Nusantara : Total War

[plutoboyz]

sorry for the pic. here.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Cute Wolf]

Did you sure they not wearing some kind of armour? Even Javanese militia cavalry wear a simple metal breastplate and armguards...... Nice concept BTW

[plutoboyz]

Did you sure they not wearing some kind of armour? Even Javanese militia cavalry wear a simple metal breastplate and armguards...... Nice concept BTW

I'm not sure too. many literature said Pajajaran army very relying on martial art. so I think they doesn't need armor and shield. their speed is their armor.

I draw it based on these

[Cute Wolf]

Hmm.... so in game terms of RTW-BI... they will be high skill, high damage, 2 hp units...

Wait for a moment... are you sure they didn't use any amour? (Tommorow, I'll go to Braga and check Kantor Pusat Budaya again....)

EDIT:

And for the Militia (which I'm sure still made the bulk of their army)... Sonic recently told me that their militia units are not armed with spears, but swords.... could you clarify that?

[plutoboyz]

Hmm.... so in game terms of RTW-BI... they will be high skill, high damage, 2 hp units...

Wait for a moment... are you sure they didn't use any amour? (Tommorow, I'll go to Braga and check Kantor Pusat Budaya again....)
..

I'm not sure? Shield and armor might be used for some unit. but since they were noble solider, they must be have very high skill.
btw, we should visit some museum like Geusan Ulun and Bumi Alit.

...
EDIT:

And for the Militia (which I'm sure still made the bulk of their army)... Sonic recently told me that their militia units are not armed with spears, but swords.... could you clarify that?

since militia just a citizen, maybe They use Golok. for sunda culture we can call them Jawara instead of militia.

[Cute Wolf]

since militia just a citizen, maybe They use Golok. for sunda culture we can call them Jawara instead of militia.

They just carrying golok... and not Bow?

*. Javanese militia carry bow and golok... you can look my concept art several pages earlier.. they are mentioned as Jogo Karyo (literally "hansip"-Penjaga keamanan-Security Guards)...
If they also carry bows, we could use shared model for them....

[plutoboyz]

They just carrying golok... and not Bow?

*. Javanese militia carry bow and golok... you can look my concept art several pages earlier.. they are mentioned as Jogo Karyo (literally "hansip"-Penjaga keamanan-Security Guards)...
If they also carry bows, we could use shared model for them....

As far as I know, Pajajaran separate Archer and Sword. I have to do more research on this.

[Cute Wolf]

As far as I know, Pajajaran separate Archer and Sword. I have to do more research on this.

Hmm.... (sending an SMS to sonic)

Tommorow, we'll (hope to) update the unit lists again...

[plutoboyz]

Hmm.... (sending an SMS to sonic)

Tommorow, we'll (hope to) update the unit lists again...

good. any other question?

[plutoboyz]

sorry for the pic. here.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

EDIT: My bad, Their spear was Kujang not Keris. sorry

[plutoboyz]

do you need some description for pajajaran unit?

[Cute Wolf]

Yeah... sonic says he'll give the lists he made tommorow....

[plutoboyz]

Ok, I just found other unit from Sanghyang siksakandang karesian. it written:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

...Dan perihatikanlah mereka yang dapat ditiru: mantri, gusti yang terkemuka, bayangkara yang menghadap, pangalasan. juru lukis, pandai besi. ahli kulit, dalang wayang, pembuat gamelan, pemain sandiwara, pelawak, peladang. penyadap. penyawah, penyapu. bela mati, juru moha, barat katiga, prajurit, pemanah, pemarang, petugas dasa dan penangkap ikan, juru selam dan segala macam pekerjaan. Semua setia kepada tugas untuk raja, itu semua patut ditiru sebab mereka melakukan tapan dalam negara...

