Whats happened to this forum?

[Subotan]

In fact you and PI are among the few new/young members that "managed" to fit. You in particular are still in the process imo.

Does this mean I'm considered an "old member"?

[CountArach]

Yes, i know. But this is precisely the point. The conservatism of the community evidently won't be overcome by the community. It needs a bold move, by the administration/staff, assuming of course they judge that such a move is desirable.

I haven't got the time to look through everything on this thread, but this caught my eye. The problem with this idea is that you seem to assume a disconnect between staff members and forum members. Staff members are forum members first and we are responsive to the will of the forum more so than we are our own whims (we are also incredibly collaborative behind-the-scenes, far more than I thought before becoming part of staff). Such a bold step that you think is needed (probably correctly) would go against this ethos and I, for one, would be uncomfortable with staff members overwriting the will of the community just because we think it is better for the community.

[Beefy187]

And I'm totally older than Beefy. And maybe GH as well, I forget.

Funny that.
Asian people thinks I'm in the late 20s.
Europeans thinks I'm still a grade 10ner

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

As for the future of this site. Time changes.
People comes and leaves.
Game which used to excite us doesn't any more.
Its a shame but what ever change we implement, the fall is inevidable.
Our base is TW games. Even if we expand it to other games as well, we cannot match the quality of those forum dedicated to those games.
Most new comers come here for information on TW. Not for nice mates to hang around with or for taverns.

If TW dies out. We go as well.

That is the current situation. But we could easily over come this with the quantity and quality of our members

[Kagemusha]

Funny that.
Asian people thinks I'm in the late 20s.
Europeans thinks I'm still a grade 10ner

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

As for the future of this site. Time changes.
People comes and leaves.
Game which used to excite us doesn't any more.
Its a shame but what ever change we implement, the fall is inevidable.
Our base is TW games. Even if we expand it to other games as well, we cannot match the quality of those forum dedicated to those games.
Most new comers come here for information on TW. Not for nice mates to hang around with or for taverns.

If TW dies out. We go as well.

That is the current situation. But we could easily over come this with the quantity and quality of our members

Also it will be quite probaly that sooner or later we will witness the release of either R2TW (most propably) or S2TW ( bit less). And i am quite sure that both titles would strike home in this audience. Thus we have to survive untill that happens and not bury our heads in the sand.

[Beefy187]

I'll stick around. And if those 2 titles are going to be the next release... I might even buy them.

If worst comes to worst, we can set up a TosaInu coorporation and take over CA

[caravel]

The abolition of the avatar restrictions make perfect sense. People like to be individuals, but the avatars here are anything but. It would be nice if a choice of avatars were available (I'm not referring to the URL avatars - they are only viewable by registered members and are an addtion to the default avatars). Opening up the avatar selection to allow users to upload their own would be well worth it. What is the biggest problem? Me having the fluffy bunny avatar I've always wanted, or the person with massive signature that takes up two thirds of your screen? It's pointless having uniform avatars without also restricting the signatures to be "total war" related as well.

As to the junior members rank, I've never been able to make up my mind on that one. But really I think it needs to be abolished for the good of the site. To the moderators (and ex moderators including myself) it may seem a great idea for the following reasons:

1) Spambots are restricted to certain forums, thus easier to track down.

2) Those of malintent that want to register alts to cheat at polls are hampered from doing so.

3) Flaming/bashing/trolling posts cannot be edited out / the user has to think about their post before they post it.

Cannot think of any more reasons offhand.


To challenge those points:

1) No longer an issue, in the past when JMs were restricted to only the entrance hall, this was worthwhile, nowadays when JMs can post almost anywhere and every spambot has a fetish for "Spartan Total Warrior" and any forum moderated by pevergreen it's irrelevant.

2) Still valid, but assumes every member is a "criminal". Basing how the forum runs around a few idiots is not worth inconveniencing everyone else for.

3) Also assumes that JMs are inherently not to be trusted and should be viewed with suspicion until they've proven themselves. Stopping a JM from editing is also pointless as anyone can make a mistake and have a hot headed moment that they later regret (I'm sure we've all been there?), it doesn't mean that they're immediately an undesirable that the .org can do without. The ability for a member to retract a bad post is important and saves a lot of work for mods. It also cuts down on double posts and is less frustrating for new members.

I think these changes would benefit the .org and it's members - given a chance - and would not be "turning it into TWC" (which I also oppose) or attracting the wrong kind of patron.

[Andres]

The abolition of the avatar restrictions make perfect sense. People like to be individuals, but the avatars here are anything but. It would be nice if a choice of avatars were available (I'm not referring to the URL avatars - they are only viewable by registered members and are an addtion to the default avatars). Opening up the avatar selection to allow users to upload their own would be well worth it.

