EBNOM official discussion thread

[Iain.]

o
You've mentioned that they are too armoured to be Numidians, however the Numidians became more and more "romanised", and started using heavier armour, with them being so close to Rome.

Aren't the helmets Assyrian helmets though? How did that come about? Or is it just a helmet that kind of looks like an Assyrian helm?

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

You have suspicusly accurate answers... These guys are indeed Late Numidian Nobles; expect to see more soon :)

@Gracchus
You've mentioned that they are too armoured to be Numidians, however the Numidians became more and more "romanised", and started using heavier armour, with them being so close to Rome.

Nice!
And, yes, I was thinking too much in terms of EB period Numidians... doh!

Look forward to the preview....and to the mod. Its looking really, really good. Brilliant work, from what I've seen so far

[Nyz]

You have suspicusly accurate answers... These guys are indeed Late Numidian Nobles; expect to see more soon :)

Gldgmtk is not too accurate though.... the more accurate one is "Late Gldgmtk" hahaha. Just kidding.

[anubis88]

Aren't the helmets Assyrian helmets though? How did that come about? Or is it just a helmet that kind of looks like an Assyrian helm?

It just looks like the Assyrian helmet, but it's the traditional "pointy" Numidian helmet. Not every guy would wear such a helmet, but since this isn't MTW, one had to be chosen, and we think this one looks best :) It may even get a feather sticking out of it in the future

Oh... And thanks for the kind words guys... We are doing our best, and have some great guys on board, so hopefully we will be able to create a mod worthy of EB's name.

[Atraphoenix]

Pontus needs Catas the only. Blitz romanoi and change the tide of history kill caesar :-)

[Morte66]

Well I'll look forward to Pontus kicking the Romans back to Europe and liberating Asia Minor, then.

[LDC]

Things are good right now with the mod.. Expect something in the near future.

[Atraphoenix]

Things are good right now with the mod.. Expect something in the near future.

Look forward to see it :-)

[anubis88]

1 preview is almost ready, while 2 should be up shortly as well, since we are making nice progress on some factions...

[Ca Putt]

great work!

but please don't make it for Alex.exe, they don't sell that around these parts :D

[anubis88]

great work!

but please don't make it for Alex.exe, they don't sell that around these parts :D

It will be for the BI.exe; don't worry :)

[Lionheart]

The preview is coming. In a short time after a few problems have been solved.

[Finn MacCumhail]

Welcome to the org, Lionheart!

[Arjos]

Sorry if this has been said, but what is the end date for the mod?

[anubis88]

Sorry if this has been said, but what is the end date for the mod?

We are planning on 180 AD, the end of the adoptive Emperors...

[Lionheart]

Tank's for the welcoming. Soon a new preview will appear. It's a promise. He are working hard to get that done.

[gamegeek2]

What is it? Who are they? Their owners?

[Nyz]

The shield pattern look like Serapis, the Hellenistic-Egyptian God. Ptolemaioi?

[MButcher]

intifadanyz hit it right on the dot. I agree completely, once I saw Serapis alarms went off in my head. I would say that they're the new Ptolemaic Agema Hippeon, or Xystonphoroi.

Either way, they look spectacular!

[gamegeek2]

Wow, you guys are smart. EB does teach you well :)

[Nyz]

Wow, you guys are smart. EB does teach you well :)

Make a preview already as the reward. Or we have to guess about what kind of preview that you all want to show us?

[anubis88]

Don't worry, the preview is all but made... I think we just need 2 unit cards or so, and the preview will be posted :)

And then the work on the next preview will start...

and the next preview....

and the next ....

[Reno Melitensis]

You are doing a good work guys. One question, sorry if it has been asked before, as the mod is going to end in 180 AD, and that's a long time, are there any plans for emergent factions due to the adoption of the BI exe.

Cheers.

[Lionheart]

After hard work do by myself and specially Finn and LDC (the masters of the cards and so on) one preview appears to be ready. I only need permission of Anubis and gg2 and perhaps soon the preview will be posted. I believe that you will not be disappointed.

[Lionheart]

So the signature is already visible?

