Best Windows OS.

[Hosakawa Tito]

Tito-san, the links you provided agree only on the possibility of utilizing 4+ GB RAM for gaming purposes. The applications still are not optimized and are not looking to be in a middle-term period of time.

So I conclude 64-bit is a bugger, rather than an innovation, for now. Nothing ain't broken and I ain't fixin' it.

If one has no need to "fix it" or upgrade then you are wise to save your money. However, I just purchased a new reasonably cheap *$600* laptop with a 32-bit system to run older programs that are incompatible with my 64-bit desktop. I really had to search for a 32-bit os, most offerings are 64-bit only. Eventually you will submit.

[Tellos Athenaios]

It's actually capped at 4GB in 32-bit but there was some reason I forgot so you can only use about 3.5GB.

Good point about the cars though.
Other than that, 64bit is the way to go.

No. Individual (as opposed to the entire system with all running processes) 32bit applications are by default capped at 2GB maximum memory. This is enforced in the header of the executable binary; and yes you can fix that yourself by setting the binary flag that tells the OS whether or not the application can (is allowed to) handle more than 2GB. CFF explorer will let you do that from a GUI.

[Beskar]

It's actually capped at 4GB in 32-bit but there was some reason I forgot so you can only use about 3.5GB.

Good point about the cars though.
Other than that, 64bit is the way to go.

No. Individual (as opposed to the entire system with all running processes) 32bit applications are by default capped at 2GB maximum memory. This is enforced in the header of the executable binary; and yes you can fix that yourself by setting the binary flag that tells the OS whether or not the application can (is allowed to) handle more than 2GB. CFF explorer will let you do that from a GUI.

This is what I was referring to.

[Husar]

This is what I was referring to.

Oh, I see, but the system as a whole can use more afaik, never had more than 2GB with a 32bit system myself.

[Xiahou]

This is what I was referring to.

I'm still not sure that's quite right. I think we need to seperate out two seperate issues to try to clarify....

First, no 32-bit software will ever support more than 4GB of address space. With 2^32 bits of address space, it's just not possible.

Now, the 2GB limitation comes in once you're talking about Windows. In 32-bit Windows, the most RAM the system would ever see is 3GB and change. That's because, as 32-bit software, it can never(excepting PAE) address address more than 4GB and part of that must be reserved for hardware addresses. By default, 32-bit Windows would reserve part of that for itself, leaving 2GB for user processes. Therefore, 32-bit programs made for Windows never needed to see more than 2GB of RAM and most are not coded to be aware of larger addresses. The 3GB switch that was mentioned previously would make the OS leave 3GB of space available for user processes, but the result would be that the OS would be left with less RAM- generally not a good idea. And even still, no one application would see more than 2GB.

Now, with 64-bit Windows you have many more times the amount of addressable space (2^64). However, most of us are still running 32-bit applications on our 64-bit Windows and the 2GB limitation still applies. In the rare instance when we're running a 64-bit app, it can have access to huge amounts of RAM, but most apps we're using are still 32-bit. The benefit to running a 32-bit app on 64-bit Windows is that you can have a bigger pool of RAM that can be handed out in 2GB or smaller chunks

Here's a table from MSDN that outlines some of what I'm talking about.

[Tellos Athenaios]

The 3GB switch is IIRC intended as a difference between Server and Consumer/Workstation versions of Windows. Much like how Server versions can use more TCP/IP sockets concurrently than Workstations can: an arbitrary restriction imposed on the part of MS. (The restriction is entirely arbitrary in the sense that it was created in the days that RAM starvation would typically occur way before 2GB was used anyways.)

[LeftEyeNine]

Wrong. Those who are not on 64-bit are the s, because they hold back innovation by using internet Explorer 6, etc. Also, let me know how the Horse and cart is getting along in Turkey, as no point getting a car if it isn't 'broken',

Are you distressed about something in your real life ?

[Beskar]

Are you distressed about something in your real life ?

I was just wondering how life was, without technical and engineering progress. No point doing anything different, if it works, right?

Edit: This is commented towards the phrase "Do not fix what is not broken."

[LeftEyeNine]

I take it you haven't had the best time of your life recently. Okay.

[Lemur]

Beskar, it ain't polite to troll a mod in his own sub-forum. He can't respond to you properly (or at least he's not supposed to), 'cause he's supposed to maintain the peace. I'll pitch in:

I was just wondering how life was, without technical and engineering progress. No point doing anything different, if it works, right?

Beskar, you want to know what's sad about people like you, who gladly fork over money for Windows Vista and the Segway Personal Transport? What's really sad is that without early victims adopters like you, our economy would implode.

[Beskar]

Beskar, you want to know what's sad about people like you, who gladly fork over money for Windows Vista and the Segway Personal Transport? What's really sad is that without early victims adopters like you, our economy would implode.

I already contacted LEN and apologised to him over PM, I was out of order. So I am not going to continue that.