I like the current avatar system. It makes me feel special

[gollum]

Origninally posted by CA
I haven't got the time to look through everything on this thread, but this caught my eye. The problem with this idea is that you seem to assume a disconnect between staff members and forum members. Staff members are forum members first and we are responsive to the will of the forum more so than we are our own whims (we are also incredibly collaborative behind-the-scenes, far more than I thought before becoming part of staff). Such a bold step that you think is needed (probably correctly) would go against this ethos and I, for one, would be uncomfortable with staff members overwriting the will of the community just because we think it is better for the community.

In fact i think that the community and teh staff are indeed becoming increasingly one and the same thing and this is the root and effect at the same time of the problem. The community is the staff because that's how its meant to be in order to be the community.

My points about warman meant not to reopen the discussion and the drama surrounding it - they meant to show an example.

PrinceC: i undrstand where you are coming from but i disagree (respectfully) with you.

Pever: it has nothing to do with mental powers, but with age. It doesnt mean you are no good or dump or anything - just taht your time to dwelve deep in this kind of thing hasn;t come yet. It doesnt mean anything other than that.

Also dont be in a hurry to grow up - because you might end up doing at 40 what you haven't done at 20 like most. At 19 be 19 and at 99 be 99 if you want my opinion. The last sentence meant to read "thank you" for not opening the moderation of the redoubt disagreement.

Sorry for the quick answers, just being pressed for time.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I also agree that current avatar system is good enough. I have an ORG avatar in TWC as well(I think, haven't been there for some time..)!

[Prince Cobra]

My points about warman meant not to reopen the discussion and the drama surrounding it - they meant to show an example.

PrinceC: i undrstand where you are coming from but i disagree (respectfully) with you.

Well, I certainly did not want to begin a new pointless debate. About the second, I respectfully disagree that you know where I come from. Assumptions are tricky things, sometimes they can be wrong.

Back to topic: Well, I love this avatar of mine and somehow, it would be hard to imagine the Org. without those nice avatars. A second, more random (how random is a matter of further clarification) avatar could exist, even with the main skin (for the registered members, say). However, the old avatars (updated or not) must stay and add a specific atmosphere in the Org. I am sure those members who want to be different can easily remake their TW avatars with a painting program. I think when there is one standard people get more creative in order to become different.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Btw, since we talk about avatars at the moment, it is possible to get custom made avatars if they fit the current avatar sizes. Just ask Tosa if you can use it and he will make it happen(i think...)

[Jolt]

Read all of the thread, and I agree with most suggestions given. I would like to stress the end of the Avatar restrictions, which seem really weird. So long as you impose a set of restrictions on size and subject of the avatar, I don't see any inconvinience with having personalized avatars.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Imposing restrictions on "subject" for avatars is a ton of work for the mods/admin. I personally like the avatar restrictions, and it seems like the community generally does as well. I'm down for another vote on the matter, but remember when overruling the "conservative" forum population you may lose more than you gain.

[pevergreen]

Btw, since we talk about avatars at the moment, it is possible to get custom made avatars if they fit the current avatar sizes. Just ask Tosa if you can use it and he will make it happen(i think...)

Unsure if anyone here is aware of this, but custom avatars already exist.

Your URL avatar can be about whatever you want... Many people use them in favour of the normal avatar already.

[gollum]

Just to make it clear PrinceC; i mean that i disagree with you about whether the org should stay as it is or not. Not about warman.

[Centurion1]

whats a "new member" when do you become an accepted member?

[pevergreen]

Generally they are done in batches, and every few weeks.

Could take a few days, could take a few weeks. Rare for it to last a month.

[caravel]

whats a "new member" when do you become an accepted member?

IIRC, a new member is a member that has not yet activated their account by clicking the email confirmation link.

Yohei

[Fixiwee]

I like how gollum talked about that a certain type of member does not fit to the org and I oddly thought that I fitted into that description. >:(

[TosaInu]

Fixiwee,

It's not a certain type of member not fitting the org. If you read it to mean that any person doesn't feel comfortable here, that's possible of course. It's a certain type of behavior that's not accepted.

It's also not true that certain opinions, beliefs, ways of life etc. are not welcome here. Both G.W. Bush and O. Bin Laden can become member, get Backroom access, be welcome and become a valuable gem here. They don't have to like each other or agree about anything.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Fixiwee,

It's not a certain type of member not fitting the org. If you read it to mean that any person doesn't feel comfortable here, that's possible of course. It's a certain type of behavior that's not accepted.

It's also not true that certain opinions, beliefs, ways of life etc. are not welcome here. Both G.W. Bush and O. Bin Laden can become member, get Backroom access, be welcome and become a valuable gem here. They don't have to like each other or agree about anything.

That would be interesting. Should we send them an invite?