...Segala macam hasil tempaan, ada tiga macam yang berbeda. Senjata sang prabu ialah: pedang, abet (pecut), pamuk, golok, peso teundeut, keris. Raksasa yang dijadikan dewanya, karena digunakan untuk membunuh. Senjata orang tani ialah: kujang. baliung. patik, kored, pisau sadap. Detya yang dijadikan dewanya, karena digunakan untuk mengambil apa yang dapat dikecap dan diminum. Senjata sang pendeta ialah: kala katri, peso raut, peso dongdang, pangot, pakisi. Danawa yang dijadikan dewanya, karena digunakan untuk mengerat segala sesuatu, Itulah ketiga jenis senjata yang berbeda pada sang prebu, pada petani, pada pendeta. Demikianlah bila kita ingin tahu semuanya, tanyalah pandai besi...

so, total unit I got:

Puragabaya: Elite royal Guard. most powerful unit I think.
weapon: tumbak and pedang
defensive: cloth, Kanuragan, martial art.

Pamanah: archer
weapon: Bow and arrow.
defensive: still unknown

Prajurit: standard soldier
weapon: Tumbak or Pedang.
defensive: Shield

Militia: citizen
weapon: bedog, baliung, Kujang bangkong.
defensive: none

(Mercenary)Jawara: mercenary champion
Weapon: golok
defensive: Martial art

Hulu Jurit: General
weapon: pedang, abet (pecut), pamuk, golok, peso teundeut, keris
defensive: unknown

Kuda windu: Cavalry unit
weapon: unsure, But looks like they use Tumbak and Sword.
defensive: unknown

Pasukan Gajah Siliwangi: Elephant cavalry
weapon: arrow, elephant's ivory.
defensive: unknown

Balamati Pajajaran: elite guard
Weapon: Pedang and Tumbak
defensive: (unsure) shield

but if able, could you add these?

(Mercenary) Baladia Onom Galuh: Mystical Betrayer army
weapon: various
defensive: since they were spirit, so...

Pasukan Angklung: morale support troops
weapon: Angklung music
defensive: none

[Rahwana]

Hmm... but CW said you named Pajajaran militia "Jawara"..... and with the info that they are sword armed... I think about made a "Supperior militia"... how about it?

[plutoboyz]

Hmm... but CW said you named Pajajaran militia "Jawara"..... and with the info that they are sword armed... I think about made a "Supperior militia"... how about it?

Ok, Thats better. Separate Jawara and Militia. I named Militia "Jawara". because Jawara is citizen, but have fighting skill.

[Cute Wolf]

So, what is their "militia" name? I'm sure we can't just place Indonesian - "Milisi Sunda" as a name, because Javanese militia got proper Javanese name (kalo melayu kita masih bisa ngeles dikit, tapi sunda dan Jawa itu sangat beda tata bahasanya)

[plutoboyz]

So, what is their "militia" name? I'm sure we can't just place Indonesian - "Milisi Sunda" as a name, because Javanese militia got proper Javanese name (kalo melayu kita masih bisa ngeles dikit, tapi sunda dan Jawa itu sangat beda tata bahasanya)

What is their Javanese name? Sunda dan Jawa yang sekarang memang sangat beda. tapi Sunda Kuna banyak memiliki kemiripan dengan Kawi. karena keduanya berakar pada sanskerta.

but seriously, I don't found any literature that said citizen recruited, armed and send to war. all of their soldier seems well trained.

[Cute Wolf]

Masalahnya adalah "Jogo Karyo" - Milisi Jawa.... bawaanya golok + panah.... gt... kata lu cuman bawa golok doang....



- Lagi ngaskus

[plutoboyz]

Masalahnya adalah "Jogo Karyo" - Milisi Jawa.... bawaanya golok + panah.... gt... kata lu cuman bawa golok doang....



- Lagi ngaskus

kalau yang dinamakan "militia" itu warga biasa yang dikirim ke medan tempur. sampai sekarang saya belum nemu itu catetannya warga sipil dikirim untuk bertempur. paling deket itu catetan tentang para jawara. mereka sih cuman petarung biasa yang kebetulan ikut perang kalau menyangkut kepentingan mereka atau dibayar. mangkanya saya tulis "mercenary".

soal "militia" alias relawan belum nemu bukti hisorisnya (untuk pajajaran) jadi kalau pun ada mereka bawanya Golok. karena setiap senjata itu ada aturan pemakainya tidak sembarang orang boleh pakai kujang atau lainnya (baca sanghyang siksakandang karesian). untuk warga sipil itu golok. paling jauh juga kujang, itu pun hanya kujang bangkong. jarang orang sipil yang punya kemampuan memanah yang masuk standar berperang. paling kemampuan memanah mereka rata-rata cuma cukup untuk berburu.

pedang, panah dan tumbak itu hanya digunakan orang militer.

