dismounting cavalry

[tarem]

i have a question about the cavalry options in MTW2 and therefore EB2. in MTW1 some cavalry units like knights could be dismounted before combat, thus giving you the option to make your army more sutable for fighing in the rough terrain. is that possible in MTW2? and if so will it be available in EB2? and if available, can it be moded to actually dismount after deployment?

sorry for asking so many questions at once, but i was reading about some battles in the ancients few hours ago and it sort of sticked in my mind

[A Very Super Market]

Mounted and dismounted units are separate units in M2. You cannot turn one into the other.

[tarem]

thanx for the prompt reply

[stratigos vasilios]

Hi Tarem,

I believe the question you asked has been answered before in these two threads:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=121516&

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=109872&

My apologies, I am not computer savvy enough to pull some quotes out of them but I believe the question has been answered here.

Hopefully this has helped.

[tarem]

thank you for those links, i did not really play that much of MTW2 or ETW although i do have them installed on my pc at all times. i just can't get back to vanila TW games after playing EB. so i never knew they kicked out the dismount option. i often wonder how or why do sequels turn out to have less complexity then the oriinals ?

[-42-]

i often wonder how or why do sequels turn out to have less complexity then the oriinals ?

CA wants to appeal to a broader audience, I don't really have a problem with it, but a little more attention for us historical geeky types would be great. EB pretty much fills that demand (and then some).

[Smeel]

I didn't enjoy Empire very much at all, but I really don't think the core mechanics of the game where that less complex than other tw games.
The only "trying to appeal the broader audience" I've felt is the marketing is more pointed to the american audience rather than the european.

The only things tha comes to mind is the family tree and sieges that got the big axe, but neither of them where that essential in the 18th century, though I would have enjoyed cultivating different noble families waying for control of the empire. *sigh*

I mean, trading and resources are more complex and have some meaning now, which it didn't have in earlier games.

The building mechanics where streamlined, and at least I thought they did a better job this time.

The same with diplomacy, it was just annyoing that you needed to send diplomats through the whole map to ask for something, a big improvement. Of course, one of the reasons I don't enjoy empire, is the incredibly broken AI diplomacy.

[tarem]

the only thing i really like in Empire is tactical naval battle. out of maybe 20-30 game hours spent on ETW, i probably used more then 2/3 on playing naval battles through the custom battle creator. just think of the possibilites this openes. yes, the AI is not really creative, but then again it never is. the best we can expect from a commercial game is to prevent the AI from doing extreamly silly stuff. in that point, the naval AI is not that bad. as for EB1, i've played it on rtw, bi and alex exe-s and i think the AI is slightly better (in tactical battle) in bi and alex, with alex maybe being a bit less silly, but lacking night battles and stuff.

anyways, when i thought of the sequels being "dumbed down" i mostly ment MTW VS MTW2 and RTW. vanilla RTW was really really bad. i ever play it anymore. BI and Alex are menageble. MT2 is ok-ish too. as i said i don't have enogh exereince with it, or with ETW.

[Smeel]

Ah, I hardly remember playing Mtw, I was like 13-14 or something, and I probably didn't understand half of the english I had to read. Good times though, I remeber having a great time playing it!

If CA ever release tools for E:tw, that game might have a really bright future, but that is of course, if they don't figure it's easier to have the game unmodable with DLC content

[tarem]

there are 2 things i really like about MTW that i can remember and that do not apear in later TW games. one was the dismount ability, that came in handy when you thought that you knights (who might charge without orders anyway) would not be of much use on their horses for whatever reason (terrain or enemy army composition). the other was the very aproach of defending a province and the local settlement. there was just no way you could cramp a full stack army inside a fortification, thus sieges were really acts of desperation on the defender's part. namely the fort could only support a limited number of soldiers (depending on the fort's level) and if the enemy decided to retreat inside the said fort, they would have to relly only on a limited garrison. this lead to a field battle before almost every siege or a total evacuation of the army, which i consider much more realistic and initiative demanding than the current aproach which actually incourages full stacks camping inside fortified cities. i wonder of something like this coul be moded, to only allow fo a limited size garison to defend a settlement...

[A Very Super Market]

Probably, but it would be more trouble than it's worth. The AI won't care about that, for one.

[tarem]

you mean th AI would still opt to fortify inside with a limited stack even if it has say 12 more units outside the city?

[mountaingoat]

RTW(EB) and MTW2(EB) would be x9000!!! if some of these features were kept in the game ... i like the older style of map too.

[B-Wing]

I believe I share tarem's sentiments. My memory of MTW isn't perfect, but it does seem like taking a province usually involved two battles: one on open terrain, and an assault on the settlement itself. Actually, I think the settlement may have been separate from the fortification you were assaulting. If I remember right, you attacked a castle or fort rather than an actual city or town.

Anyway, I do much prefer field battles to sieges and siege assaults. Not so much because sieges are harder (indeed, with the way the AI handles them, often times they are easier), but because they are less exciting and, more significantly, they display the limitations of the Total War engine. The way units handle walls is particularly disappointing to me, and town squares (where the final showdown typically takes place) have some strange pathing properties, more so in RTW than M2TW. I'm not sure I've ever really suspended belief whilst playing a Total War game, but I'm rarely more aware of the fact that it's just a game than whilst trying to effectively maneuver troops through cities.

That was a bit of a rant. As far as the original topic goes, you cannot dismount units during or prior to battle in M2TW, so really the only question is whether or not there should be dismounted versions of units to recruit. I don't personally see any point in it, but does anyone else?

[tarem]

me neigther, i don't see a reason for them being in MTW2 too. why are there recruitable dismounted lancers anyway?

[Owen Glyndwr]

The only things tha comes to mind is the family tree and sieges that got the big axe, but neither of them where that essential in the 18th century, though I would have enjoyed cultivating different noble families waying for control of the empire. *sigh*

That bit about family trees is hardly true, especially when you consider that in this time period most all of Europe was dominated by 5 major families: Bourbons, Habsburgs, Hannoverians (a little after the game starts), Hohenzollerns (come to prominence at the tail end of the game?) and the Romanovs.

If anything, I think family trees should be even more important in that game.

Sorry for the off-topic response, just had to say it.

[Watchman]

Excuse me but since when weren't sieges rather very important in 18th-century warfare...? States didn't dump small fortunes into building and maintaining those "Vauban" fortress systems because they were irrelevant you know.

[A Very Super Market]

you mean th AI would still opt to fortify inside with a limited stack even if it has say 12 more units outside the city?

No, that there is no way to actually force a unit different unit cap for garrisons, only encourage it through general traits.

[tarem]

oh, figures...
thanx for the info

[Olaf The Great]

It's a feature I miss from MTW.

Though to be fair I never figured out to work it.

[mountaingoat]

in deployment phase , i think it was "right clicking" the cav , gave the option to dismount.