[Fixiwee]

Fixiwee,

It's not a certain type of member not fitting the org. If you read it to mean that any person doesn't feel comfortable here, that's possible of course. It's a certain type of behavior that's not accepted.

It's also not true that certain opinions, beliefs, ways of life etc. are not welcome here. Both G.W. Bush and O. Bin Laden can become member, get Backroom access, be welcome and become a valuable gem here. They don't have to like each other or agree about anything.

Try to compare an Orgah with a SA Goon. The latter does not fit here.
I have long accepted the fact that this is a forum with rigerous and restrictiv moderation. I respect that, but that does not mean I have to be active here.

[TosaInu]

About what I said too Fixiwee. Noone forces anyone to stay here, but noone will force anyone to leave either (unless that person fails to behave on this board).

Will you become their mentor Ibn-Khaldun?

[gollum]

Tosainu: its your board and your call.

However consider that what tw was is gone. Its something different now and this site cannot remain connected to its present reality with the line it has but only to the memory of what was its reality once upon a time.

The org is special and a nice place to be. It may be getting a bit too special and too nice though. The things you say are true and also not true - we can analyse it in depth but it will be useless because i know just as well as you know that there is a subjective/personal element there (as it should be), the collective subjective element of admins + staff that sets the line of what type of member (with its attendant behaviour) is and is not acceptable, what opinions are and are not debatable etc. It isn't simply a matter of saying that different opinions etc are possible in paper - it is a matter of seeing how this pluralism is happening in reality. And the reality is that there is a homogeneity that is protected and defended by the majority of the regulars/staff/admins proudly even. The homogeneity does not only encompasses behaviour but also trends of opinions in many cases.

However, i repeat that tw is not what it used to be and so the org is not what it used to be. This is a real situation and you guys have a real choice to make. I know that you are strong willed, and that's a virtue is many instances. However not in all. In any case the decision is up to you at the end of the day and the rest of the staff. I am well aware that the org most likely will keep the course it has at the moment. However, i'm not sure if it will help it in terms of environment. The last line of integarted regular members have matured (yaseikhan, count arach, psychonaut/rythmic), and assuming pevergreen becomes a mod too - what then?

Who will take up the torch then? There are almost none left i'm afraid and even fewer in tw strictly related sub forums.

[pevergreen]

The last line of integarted regular members have matured (yaseikhan, count arach, psychonaut/rythmic), and assuming pevergreen becomes a mod too - what then?

Who will take up the torch then? There are almost none left i'm afraid and even fewer in tw strictly related sub forums.

You have to look at the join dates. Some were years before me, some a year or two after. When I came here, it was pretty much the first big forum that I stayed at for more than a week or so. The moderating team was just...right. (I know this is probably going off on a tangent)

I've always held the opinion of .org staff, that they are generally older, more mature people than the average member. (Hence my surprise when I first saw a picture of BKS). Its true quite a few of the more 'recent' moderators are coming down in age, but they do show maturity here, if not always IRL *looks at CountArach *

They do a great job of enforcing and being a normal member as well. Don't know how Tosa/whoever else picks them, but they seem to do quite well.

Hence why I won't be becoming a mod

[TosaInu]

Hello,

There have always been young to very young staffmembers. Age is not a criteria. I know people who are only 10 years old who act like a stable 40 year old adult and I know 40 year old adults who act like a 10 year old kid. That doesn't need to be a reason to reject a member to become staff. A youthful approach will be refreshing, but how will he or she act whenever there's some stress.

[gollum]

You'll become a mod when you stop wanting/wishing to become a mod. I think you have uncosciously (and a bit consciously) understood this, and so you are on your way to there. Being a mod requires one not being dragged by his passions and liking and understanding people in general, as well as knowing what good measure is and what is not. It also requires a genuine love and knowledge forthe area one will be called to moderate. You'll get there eventually, but slowly - a step at a time.

PS By "the last line of integrated regular members have matured" i meant that they have matured in terms of their membership. I mean matured in the cycle "lurker, newby, established member, senior member, mod, senior member, lurker".

[tibilicus]

Iv'e actually wondered how the selection process for moderation happens. I kind of assumed you had to make it known that you wished to moderate a forum before you were offered the position of moderator. I'm not aware how one would go about doing that though.

When I was an assistant moderator I was voted in (fun times). I did of course volunteer before hand. Unfortunately my replacement isn't, errrrr, with us any more, but the whole voting for the assistant moderator was specific to the time and the type of forum I was assistant moderating. Again, still no idea how moderators emerge.

[Centurion1]

I just want to know gollum when you decide a member has become accepted by the community? when they win an award......

[Subotan]

In that case I will never become an accepted member.

IMHO, the awards are part of the problem. They encourage clique-iness