[Lionheart]

Greetings Europa Barbarorum fans.
We are proud to present the second preview of our new late campaing mod
Europa Barbarorum : Novus Ordo Mundi
Today we will present a new faction: the Kingdom of Numidia/Mamla'ha biMassylim.

We are proud to present the Kingdom of Numidia/Mamla'ha biMassylim.



The faction symbol

The well know horse and with a blue back.

Why the horse?

Numidian cavalry was a type of light cavalry developed by the Numidians, most notably used by Hannibal during the Second Punic War. They were described by the Roman historian Livy as "by far the best horsemen in Africa."
The Numidian cavalry's horses, ancestors of the Arabian horse, were smaller than those of the contemporary Roman cavalry and were well adapted for faster movement.To conserve weight, the cavalrymen did not use a saddle or bridle, did not wear armor, and carried smaller shields. Their weaponry consisted mainly of spears and javelins, in addition to a short sword.
Due to their expert horsemanship and agility, they were most suitable for charging and then dispersing, an effective tactic for harassing the enemy and breaking up their formations.
Numidian cavalry were widely known and not only fought in the Carthaginian army, but in other armies of the time as mercenaries.Even the Roman army will employ Numidian light cavalry in separate units (equites Numidarum or Maurorum).

Historical Background

Numidia (202 BC – 46 BC) was an ancient Berber kingdom in present-day Algeria and part of Tunisia (North Africa) that later alternated between being a Roman province and being a Roman client state.
It was located on the eastern border of modern Algeria, bordered by the Roman province of Mauretania (in modern day Algeria and Morocco) to the west, the Roman province of Africa (modern day Tunisia) to the east, the Mediterranean Sea to the north, and the Sahara Desert to the south. Its people were the Numidians.
The name Numidia was first applied by Polybius and other historians during the third century BC to indicate the territory west of Carthage, including the entire north of Algeria as far as the river Mulucha (Muluya), about 100 miles west of Oran. The Numidians were conceived of as two great tribal groups: the Massylii in eastern Numidia, and the Masaesyli in the west.
They take a great part during the second Punic War: somethimes they supported Carthage and other times they supported Rome.
After the end of the war king Masinissa become the first king of Numidia having full authority over the two groups that until that time existed was separated kingdoms. When the king died in 148 B.C. the Numidian kingdom extended from Mauretania to the boundary of the Carthaginian territory, and also southeast as far as Cyrenaica, so that Numidia entirely surrounded Carthage (this is refered in Appian work). One of the causes for the third Punic War was the constant expansion of Numidia. When Carthage try to fight back they broke the peace treaty that have with Rome so the words of Cato "Delenda Carthago Est" become a reality.
After the death of Micipsa, son and heir of Masinissa, in 118 B.C. the kingdom was divided between: Hiempsal I and Adherbal, sons of the king and Masinissa's illegitimate grandson Jugurtha. Jugurtha ordered the murderer of Hiempsal and war erupted between him and Adherbal.
After Jugurtha defeated him in open battle, Adherbal fled to Rome for help. The Roman officials, allegedly due to bribes but perhaps more likely because of a desire to quickly end conflict in a profitable client kingdom, settled the fight by dividing Numidia into two parts. Jugurtha was assigned the western half.
By 112 Jugurtha resumed his war with Adherbal. He incurred the wrath of Rome in the process by killing some Roman businessmen who were aiding Adherbal. After a brief war with Rome, Jugurtha surrendered and received a highly favourable peace treaty, which raised suspicions of bribery once more.
War broke out between Numidia and the Roman Republic and several legions were dispatched to North Africa under the command of the Consul Quintus Caecilius Metellus Numidicus. The war dragged out into a long and seemingly endless campaign as the Romans tried to defeat Jugurtha decisively. Frustrated at the apparent lack of action, Metellus' lieutenant Gaius Marius returned to Rome to seek election as Consul. Marius was elected, and then returned to Numidia to take control of the war. He sent his Quaestor Lucius Cornelius Sulla to neighbouring Mauretania in order to eliminate their support for Jugurtha. With the help of Bocchus I of Mauretania, Sulla captured Jugurtha and brought the war to a conclusive end. Jugurtha was brought to Rome in chains and was placed in the Tullianum.
Jugurtha was executed by the Romans in 104 BC, after being paraded through the streets in Gaius Marius' Triumph.
After the death of Jugurtha, western Numidia was added to the lands of Bocchus, king of Mauretania, while the remainder (excluding Cyrene and its locality) continued to be governed by native princes until the civil war between Caesar and Pompey. Gauda, was the sucessor of Jugurtha and was a loyal vassal of the roman senate. After is death is son Hiempsal II took the throne. This ruler supported Sulla and kept is throne.
In the civil war between Pompey and Caesar king Juba I, son of king Hiempsal II, supported Pompey and the Republicans against Caesar and in the end died at the hands of Petreius after a honorable fight between them. Petreius committed suicide after that.
After Cato the Younger was defeated by Caesar, he committed suicide (46 BC) in Utica, and Numidia became briefly the province of Africa Nova until Augustus restored Juba II (son of Juba I) after the Battle of Actium.
Soon afterwards, in 25 BC, Juba was transferred to the throne of Mauretania, and Numidia was divided between Mauretania and the province of Africa Nova.