[plutoboyz]

PAJAJARAN UNIT UPDATE:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Light Infantry:

-(existence doubted)Militia: citizen
weapon: bedog, baliung, Kujang bangkong.
defensive: none

-(Mercenary)Jawara: mercenary champion
Weapon: golok
defensive: Martial art
description: They are skilled fighter of their village. learning various deadly martial art make them an useful mercenary. their weapon, Golok is a short broad sword useful for cutting off enemy.

Heavy Infantry:

-Ka Satrya Puragabaya: Elite Feudal Army.
weapon: tumbak and pedang
defensive: cloth, Kanuragan, martial art.
description:Being a Puragabaya is a great honor. Puragabaya have a noble position among the communities. A Puragabaya combine nobleness, strength and eloquence of religion in him. Puragabaya a chosen young man who was appointed from among the nobility who have morals and manners of a noble and excellent physical ability. In order to become a Puragabaya must go through very heavy and difficult stages. Puragabaya required a simple life, living in a hermitage in the middle of the jungle, face exercises are the stakes are life. In addition to studying kanuragan art and martial art, Puragabaya also equipped with the religious knowledge. So a Puragabaya besides having very powerful and dangerous kanuragan, also has a high proficiency in religion.

-Pajurit Balamati Pajajaran: Elite Palace Guard
Weapon: Tumbak (standard weapon for guard) and Pedang
defensive: (unsure) shield.
Description: These are backbone of Pajajaran Military. secret recipes of the "Never-Defeated Pajajaran". Balamati is a great army numbered a thousand men. Their job is palace security and safety of the king as well as his officer and his relatives. As a Pajajaran royal bodyguard, Balamati vow to protect the honor of Pajajaran to death. Their oath has been proven in Bubat incident. They have some kind of attack that could break enemy chest, known as Sentak Dulang

-Pajurit: standard soldier
weapon: Pedang.
defensive: Shield

Missile Infantry:

-Pamanah: archer
weapon: Bow and arrow.
defensive: still unknown


Officer:

-Hulu Jurit: General
weapon: pedang, abet (pecut), pamuk, golok, peso teundeut, keris
defensive: unknown

Cavalry:

Kuda windu (removed, because it was Cirebon army)

-Pajurit Gajah Siliwangi: Elephant cavalry
weapon: arrow, elephant's ivory.
defensive: unknown



Suggestion:

-(Mercenary) Baladia Onom Galuh: Mystical Betrayer army
weapon: various
defensive: since they were spirit, so...

-Pajurit Angklung: morale support troops
weapon: Angklung music
defensive: none

That's all for now. this list will be updated as soon as I found more information.

[Skullheadhq]

Also, the dutch translations are at the Portuguese Invasion thread.

[plutoboyz]

PAJAJARAN UNIT UPDATE:
just find another unit

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Light Infantry:

-Pamarang: Soldier
weapon: Pedang
Defensive: unknown

-(existence doubted)Militia: citizen
weapon: bedog, baliung, Kujang bangkong.
defensive: none

-(Mercenary)Jawara: mercenary champion
Weapon: golok
defensive: Martial art
description: They are skilled fighter of their village. learning various deadly martial art make them an useful mercenary. their weapon, Golok is a short broad sword useful for cutting off enemy.

Heavy Infantry:

-Ka Satrya Puragabaya: Elite Feudal Army.
weapon: tumbak and pedang
defensive: cloth, Kanuragan, martial art.
description:Being a Puragabaya is a great honor. Puragabaya have a noble position among the communities. A Puragabaya combine nobleness, strength and eloquence of religion in him. Puragabaya a chosen young man who was appointed from among the nobility who have morals and manners of a noble and excellent physical ability. In order to become a Puragabaya must go through very heavy and difficult stages. Puragabaya required a simple life, living in a hermitage in the middle of the jungle, face exercises are the stakes are life. In addition to studying kanuragan art and martial art, Puragabaya also equipped with the religious knowledge. So a Puragabaya besides having very powerful and dangerous kanuragan, also has a high proficiency in religion.

