Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

[Cute Wolf]

they are pretty much foreign soldiers hired to fight for.... maybe under kartogulu ... (hmm must wait for a week for sonic to shown up again)

[plutoboyz]

Kurtoğlu shown up in 1564, mainly consist of mariner.

[Cute Wolf]

if he carry a lot of gunmen, that's him

[plutoboyz]

Gunmen? Not many Gunmen, but countless Big baddass Turkish Bombard.

[Cute Wolf]

Gunmen? Not many Gunmen, but countless Big baddass Turkish Bombard.

yeah, that's right.... including the big monster bombard of M2TW?

[plutoboyz]

yeah, that's right.... including the big monster bombard of M2TW?

umm.... nope. their ship can't hold such thing. basically, it was Mariner, and some Auxilary troops.

[Nyz]

Melayu (aceh-melaka)
factional cavalry:
Melayu-Sriwj Militia Cav (cavjav-lancers) = Penunggang Kuda

Well, I suggest the phrase "Gembala Kuda" (Horse Herdsman), because:

a) The term Gembala Kuda and Gembala Gajah appear in Hikayat Hang Tuah as the trainer of war horses and war elephants.

b) Although herdsman associated with civilian, horse herdsman and elephant herdsman / mahout were special in Malay society because they were not like cow herdsman, goat herdsman and shepherd (they trained horse and elephant for war and vehicle, while cow herdsman, goat herdsman and shepherd rear cow and goat for livestock, and buffaloes to plough the paddy-field. Horses are too expensive to become livestock.)

c) Well, they are militia cavalry, originally as civilian, then become soldier at time of emergency.

Native Forest Worker Elephants (elephant-javelin) = Prajurit Gajah

I suggest the phrase "Gembala Gajah" (mahout) because of above reasons.

A part of Gembala Kuda and Gembala Gajah, the term Penghulu Kuda and Penghulu Gajah also appeared in Hikayat Acheh, they were royal trainer of war horses and elephants in Acheh court.

Melayu Turkish Cav (cavarchers-cavscimitars)

Well, I only found the term Kuda Tizi Peperangan (swift horse of war) from the letter of Acheh's Sultan and Sultanah, it said that the horse breed was imported from various places, especially middle-east:

...ialah raja yang karunia Allah Ta‘ala mengempukan kuda berpakaian mas bepermata belazuardi dan beratus2 kuda tizi peperangan yang seru jenis daripada jenis Arabi dan Rumi dan Turki dan Kuci dan Lahur dan Abaya dan Tongkin dan Gudh

(he is the king granted by God the possession of horses caparisoned in gold studded with jewels and lapis-lazuli and hundreds of swift horses for use in war, of all kinds of stock, Arab and Rumi (Byzantine) and Turkish and Cochin and Lahore and Abaya and Tongkin and Gudh)

[Cute Wolf]

I think the word "gembala" are rather melayu only words... because the Javanese also share that kind of unit (who'll not using elephants in war when available, even when barely trained for war?)

[G. Septimus]

hey,
after watching a NatGeo Doc.
Malaysians use Special Warriors: Silat Men to Resist Enemy Invasions
maybe it will help as one Special Unit in this mod?

Well, I suggest the phrase "Gembala Kuda" (Horse Herdsman), because:

a) The term Gembala Kuda and Gembala Gajah appear in Hikayat Hang Tuah as the trainer of war horses and war elephants.

b) Although herdsman associated with civilian, horse herdsman and elephant herdsman / mahout were special in Malay society because they were not like cow herdsman, goat herdsman and shepherd (they trained horse and elephant for war and vehicle, while cow herdsman, goat herdsman and shepherd rear cow and goat for livestock, and buffaloes to plough the paddy-field. Horses are too expensive to become livestock.)

c) Well, they are militia cavalry, originally as civilian, then become soldier at time of emergency.




I suggest the phrase "Gembala Gajah" (mahout) because of above reasons.

A part of Gembala Kuda and Gembala Gajah, the term Penghulu Kuda and Penghulu Gajah also appeared in Hikayat Acheh, they were royal trainer of war horses and elephants in Acheh court.