Starting territory :

You will start with territories between the Roman Province of Africa and the regions of Mauretania.You should not forget that you are a client ruler apointed by the Senate of Roma.You should be sharp, you will need to rule wisely because your people do not forget that you gained your throne like your father by the hand of strangers. Some still dream like Jugurtha. They dream with a strong country and a land free from the domain of the Romans. Try to expand as fast as you can and once you will have most of North Africa under your command, you will be able to muster a good army that could defend your new empire. You must also develop the best of the African armies to strenghten the faith of your people.This will be a tough campaing, but if you prove yourself worthy you could gain the heart of your people, you can conquer further lands and dream of glory in the battlefields. Finaly in the end you could equal the achievements of the great Masinissa and perhaps fulfill the dream of Jugurtha.

[Lionheart]

The Army of the king

- Numidian Skirmishers



Numidian javelinmen are fast moving skirmishers trained from infancy in the use of the javelin for hunting. They are recruited from amongst nomadic peoples who need their weapon skills to survive in harsh conditions.
They are best employed to harry enemies and thin their ranks with volleys of missiles. They should avoid being sucked into hand-to-hand combat, as their knives are more useful in skinning animals than killing men; also, other than a small shield they have no armour.


- Qala'im Numidim (Numidian Slingers)



Numidian slingers came from the shepherd nomads who used their slings to protect their herds from predators. They're quite skilled with their slings, which truly is a deceptively simple weapon. One end of the sling is looped around his wrist while the other is released when the stone is launched. A sling bullet would not be seen in flight and was capable of shattering a shield or penetrating unarmored flesh to a range of about 100 metres when slung by a skilled man.
Numidian slingers are best used as light skirmishers. With no armor and very simple melee weapons, they rush forward toward the enemy to pepper them with stones, only to flee when threatened.
Historically, slingers seem to have been used in almost all corners of the world in some form and North Africa was no exception. Hand slings are very easy and cheap to make, and yet they are a respectable weapon. They generally consisted of a single long strip of leather or woven wool, with a central "pocket" for the stone. The longer the sling, the greater its range.

- Numidian Cavalry



Numidia produces some of the finest cavalry in all Africa, if not the Western Mediterranean world. Armed with javelins, these mounted skirmishers can be a nightmare for an opponent as it can prove practically impossible to pin them down in combat. Their tactics are to pelt the enemy with deadly volleys of javelins, and then swiftly retreat when charged. If the enemy stand, they are slaughtered with volleys of javelins, and if they run the Numidian cavalry can ride them down!
Instinctive riders, the Numidians are famed for not using a saddle or reins, using only a stick to direct their horses. Nevertheless, they maneuver with the "grace of a flock of birds". Having adapted to the broken expanses of their homelands, Numidian cavalry have great stamina, and they are also experts in their form of the Cantabrian circle attack.

