever is your guys' preference.

The other thing is, you can take a whole army to a battle and just leave them all sitting at the back while you carve up the enemy with your general - which gives you an advantage over someone who can't do that and needs to raise more troops to replenish losses.

Again, I'm fine with it but we shouldn't pretend there isn't an advantage to be had by those who are experts at exploiting the battle AI.

I concede that auto-resolve has its own quirks - there's no perfectly fair way to play this game, after all we start with different levels of settlements and armies anyway.

[Quirl]

The other thing is, you can take a whole army to a battle and just leave them all sitting at the back while you carve up the enemy with your general - which gives you an advantage over someone who can't do that and needs to raise more troops to replenish losses.

Again, I'm fine with it but we shouldn't pretend there isn't an advantage to be had by those who are experts at exploiting the battle AI.

I concede that auto-resolve has its own quirks - there's no perfectly fair way to play this game, after all we start with different levels of settlements and armies anyway.

Yep, so pretty much pick your poison! At the very least, if we decide all autoresolve, one can always challenge another player to a duel and bet denarii on it or something.

Ok, so my plan is to start the game by Friday if that is ok with everyone? That will give Ramses the weekend to do his turn. Nonetheless, if you guys know anyone who might want to join us, please try to invite them! In my opinion, we especially need a Turk player, along with either a Georgian or Seljuk player. If we had those, this game would be a lot more evenly spread out.