Well, I only found the term Kuda Tizi Peperangan (swift horse of war) from the letter of Acheh's Sultan and Sultanah, it said that the horse breed was imported from various places, especially middle-east:

...ialah raja yang karunia Allah Ta‘ala mengempukan kuda berpakaian mas bepermata belazuardi dan beratus2 kuda tizi peperangan yang seru jenis daripada jenis Arabi dan Rumi dan Turki dan Kuci dan Lahur dan Abaya dan Tongkin dan Gudh

(he is the king granted by God the possession of horses caparisoned in gold studded with jewels and lapis-lazuli and hundreds of swift horses for use in war, of all kinds of stock, Arab and Rumi (Byzantine) and Turkish and Cochin and Lahore and Abaya and Tongkin and Gudh)

Kuda Tizi are maybe Malay Cataphracts, so, keeping Cataphracts will maybe, Easen the work

[Cute Wolf]

I never seen such like Melayu Horse Armour in the museum... perhaps you allready see about them?... hmm....

well, Melayu and Javanese nobility are descendants of (ancient Sriwijayan) Saka Rulers afterall...

[G. Septimus]

I never seen such like Melayu Horse Armour in the museum... perhaps you allready see about them?... hmm....

well, Melayu and Javanese nobility are descendants of (ancient Sriwijayan) Saka Rulers afterall...

Not rlly....
But, I think not. Javanese and Malay are too lowly to have heavy armor. And the large Euro Horses, they don't fit in
But about the Silatmen, they do exist.
Back to the cataphracts:
It's a Chronicle, and
"Di lebay-lebayin" namanya juga kisah, fiktif belaka. Masa armor emas, gila aja kalee

[Cute Wolf]

Not rlly....
But, I think not. Javanese and Malay are too lowly to have heavy armor. And the large Euro Horses, they don't fit in
But about the Silatmen, they do exist.
Back to the cataphracts:
It's a Chronicle, and
"Di lebay-lebayin" namanya juga kisah, fiktif belaka. Masa armor emas, gila aja kalee

please speak english in the forge.... because Jiri, Finn, and Skull won't understood Indo-Malayan

well, it was not a gold armour, it was actually gold-like steel armour coated with brass... but the King's horse in majapahit times DID have the golden Cataphract armour (look about Jayanegara), it wan't a fiction because the Trowulan museum indeed have the golden Cataphract armour....

of course, they are usually steel coated with brass, with some flexible area made of lacquered wood...

[Nyz]

well, it was not a gold armour, it was actually gold-like steel armour coated with brass... but the King's horse in majapahit times DID have the golden Cataphract armour (look about Jayanegara), it wan't a fiction because the Trowulan museum indeed have the golden Cataphract armour....

of course, they are usually steel coated with brass, with some flexible area made of lacquered wood...

Letters of Acheh's Sultan and Sultanah:

raja yang berzirah suasa, dan berketopong suasa, dan yang bergajah bergading mas, berkumban perak, bergenta suasa, yang berantai suasa;

The king whose coat of mail is of gold alloy, and whose helmet is of gold alloy, and whose elephant has golden tusks, a frontlet of silver, bells of gold alloy, with a chain of gold alloy.

Kuda Tizi are maybe Malay Cataphracts, so, keeping Cataphracts will maybe, Easen the work

I am not sure about Malay Cataphracts, but I never see a Malay Cataphracts, even horse archer was rare.

hey, after watching a NatGeo Doc. Malaysians use Special Warriors: Silat Men to Resist Enemy Invasions maybe it will help as one Special Unit in this mod?

Silat Men were exist in Hikayat, but it rather than a military unit, it mentioned Silat Men as master of martial art that educated and trained soldier.

Mahaguru is the word for Silat Master, while the other word for Silat users are Pendekar, Perwira, Kesatria, Pahlawan etc.

[Cute Wolf]

yeah, I mention that royalty have golden equipments, but as far as evidence can be prooved on more common noble soldiers, they only wears steel plate coated with brass. (seperti contoh armor jawa yang ada di museum geologi)

[Nyz]

Well, golds, elephants and horses were the symbols of wealth for the royals and nobles. BTW, if the translation process for unit is finished, can I move on to translate Military Industrial Complex and civilian buildings?