- Kasatim Numidim (Numidian Archers)



Ever since the dawn of our people, we have fought from a distance. With sling and javelin we conquered the sands, only the cowardly settled people behind their walls resisting our might. When the Phoenicians came, they conspired with our settled cousins and drove us into our desert homeland. To our shame, the newcomers had a weapon that could outperform our traditional arms. But we adapted, we adopted, and we gained prominence again. With their composite bows in our hands, we became the most feared and sought after archers in the Western Mediterranean. We wear none of the coward's armor, for it slows us in battle. Our stout Canaanite bows deliver death from afar, sending heavy arrows tearing through the ranks of the armored enemy. With a hat-helm protecting us from the harshness of the sun, we can deliver volley after volley of indirect fire. When the enemy is routed, we descend upon him like ravenous hyenas, and bash their heads in with our cudgels. If attacked up close, we can give a good enough account of ourselves, as our weapons will tackle all but the most heavily armored infantry, but we believe this is a waste of good archers. Use us wisely, general, and remember that we can win battles for you if employed properly.
Historically, the Numidian peoples lacked all but the simple bow until the arrival of Phoenicians at the end of the Bronze Age. Though it took some time, Numidians began to take up the bow with tremendous vigor. Soon, Carthage itself was replacing Phoenician archers with Numidian, and sending the former to become Marines in her great navy. Numidian archers were battle winners for the Romans as well, giving extremely good accounts of themselves under Caesar and against the Celts and Germans who resisted the onslaught of Rome.

- Gldgmtk (Numidian Nobles)



The Numidian Nobles are the high ranking class of Numidia. Trained in the hit and run tactics of their lower caste comrades they also wield heavier equipment and armour. These heavier cavalry are capable bodyguards and can be effective on the charge but they are not on the same class as the heavy cavalry of other lands. Their greatest use lies in their speed, maneuverability, and accuracy with their javelins.
Historically, in Numidia there was a class of nobles that ruled under the chiefs and kings and later under the sole king of Numidia. These nobles existed in both parts of Numidia, Numidia as it is known today which was dominated by the Massylians, and further north west where the area was dominated by the Masaesylian Numidians. These nobles often acted as the bodyguards and royal soldiers of the king, particularly under the reign of Jugurtha. In Sallust’s account of the Jugurthine war he mentions that in a route, only the Royal Cavalry could be counted upon to remain at the King’s side and not disperse into the countryside. The term GLDGMTK used here is from the Libyan dialect spoken by the Numidians and comes from several noble titles on inscriptions from the town of Thugga. The title translates loosely as 'Prefect of Fifty'. The other common title in Thugga was 'Chief of One Hundred'. The Numidian kings later chose to use Spanish and Gaulish mercenaries as their bodyguards instead of relying on the noble class.

- War Elephants (two diferent types with tower and without)




In the work of Sallust appear several references to the use of combat elephants by the Numidian king in is combat agains the Romans. The same goes for Caesar: "He [Juba] himself followed on more slowly with the rest of his forces and sixty elephants." -- Caesar, The Civil War (describing Curio's annihilation by Juba's Numidians). Elephants were not used until the second century BC.The elephants are the African forest elephant species which were smaller than Indian Elephants used in the East and stood 7-8 feet (2.15m - 2.45m) tall at the shoulder.
Imported from the regions far south of Aigyptos or from the mountain forests of northwestern Africa, forest elephants are an exceptionally valuable resource in combat.
Owering over most other creatures, they can easily scare men and horses alike, with both their size and smell, though elaborate bells and trappings often add to their intimidation. Such corps are directed by their own mahouts riding behind their heads, often a native of their own country who has spent at least two years training his beast from capture. The mahout is armored to better protect against the obvious assault that generally comes against him, launched to bypass the thick natural armor of his mount.
Elephants are best used as cavalry screens for your army, where their presence can scare away enemy cavalry. They can also be used to ram through an enemy battle line, though they are less useful when faced with loose order or phalanx infantry. Pyrrhos of Epeiros even innovated a tactic of flank screens when he fought the Romans at Heraklea. Beyond their obvious use against enemy infantry or cavalry, they can also be used in siege combat; battering down gates, though they're highly vulnerable to better prepared installations. Their greatest vulnerability is against skirmishers, slingers and archers, who can pepper them with missiles - eventually toppling them by virtue of their cumulative impact. To counter the effect of enemy skirmishers, it is often wise to array your own in opposition, or to maintain constant attacks upon each individual group.
Despite their great usefulness when properly employed, it was not unusual for elephants to cause defeat for those who employed them. If an enemy was clever enough to devise their own means to combat elephants, as was the case at the battle of Gaza when Ptolemaios planted an ‘iron spiked minefield’ to ward off elephants, or when Caesar properly utilized slingers and Scipio gaps between his infantry cohorts to channel the elephants, they could be defeated and even turned against their masters. Even pigs were used on occasion, released among elephants who were often scared of their comparatively small, darting forms. However, despite the many different weapons and stratagems being devised to fight them and the huge expenses required to maintain them, the elephant was still considered a valuable asset, maintained widely.