However, to explain my position in reference to your response, I would like to point-out the following:

I would like to draw a very crucial difference Lemur to your example and me. I would never buy a Segway, they are a complete waste of money, I wouldn't buy Windows Vista either (though I owned a free copy of Vista Ultimate), though I would advocate Windows 7. I am also very money concious individual, I don't even own an iPod, simply as it would be a waste of money for me (when I did, it was cheaper than a portable hard drive). I usually buy things when they are at a good price. Even then, a Segway isn't progress, it is a waste-of-space-gress.

Progress is when things are getting held up because people refuse to move from Internet Explorer 6, with its vast array of bugs and problems. The whole 64-architechure for instance has been in the market for over 5 years now, first with the iMac G4 series, I believe, and including Windows XP had the 64-bit option. There are obvious massive advantages to this, but some how, some where, and unknown reasons to why, people are simply refusing to make the change, even worse is arguably these companies who still ship 32-bit only computers and shipped them within the last 5 years. Progress is the force of innovation, advancement and betterment. However, what is the point in progress when it is simply bottlenecked to the point it feels like a hinderance. I have owned different computers over the years which are 64-capable, however, there is very limited 64-bit applications because many companies simply don't bother to cater for 64-bit, as there is still a numerous 32-bit only out there. In otherwords, progress is simply being held back for no reason at all.

Also, no one gets excited about the latest Acrobat update, simply because vast majority of the time, it isn't really an improvement of anything.


As for LEN, I didn't mean it personally against him and I don't harbour any ill-feelings towards him personally. If anything, I harbour ill-feelings to human nature in general. To clarify this, humans in general hate change and any change, they don't like anything that is change. As such, when Obama cried change, there was a collective shiver down the spine of American people, ready to get their pitchforks out.

I am a different breed of person, I really love positive change. To make things better, to improve, I am an idealist, I see what we got and how to make it better. When some one goes "This has been that way since 1849" I automatically think "Surely, there must have came up with a better way by now". I see History as stepping stones to advancement, learn from the past, create today, tomorrow is the bright future.

So when the attitude of sticking your head in the sand going "lalala" comes about, usually stereotyped with that saying, it usually jar-grates me.

Also, we are really off-topic. Fancy a cup-of-tea?

[LeftEyeNine]

Uh, well, hey, out of tea but what about cold beer ?

About the little trouble we had here; thanks to Beskar's constructive approach, nothing of any real importance exists. Although less frequently than me, everybody could mess up a bit from time to time. The aftermath is generally what matters in such circumstances, rather than the shock itself.

On topic: I am a supporter of innovation. I took my first chance to upgrade to Windows 7, but yes, 32-bit. Possessing 2 GB of RAM for the moment, the 64-bit hassle is not crucial for me and until then it seems to me nothing more than troubles that could pop up anytime. Windows 7 hasn't settled yet, let alone what 64-bit could make me encounter. So I prefer to sit back and watch this non-revolutionary revolution and upgrade to it when it is the standard.

For your information, I don't have one program on my PC that is not the latest version. I'm an update hoar.

And that makes it a deal. Over. BURRRP- sorray.

[Lemur]

Fancy a cup-of-tea?

English breakfast, please. And I take it with a bit of milk and sugar, just like a proper lady should.

[CrossLOPER]

Milk mixed with sugar is the only real breakfast.

[Furunculus]

win 7 64 bit.

[al Roumi]

Given the improvements mentioned by several posters in the first page of this thread, i find it both funny and upsetting that the key features in Windows' advertising are the snap feature. If that is simmultaneously the main advancement that win7 offers and the main reason people buy it, isn't this one of the saddest indictments of MS' product, its creativity and us as consumers? Or just their cynical, pisspoor marketing startegy?

It had better be the latter.

That said, I'm a PC and Win7 was my idea. [retch] [/retch]

I am happy with Win7 64 cos it runs much faster and better than XP 32.

/nerd rage.

[Tellos Athenaios]

What snap feature? And how is that unique? Tiling window manager have been there, done that since the dawn of X? And to think I only bought Windows 7 'cause I figured that €45 was sort of not too much money to spend on another 3 to 5 years of maintenance -- I figure they'll close the maintenance window of Vista early (plus it gave me an upgrade to the slightly less handcuffed Professional version instead of Home Premium).

Oh well.

[pevergreen]

Its faster, prettier, doesnt crash, and it let me change everything to orange really easily (i didnt like XP's method of that)

[Tellos Athenaios]

Actually it does. It has some weird suspend/wakeup IRQ problem with graphics cards that may cause it to generate BSOD from time to time. Then again, last time I booted Win 7 would be a month ago or more, maybe it's fixed now.

[al Roumi]

Actually it does. It has some weird suspend/wakeup IRQ problem with graphics cards that may cause it to generate BSOD from time to time. Then again, last time I booted Win 7 would be a month ago or more, maybe it's fixed now.

I have had 2 post auto-update problems where I've had to do a system restore, but no BSODs.