[Cute Wolf]

proceed,

we'll have:

5 level of city, while the biggest will be named to just "important city" because of the population problem (24000 men is just a city's size in this era, maybe even it will means only "trained men" to act as sources of military units)
a) perkampungan ( vanilla village level)
b) desa kecil (vanilla town)
c) desa (vanilla large town)
d) kecamatan / equivalent (vanilla minor city)
e) kota (vanilla large city)
f) kota penting (vanilla huge city)

walls will be exspensive, and that will be only 3 level of them
a) wooden palisades
b) wooden wall
c) masonry wall

4 level of factional barracks
5 level of regional barracks
4 level of gunpowder and artillery (double as european's factional) barracks
5 level of Masjid or Church
5 level of temples, for some gods... (planned : Siwa, Wisnu, Brahma, Buddha, Kali/Nyi Roro Kidul (javanese only), Sunda Wiwitan (pajajaran only), Manjushri (south sumateran only), and perhaps nothing extra for the aceh and melaka...
3 level of european styled military academy
3 level of Turkish styled military academy
and perhaps more on the unused buildings slots (maybe we'll think about this later)

[Nyz]

5 level of city, while the biggest will be named to just "important city" because of the population problem (24000 men is just a city's size in this era, maybe even it will means only "trained men" to act as sources of military units)

Well, RTW engine just defined huge city like that.

a) perkampungan ( vanilla village level) : Dusun
b) desa kecil (vanilla town) : Kampung
c) desa (vanilla large town) : Desa
d) kecamatan / equivalent (vanilla minor city) : Pekan
e) kota (vanilla large city) : Kota
f) kota penting (vanilla huge city) : Bandar - the word Bandar had appeared in Hikayat Hang Tuah and Bustanul Salatin, (Acheh was called Bandar Acheh Darussalam, and Dar es-Salam {Zanzibar, Tanzania} also called Bandar)

In Hikayat, very huge city like Mecca and Istanbul was called Negeri Mekah dan Negeri Istanbul.

hmmm, agree?


a) wooden palisades : Pagar
b) wooden wall : Dinding / Dinding Kayu
c) masonry wall : Tembok / Tembok Batu

Can add 1 more?: Kota Parit (moat)


5 level of Masjid (hmmm, are they really 5 level?)
Wakaf<Musolla<Surau<Masjid<Masjid Raya / Masjid Agung

3 level of Turkish styled military academy
Pondok / Pesantren / Markaz < Madrasah < Maahad (like Maahad Baitul Makdis in Acheh)


Other buildings like law building / policy (Pondok Kawalan, Menara Tinjau, Qanun), Happiness (Sepak raga, Sabung Ayam, Pulau Perburuan [game island], Balai Gendang [music hall], Taman Penglipurlara [royal garden]), public health (Pawang [healer], Panca Persada [royal bath house]), market (gerai [trader], pasar [market], gedung [supermarket], kampung saudagar [merchant quater]), agriculture (kebun, sawah ladang, terusan), port (pengkalan, pelabuhan) etc.

[Cute Wolf]

maybe I should start sketching the units lists again...

[Nyz]

factional barracks:

Balai Tetangga (Station of the neighborhood) < Balai Penghulu (Station of the magistrate) < Balai Temenggung (Station of the Inspector-General of Police) < Balai Pedang Laksamana (Armory of the Admiral) < Balai Pedang Istana (Armory of the Palace)

Regional barracks:

Gelanggang Silat Kampung (Muster-field of the village) < Gelanggang Prajurit (Muster-field of the soldiers) < Gelanggang Pendekar (Musterfield of the warriors) < Gelanggang Perwira (Muster-field of the heroes) < Gelanggang Istana (Muster-field of the palace)

gunpowder and artillery barracks:

Tukang Penuang Bedil (Gunsmith) < Padang Tembak (Shooting Range) < Balai Istinggar (Armory of the gun) < Pembuat Meriam (Cannon maker)