- Dorkim Garamantim (Garamantine Infantry)



The Garamantine warriors are masters of hit and run tactics. Striking in raids from their oasis strongholds they attack towns, outposts, watchtowers, and nomadic tribes. They fight first with throwing spears and javelins but can close or hold when necessary with their spears and leather shields. They wear ostrich feathers tied to their heads to make them appear more fearsome and impressive and wear a cow skin cloak for protection both on the battlefield and against the natural environment.
The Garamantines were a group of Berber tribes living in North central Africa on the fringe of the Sahara desert that herded cattle and irrigated farmland. They conducted raids against towns to the North and against the nomadic Saharan people known to the Greeks as the Troglodytai. The Garamantines reached dominance in the second and third century AD and are often referred to as one of the first great Berber nations. They fought on foot, from horseback and from chariots. Much of the evidence for their equipment comes from their own rock art and Egyptian paintings of Libyan soldiers. Herodotos refers to the Garamantes as a fierce and aggressive tribe that would hunt down the Troglodytai but also says that they are a people who know little of war. Herodotos made the Garamantines famous for his fanciful tale of the cattle they raised which supposedly had horns so long they had to graze backwards.

- Dorkim Maurim (Maure Infantry)



Maure infantry are fast moving skirmishing troops used by the Carthaginians and Berber chieftains. They are recruited from the most Western provinces of North Africa. A land known by their warriors and their unique fighting style. They are armed with javelins and a sword of North African origin, similar to the Takouba used these days by the Tuareg people. The Maures are protected by a shield made of elephant hide and by a tunic made of animal fur that they use like it was a breastplate.
They should avoid being sucked into hand-to-hand combat, as they do better in the job of harassing the enemy with their javelins. Their tactics are to pelt the enemy with deadly volleys of javelins, and then swiftly retreat when charged.
Historically, Maures were very similar to their Numidian neighbors. Greek and Roman historians say they were darker than other North African tribes, to the point to be called “Western Ethiopians”. They were also great warriors and were one of the troops mentioned by Hannibal in his inscription left in Italy.

- Somrei HaMele'h (Gallo-Iberic Bodyguards)



These men are the best of the best. Recruted between mercenaries and others that desire to serve the king."When Juba was informed by Saburra of the battle during the night he sent him as reinforcements two thousand Spanish and Gallic cavalry, whom he was accustomed to keep by him as a personal bodyguard together with the most reliable part of the infantry" -- Caesar, The Civil War (describing Curio's annihilation by Juba's Numidians).
Their mission is only one...to give their life for him. They also protect the other members of the royal family or their most important generals. They are a elite unit with a fierce attack and high degree of stamina. They fight until the last men to protect. Surrender or flee the field or fail their mission in anyway does not exist for them. They are the best and the most trustworthy troops that a Numidian king could have.They are well armed and are rather fast in the batlefields. Also they will possess a great amount of stamina and like is countrymen they have a powerful charge doubled by the fact that they are on horseback.
Since between them are Gauls and Iberians they are rather fierce in combat.


- Dorkim Numidim (heavy)



This units is the famous imitation legionaries type.
In the case of Numidia their imitation legionaries were the result of long contact with Rome.
In 213 B.C. the romans send military advisers to Syphax with the mission to help in the training of is soldiers.
Later Masinissa become a ally of Rome and received also advisers that help him train is troops.
Also during the time of Jugurtha and in the War in Sallust appear several references to roman desertors and probably they trained the troops of Jugurtha in the roman way of warfare.
Much is unknown about them, but we do know that in some cases these troops were trained by Rome directly and in others it was a close attempt to copy them. The best known example is that of Tacfarinas, who used his imitation legionaries to wage a rebellion against the Emperor Tiberius in AD 17-AD 24.
In conclusion the imitation legionaries are an interesting example of both the Roman state’s arrogance in believing that everyone wanted to copy it and its army and the Roman people’s own ability to be able to successfully catch the changing tide of war. Both Rome and the Hellenistic states saw the decline of the Makedonian system, but only Rome fully grasped it and destroyed the heirs of Alexander.
Note: only available in Cirta and Hippo Regius