-Pajurit Balamati Pajajaran: Elite Palace Guard
Weapon: Tumbak (standard weapon for guard) and Pedang
defensive: (unsure) shield.
Description: These are backbone of Pajajaran Military. secret recipes of the "Never-Defeated Pajajaran". Balamati is a great army numbered a thousand men. Their job is palace security and safety of the king as well as his officer and his relatives. As a Pajajaran royal bodyguard, Balamati vow to protect the honor of Pajajaran to death. Their oath has been proven in Bubat incident. They have some kind of attack that could break enemy chest, known as Sentak Dulang

-Pajurit: standard soldier
weapon: Pedang.
defensive: Shield

Missile Infantry:

-Pamanah: archer
weapon: Bow and arrow.
defensive: still unknown


Officer:

-Hulu Jurit: General
weapon: pedang, abet (pecut), pamuk, golok, peso teundeut, keris
defensive: unknown

Cavalry:

Kuda windu (removed, because it was Cirebon army)

-Pajurit Gajah Siliwangi: Elephant cavalry
weapon: arrow, elephant's ivory.
defensive: unknown



Suggestion:

-(Mercenary) Baladia Onom Galuh: Mystical Betrayer army
weapon: various
defensive: since they were spirit, so...

-Pajurit Angklung: morale support troops
weapon: Angklung music
defensive: none

That's all for now. this list will be updated as soon as I found more information.

[Cute Wolf]

Hmm... you better check at the forge, Portugese invasion thread... I've uploaded final faction symbols...

[Rahwana]

And now... I want you all to help with Elephant prices... hmm... how much is elephant price now? anyone knows?

[plutoboyz]

again, UNIT UPDATE
I bold new update. so you could easily notice it.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Light Infantry:

-Pajurit: standard soldier
weapon: Pedang.
defensive: Shield

Bayangkara: standard Guards
weapon: standard Tumbak
defensive: shield
They are Pajajaran law enforcer. trained to face criminal. they are also a palace guard. altough their name was similar to Majapahit's Bhayangkara, they are very different. They are more Police than Soldier.

-(existence doubted)Militia: citizen
weapon: bedog, baliung, Kujang bangkong.
defensive: none

-(Mercenary)Jawara: mercenary champion
Weapon: golok
defensive: Martial art
They are skilled fighter of their village. learning various deadly martial art make them an useful mercenary. their weapon, Golok is a short broad sword useful for cutting off enemy.

Heavy Infantry:

-Ka Satrya Puragabaya: Elite Feudal Army.
weapon: tumbak and pedang
defensive: cloth, Kanuragan, martial art.
Being a Puragabaya is a great honor. Puragabaya have a noble position among the communities. A Puragabaya combine nobleness, strength and eloquence of religion in him. Puragabaya a chosen young man who was appointed from among the nobility who have morals and manners of a noble and excellent physical ability. In order to become a Puragabaya must go through very heavy and difficult stages. Puragabaya required a simple life, living in a hermitage in the middle of the jungle, face exercises are the stakes are life. In addition to studying kanuragan art and martial art, Puragabaya also equipped with the religious knowledge. So a Puragabaya besides having very powerful and dangerous kanuragan, also has a high proficiency in religion.

-Pajurit Balamati Pajajaran: Elite Palace Guard
Weapon: Tumbak (standard weapon for guard) and Pedang
defensive: shield.
Description: These are backbone of Pajajaran Military. secret recipes of the "Never-Defeated Pajajaran". Balamati is a great army numbered a thousand men. Their job is palace security and safety of the king as well as his officer and his relatives. As a Pajajaran royal bodyguard, Balamati vow to protect the honor of Pajajaran to death. Their oath has been proven in Bubat incident. They have some kind of attack that could break enemy chest, known as Sentak Dulang

-Pamarang: Soldier
weapon: Pedang
Defensive: Shield


Missile Infantry:

-Pamanah: archer
weapon: Bow and arrow. also golok
defensive: still unknown. probably, none


Officer:

-Hulu Jurit: General
weapon: pedang, abet (pecut), pamuk, golok, peso teundeut, keris
defensive: His Balamati

Cavalry:

Kuda windu (removed, because it was Cirebon army)

-Pajurit Gajah Siliwangi: Elephant cavalry
weapon: arrow, elephant's ivory.
defensive: unknown

===========================================================================

Suggestion:

-(Mercenary) Baladia Onom Galuh: Mystical Betrayer army
weapon: various
defensive: since they were spirit, so...