[plutoboyz]

I never seen such like Melayu Horse Armour in the museum... perhaps you allready see about them?... hmm....

well, Melayu and Javanese nobility are descendants of (ancient Sriwijayan) Saka Rulers afterall...

actually not all Javanese Royal families are descendant of Indo-Saka. Majapahit Family are descendant of Sunda Family. Sunda from Tarumanagara,Tarumanagara from Salakanagara and Salakanagara from Salankayana

[Nyz]

Well, some historian said Kerajaan Kedah Tua and Gangga Negara founded by Kambuja Mahajanapada royal families.

[Cute Wolf]

actually not all Javanese Royal families are descendant of Indo-Saka. Majapahit Family are descendant of Sunda Family. Sunda from Tarumanagara,Tarumanagara from Salakanagara and Salakanagara from Salankayana

but Majapahit sources claim they are direct descendants of Singosari, which in turns out paternally, Ken Arok was actually grandchild of former Raja Jenggala, which in turns -> Airlangga -> Mataram Hindu -> Dinasti Samaratungga -> Sriwijaya -> Penyerbuan Ajisaka ke Jawadwipa / Medang Kamulan (sumatera dan Jawa)....

if we look further, Aji Saka's father was named Rudrosena.... which very2 coincidental with Rudhrasena line of the Saka kingdoms in India... and Never forget that the story of ancient "javanese kingdoms long time ago" taken on place of Nagara Saka, Nagara Daha, Nagara Yina, and Nagara Sabrang (could be translated into Saka, Daha, Yuezhi?, and Sauromatae)

[plutoboyz]

but Majapahit sources claim they are direct descendants of Singosari, which in turns out paternally, Ken Arok was actually grandchild of former Raja Jenggala, which in turns -> Airlangga -> Mataram Hindu -> Dinasti Samaratungga -> Sriwijaya -> Penyerbuan Ajisaka ke Jawadwipa / Medang Kamulan (sumatera dan Jawa)....

if we look further, Aji Saka's father was named Rudrosena.... which very2 coincidental with Rudhrasena line of the Saka kingdoms in India... and Never forget that the story of ancient "javanese kingdoms long time ago" taken on place of Nagara Saka, Nagara Daha, Nagara Yina, and Nagara Sabrang (could be translated into Saka, Daha, Yuezhi?, and Sauromatae)

from the most authentic manuscript in Indonesia, Naskah Wangsakerta:

...Menurut Pustaka Rajyarajya i Bhumi Nusantara, Raden Wijaya adalah putra pasangan Rakeyan Jayadarma dan Dyah Lembu Tal. Ayahnya adalah putra Prabu Guru Darmasiksa, raja Kerajaan Sunda Galuh, sedangkan ibunya adalah putri Mahisa Campaka dari Kerajaan Singhasari. Setelah Rakeyan Jayadarma tewas diracun musuhnya, Lembu Tal pulang ke Singhasari membawa serta Wijaya. Dengan demikian, Raden Wijaya merupakan perpaduan darah Sunda dan Jawa....

[Cute Wolf]

from the most authentic manuscript in Indonesia, Naskah Wangsakerta:

...Menurut Pustaka Rajyarajya i Bhumi Nusantara, Raden Wijaya adalah putra pasangan Rakeyan Jayadarma dan Dyah Lembu Tal. Ayahnya adalah putra Prabu Guru Darmasiksa, raja Kerajaan Sunda Galuh, sedangkan ibunya adalah putri Mahisa Campaka dari Kerajaan Singhasari. Setelah Rakeyan Jayadarma tewas diracun musuhnya, Lembu Tal pulang ke Singhasari membawa serta Wijaya. Dengan demikian, Raden Wijaya merupakan perpaduan darah Sunda dan Jawa....