- Dorkim Gaetulim



The Gaetuli was the Romanised name of a Berber tribal group inhabiting present-day southern Algeria.
The Gaetuli appear to be a confederation of certain tribes, towns or areas that united under a common goal.
These troops are very familiar with the desert and are very resistent.
At the time of the Jugurthine war they occupy the area south of Cirta and probably the Aurès Mountains.
We first hear of this people in the Jugurthine War (111-106 B.C.), when, as Sallust tells us, they did not even know the name of Rome. They took part with Jugurtha against Rome; but when we next hear of them they are in alliance with Caesar against Juba I (Bell. Afr. 32).
The Gaetuli enter in the conflict of the Jugurthine war after the defeat of Jugurtha at Thala. Thus he fled to one of the Gaetuli Tribes to raise new troops and teaching them to fight in a orderly fashion (Bellum Jugurtha 80,2). This unit is inspired in that moment.
However from the sources the Gaetulian soldiers appear to be loyal only to Jugurtha. Gaetulian soldiers fought agains Sulla on the side of Marius in 87 B.C. In 82 B.C. Iarbas the rival of Hiempsal II appears to be a Gaetulian. In the civil war they supported Caesar agains Scipio and Juba. So this unit could be only recruted in the lands of Gaetulia and Cirta. However they will have a great chance of become Eleutheroi or enter in rebellion against the Numidian ruler. So if you intend to use this warriors you better have a excellent general or you could found that you are simply wasting your precious denarii...
Note: only available in the towns of Cirta and Tuat

- Maurae Cavalry (Mauretanian Cavalry)



Maure cavalry are fast moving troops used by the Numidian and Berber chieftains. They are recruited from the most Western provinces of North Africa. A land known by their warriors and their unique fighting style. They are armed with javelins and a sword of North African origin, similar to the Takouba used these days by the Tuareg people. The Maures are protected by a shield made of elephant hide and by a tunic made of animal fur that they use like it was a breastplate.
They should avoid being sucked into hand-to-hand combat, as they do better in the job of harassing the enemy with their javelins. Their tactics are to pelt the enemy with deadly volleys of javelins, and then swiftly retreat when charged.
Historically, Maures were very similar to their Numidian neighbors. Greek and Roman historians say they were darker than other North African tribes, to the point to be called “Western Ethiopians”. They were also great warriors and were one of the troops mentioned by Hannibal in his inscription left in Italy.They were also the prefered auxiliary cavalry of the emperor Tiberius.

-Gaetuli Cavalry



The Gaetuli was the Romanised name of a Berber tribal group inhabiting present-day southern Algeria.
The Gaetuli appear to be a confederation of certain tribes, towns or areas that united under a common goal.
These troops are very familiar with the desert and are very resistent.
At the time of the Jugurthine war they occupy the area south of Cirta and probably the Aurès Mountains.
We first hear of this people in the Jugurthine War (111-106 B.C.), when, as Sallust tells us, they did not even know the name of Rome. They took part with Jugurtha against Rome; but when we next hear of them they are in alliance with Caesar against Juba I (Bell. Afr. 32). This is the Gaetuli cavalry unit. These warriors possess great resistence and are very skilled in desert warfare.
Credits

Research leader: Lionheart
Unit creator: LDC
Card creator: Finn
Others: I would like to say thank's to all members in EB: Novus Ordo Mundi for their advises and help.
Also i would like to say thank's to the EB team that make this great mod.

Special Thanks
To the creators in charge of RTR for providing the inspiration to our units.
And a special thanks to Caius Britannicus, Publius, and LACa

[anubis88]

You should try posting everything in one post ;)

[Lionheart]

The preview is done! Now let's see your opinions.

[Iain.]

Nice preview, I've wanted to play as Numidia in an EB style mod for a long time.