-Pajurit Angklung: morale support troops
weapon: Angklung music
defensive: none

note:-please don't get confused between Pedang(Sword), Bedog(cutting tool) and Golok(short sword).
-Pajurit is Sunda Kuna for Army.

[plutoboyz]

And now... I want you all to help with Elephant prices... hmm... how much is elephant price now? anyone knows?

I've no Idea about that.. I think it should be most expensive cavalry in faction.

[Rahwana]

Plutoboyz.... Bhayangkara is Majapahit Elite guards... Pajajaran didn't have them I think.... EDIT : Could you give more explaination to us?

Majapahit Bhayangkara is named from Bhayang (Shadow - bayangan), Kara (Core - pusat).... and was made into active militar unit, s well as secret police, by Gajahmada

I've no Idea about that.. I think it should be most expensive cavalry in faction.

Yeah... but how expensive? Did you think 10 horse is worth 1 Elephants?

[plutoboyz]

Plutoboyz.... Bhayangkara is Majapahit Elite guards... Pajajaran didn't have them I think.... EDIT : Could you give more explaination to us?

Majapahit Bhayangkara is named from Bhayang (Shadow - bayangan), Kara (Core - pusat).... and was made into active militar unit, s well as secret police, by Gajahmada...

they have, but different with Majapahit's Bhayangkara.
Source: Naskah Sanghyang Siksakandang Karesian
original:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Deung maka ilik-ilik dina turutaneun: mantri gusti kaasa-asa, bayangkara nu marek, pangalasan, juru lukis, pande dang, pande mas, pande gelang, pande wesi, guru wida(ng). medu, wayang, kumbang gending, tapukan, banyolan, pahuma, panyadap, panyawah, panyapu, bela mati, juru moha, barat katiga, pajurit, pamanah, pam(a)rang, pangurang dasa calagara, rare angon, pacelengan, pakotokan, palika, preteuleum, sing sawatek guna, Aya ma satya di guna di kahulunan. Eta kehna turutaneun kena eta ngawakan tapa di nagara.

Translated(Indonesia)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Dan perihatikanlah mereka yang dapat ditiru: mantri, gusti yang terkemuka, bayangkara yang menghadap, pangalasan. juru lukis, pandai besi. ahli kulit, dalang wayang, pembuat gamelan, pemain sandiwara, pelawak, peladang. penyadap. penyawah, penyapu. bela mati, juru moha, barat katiga, prajurit, pemanah, pemarang, petugas dasa dan penangkap ikan, juru selam dan segala macam pekerjaan. Semua setia kepada tugas untuk raja, itu semua patut ditiru sebab mereka melakukan tapan dalam negara,

I bold military unit

...
Yeah... but how expensive? Did you think 10 horse is worth 1 Elephants?

hmm... too much I think. 5 horse for 1 elephant is good.

...
Majapahit Bhayangkara is named from Bhayang (Shadow - bayangan), Kara (Core - pusat).... and was made into active militar unit, s well as secret police, by Gajahmada...

wow, GESTAPO

[Cute Wolf]

Good... so we have 2 unit with similar name.... maybe I suggest naming Majapahit Elite Guards :Bhayangkarapraja instead... because praja suffix means military cadet

[Rahwana]

wow, GESTAPO

No, they are a standing military unit with authority after several counter intelligence issues, much like kopassus

Good... so we have 2 unit with similar name.... maybe I suggest naming Majapahit Elite Guards :Bhayangkarapraja instead... because praja suffix means military cadet

Hmm... maybe -praja suffix is somewhat misleading with STPDN the sundanese Bhayangkara more deserve -praja suffix..... just kidding

Well, now seriously... adding -praja suffix for differentiating units is somewhat... made ahistorical additions... but in the sake of not confusing non-indonesian players, maybe we can add that... this is the first alternative...

But I have a second alternative, maybe we could search for "Bhayangkara" synonims in sundanese... it was way bit better...

Or Third Alternative... made the Majapahit Bhayangkara bodyguard unit (instead of Kraton Guards aka // Panjagan Njeron), so they could legally named "Punggawa Bhayangkara"