wait... it was bit contrary then... I post some excerpts from Babad tanah jawi

05 Pérangan Kang Kapisan
Bab 5
Jumenengé Kartanagara ing Tumapel
(1268 - 1292)


Ratu Singasari kang Kaping V, jumeneng mekasi. Sasédané Syri Wisynuwardhana pangéran pati jumeneng Nata, ajejuluk Prabu Kartanagara.
Sang Prabu manggalih marang kawruh kagunan, lan kasusastran, lan iya manggalih marang undhaking jajahan, nanging kurang ngatos atos, lan kersa ngunjuk nganti dadi wuru.
Ana nayakaning praja aran Banyak Widhe utama Arya Wiraraja, tepung becik lan Jayakatwang, adipati ing Daha.
Satriya iku ora sungkem marang ratuné, malah wis sekuthon karo Jayakatwang, arep mbaléla.
Dumadakan ana punggawa kang matur prakara iku, nanging Sang Prabu ora menggalih, Wiraraja malah diangkat dadi adipati ana ing Madura.

Pepatihe Sang Nata aran Raganatha rumeksa banget marang ratuné, nganti sok wani ngaturi pènget marang Sang Prabu ing bab kang ora bener, nanging Sang Prabu ora rena ing galih, ora nimbangi rumeksaning patih setya iku, malah banjur milih patih liya kang bisa ngladèni karsané.
Patih wredha diundur, winisuda dadi: nayaka pradata, dadi wis ora campur karo prakara pangrèh praja.
Patih anyar senengé mung ngalem marang ratuné lan ngladosi unjuk unjukan.

Ana utusan saka ratu agung ing nagara Cina (Chubilai) dhawuh supaya Prabu Kartanagara nyalirani dhéwé utawa wakilsuwana marang nagara Cina perlu caos bekti (tahun 1289).
Sang Prabu duka banget. Bathuking Cina utusan digambari pasemon kang ora apik, nelakaké dukané Sang Prabu.
Bareng tekan ing nagara Cina patrape ratu Jawa kang mangkono iku mau njalari dukané ratu binathara ing Cina,
Ing tahun1292 ana prajurit gedhé saka ing Cina arep ngukum ing kuwanéné wong Jawa.
Wiraraja sasuwéné ana ing Madura isih ngrungok ngrungokaké apa kang kalakon ana ing Singasari, lan iya weruh uga yèn ing wektu iku prajurit Singasari dilurugaké menyang Sumatra.
Wiraraja ngajani Jayakatwang akon nangguh mbedhah Singasari, mumpung nagara lagi kesisan bala.
Jayakatwang ngleksanani, lan Singasari kelakon bedhah. Ratu lan patihé katungkep ing mungsuh isih terus unjuk unjukan baé (wuru), mulané ora rekasa pinurih sédané.

Radèn Wijaya, wayahè Narasinga, putrané panjenengan makuto Daha, nuli umangsah ngetog kaprawiran mbelani nagara lan ratuné, nanging wis kaslepek karoban wong Daha, mulané banjur kepeksa ngoncati, mung kari nggawa bala 12, genti genti nggéndhong Sang Putri garwané Radèn Wijaya, putrané Prabu Kartanagara.
Lampahè Radèn Wijaya sasentanané nusup angayam alas.
Kalebu wilangan 12 iku ana satriyané loro, putrané Wiraraja, duwè atur marang Gustiné supaya ngungsi menyang Madura.
Sang Pangéran mauné ora karsa, nanging suwé suwé nuruti. Ana ing Madura ditampani kalawan becik.
Rembugé Wiraraja, Radèn Wijaya diaturi suwita menyang Daha. Wiraraja sing arep nglantaraké.
Yèn wis kelakon suwita Radèn Wijaya diaturi nyetitèkaké para punggawa ing Daha, sapa sing kendel utawa jirih, tuhu utawa lamis.
Yèn wis antara suwé diaturi nyuwun tanah tanah Trik, dibabada banjur dienggonana.
Radèn Wijaya nurut ing pitudhuh, lan iya kelakon suwita ing Daha.
Kacarita pasuwitané kanggep banget, amarga saka pinteré nuju karsa, lan saka pinteré olah gegaman; wong sa Daha ora ana sing bisa ngalahaké.
Kabèh piwulangé Wiraraja ditindakaké, dilalah Sang Prabu teka dhangan baé, malah bareng tanah Trik wis dibabad, Radèn Wijaya nyuwun manggon ing kono iya dililani.
Kacarita nalika babade tanah Trik mau, ana wong kang methik woh maja dipangan, nanging rasané pait. Awit saka iku désa ingkono mau banjur dijenengaké Majapait.
Bareng Radèn Wijaya wis manggon ing Majapait, rumangsa wis wayahè tata tata males ukum, ngrusak kraton Daha, ananging Wiraraja akon sabar dhisik, awit isih ngenteni prajurit saka nagara Cina kang arep ngukum wong Singasari.
Karepe Wiraraja arep ngréwangi Cina baé dhisik, besuké arep mbalik mungsuh Cina. Wiraraja banjur boyong sakulawargané lan saprajurite menyang Majapait ngumpul dadi siji karo Radèn Wijaya.

Raden wijaya was the son of Daha (jenggala) line

[plutoboyz]

wait... it was bit contrary then... I post some excerpts from Babad tanah jawi


Raden wijaya was the son of Daha (jenggala) line

I prefer Wangsakerta. its written by several historian from different background. and from almighty Wiki:

...Antara lain ahli sejarah HJ de Graaf. Menurutnya apa yang tertulis di Babad Tanah Jawi dapat dipercaya, khususnya cerita tentang peristiwa tahun 1600 sampai zaman Kartasura di abad 18. Demikian juga dengan peristiwa sejak tahun 1580 yang mengulas tentang kerajaan Pajang. Namun, untuk cerita selepas era itu, de Graaf tidak berani menyebutnya sebagai data sejarah: terlalu sarat campuran mitologi, kosmologi, dan dongeng...

while, Wangsakerta Manuscript

terlalu historis, isinya tidak umum sebagaimana naskah-naskah sezaman (babad, kidung, tambo, hikayat);

[plutoboyz]

Not rlly....
But, I think not. Javanese and Malay are too lowly to have heavy armor. And the large Euro Horses, they don't fit in
But about the Silatmen, they do exist.
Back to the cataphracts:
It's a Chronicle, and
"Di lebay-lebayin" namanya juga kisah, fiktif belaka. Masa armor emas, gila aja kalee

its not gold, gold give less protection compared to steel. it was steel coated with gold.

[Nyz]

5 levels of temple:

I found that these words are for temple: Rumah Berhala, Kuil, Candi, Wat (Siamese style Buddhist Temple), Huna, Pura, tokong, Kelenteng, while pagoda is not originally Malay word.

5 levels of church:

I suggest that we translated these words into Portuguese and Dutch: Monastery, Abbey, Chapel, Church, Cathedral

[Cute Wolf]

I prefer Wangsakerta. its written by several historian from different background. and from almighty Wiki:


while, Wangsakerta Manuscript

hmm.... so, let's not talk about Raden Wijaya's true paternity then ... I'm affraid if we discuss about this to much, we'll reveal ancient conspiracy theory and twisted fate of the kingdoms
( even maybe he's an illegitimate child or love child )

Back to the nobility then, it was clearly written that Javanese Nobility have some major noble houses, and Raden wijaya are from makuto daha (house of Daha - pretty much Jenggala and Singosari nobles comes from here, including Ken Arok), and his mother was from Singosari lines too.

[Nyz]

Sea Warriors: (using the romano_british faction's unique traits in BI!)
12. Bajak Laut / Sea Warriors (yes, the mallacan straits, sumatran coasts, nusa tenggara, timor, and mollucan spice islands are infested with linked and mutually supporting pirate colonies and sea peoples)

4. As well as romano_british as the Sea Warriors faction, they are the locusts of the sea, and able to mount some serious challanges on lands too... they aren't horde factions, but couldn't be eliminated entirely, and can survive without cities.

Are they in this mod? Maybe as faction, maybe as regional troops, maybe as mercenary...

[Cute Wolf]

Are they in this mod? Maybe as faction, maybe as regional troops, maybe as mercenary...

placeholder for "active rebel" faction, who basically share same rooster as the slave faction