Capo de Tutti Capi - IV [Thoughts and Recommendations]

[TinCow]

I really think that I need about 25 people per family, so I'll probably not cap the playing numbers and hope for 125 plus.

That's.... a big number. With any group that large, there are likely to be a significant number of WOGs. Might want to take that into account in the balancing.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

That's.... a big number. With any group that large, there are likely to be a significant number of WOGs. Might want to take that into account in the balancing.

I do. I was going with a 1 family per 15 in the original capo -- didn't fly smoothly enough to suit me.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I do. I was going with a 1 family per 15 in the original capo -- didn't fly smoothly enough to suit me.

I tend to agree with Tincow... but it depends on what you're doing and how strong the families are and how many people start in the family.

I might lean towards 20 per family as a starting point.

[Kagemusha]

Well maybe you could have a FBI task force as one of the factions, kind of a pro town faction that could recruit townies and wiseguys, just like mafia factions could.

[johnhughthom]

Well maybe you could have a FBI task force as one of the factions, kind of a pro town faction that could recruit townies and wiseguys, just like mafia factions could.

Kage, you're a genius. That would have been awesome last time out.

[Secura]

I'll probably not cap the playing numbers and hope for 125 plus.

I've never seen a game reach fifty signups yet in the last six months of being here, so 125 seems like a bit of a stretch.

Do we even have that many people active in the Gameroom? Could one person really handle the administrative aspects of a game with that sort of magnitude? o_O'

[johnhughthom]

There were 76 players last time out, we have had the CFC invasion since then and TWC has had a recent revival so we could get some from there. 125 might not be as far-fetched as it sounds.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Yeah, I think it was amazing that we managed to hit 80. 76 :p

[TinCow]

I've never seen a game reach fifty signups yet in the last six months of being here, so 125 seems like a bit of a stretch.

Do we even have that many people active in the Gameroom? Could one person really handle the administrative aspects of a game with that sort of magnitude? o_O'

The Capo games bring out people who don't normally play in the Gameroom. 70 to 80 players is likely. 125 is something of a staggering goal, but if any game can do it Capo can.

[Secura]

The Capo games bring out people who don't normally play in the Gameroom.

It would be nice if just a handful of those played here more often, because then we wouldn't have a case where hosts are having to cut roles out or heavily amend as a result; Noblesse Oblige and Beefdom Will Rise Once More! come to mind when I think of this. That's not counting all the people who sign up and then don't play at all or sign up but post once in a blue moon, no names required.

Sorry for being sceptical. :/

[Subotan]

It would be nice if just a handful of those played here more often, because then we wouldn't have a case where hosts are having to cut roles out or heavily amend as a result; Noblesse Oblige, Beefdom Will Rise Once More! and A Bridge Zhou Far I come to mind when I think of this. That's not counting all the people who sign up and then don't play at all or sign up but post once in a blue moon, no names required.

Sorry for being sceptical. :/

Your point was just so good, I had to post it again.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Basically I would do a big huge recruitment drive over at TWC and CFC. I have some influence there and lots of CFC friends who could help spread the word that this game is awesome.

I could pretty much guarantee at least 10 new players, or my name isn't Askthepizzaguy.

These would all be experienced mafia players too.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Reenk is right in that (if the town still exists in the game, ie we're not going with Tincow's idea) the townie network is important. However, it's important that their success is based on their actions - who they attack or defend - and detecting mafia without simply using the process of deduction by determining who was doing night actions and who wasn't. Having the mafia able to do a second night action, killing a target, if sponsored by their don would stop this.

CR

[Seamus Fermanagh]

One of the things I am happiest about with the Capo series is that it has done quite a bit to bring new players into the Gameroom.

Andres was drafted in game one, and we had Banquo and Louis playing -- Andres going on to become a GR stalwart.

In and around game two we got Elite Ferret, gibson, Glenn, Kukri, scottish ranger, TinCow and even Makanyane (wish she'd stayed).

Capo III brought in atheotes, CDF, Skooma, and Yaro...


100 is quite likely with a bit of effort and 150 is not impossible -- though 'pizza is correct that it would take a bit of marketing. Its actually one of the aspects of Capo I have a lot of fun with -- the number of combinations on nights 1-3 is a little staggering. Add in a little paranoid ambiguity and you have a recipe for some real fun!

[Reenk Roink]

The central problems include: preventing a townie group or mafia coalition or new family from forming so easiliy and completely (part of the fun of the game is working to build such, but it shouldn't happen too easily).

I think having the family affiliated townie will help to solve both these problems. These townies will pad the Mafia's numbers without a major addition (like an extra made), and will be able to progress to more powerful abilities, only after time and effort, while at the same time, having an easier time infiltrating the townie organizations and gaining an alibi, and thus the townie network will have to be more cautious about who to accept and more discerning about alibis.

[Double A]

Basically I would do a big huge recruitment drive over at TWC and CFC. I have some influence there and lots of CFC friends who could help spread the word that this game is awesome.

I could pretty much guarantee at least 10 new players, or my name isn't Askthepizzaguy.

These would all be experienced mafia players too.

And I can bug everyone I know from GSTK and the TWC M2 section. Maybe some of them'll sign up.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Construction Ideas

Mafia Family Ratio will be 1 per 25 players (1 Town or 3rd party "family" possible)

I've swatted up a tentative matrix for all of the basic roles:

Basic idea is that each player has a group attack value, a personal defense value, a defend other value, and some have solo attack values. Still need 2 or more to group to attack if mafia, 3 or more for neutrals and town. Values added and compared with defense values to generate results (matrix largely replicates the "normal" results).

Also listed is the players base value if investigated by a criminal or by a lawman. I'm planning on players having a base value which is permanently adjusted based on role change or certain reactions within a role and temporarily adjusted each night to reflect activity. i.e., if you are laying low, you will not appear to be guilty, only unclear.

Detectives will end up with a bit faster promotion track, townies to Made a touch slower, others about the same.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I think having the family affiliated townie will help to solve both these problems. These townies will pad the Mafia's numbers without a major addition (like an extra made), and will be able to progress to more powerful abilities, only after time and effort, while at the same time, having an easier time infiltrating the townie organizations and gaining an alibi, and thus the townie network will have to be more cautious about who to accept and more discerning about alibis.

interesting....<>

[TinCow]

Basic idea is that each player has a group attack value, a personal defense value, a defend other value, and some have solo attack values. Still need 2 or more to group to attack if mafia, 3 or more for neutrals and town. Values added and compared with defense values to generate results (matrix largely replicates the "normal" results).

I can't quite tell based on the description, but if this means that people have a chance of killing with insufficient numbers or surviving a successful hit by pure luck (without protection of some kind, be it a doctor or a personal ability), I'd like to discourage it. Such luck based systems do provide extra chaos and make things unexpected, but they can also totally ruin good strategy, which is the heart of mafia IMHO.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Could one of our fine mods adjust the title of the thread to include "(thoughts & recommendations)?" I don't want confusion of titles later.

[ULC]

I LOVED Capo as the dual personality vixen in Capo III (loved making my mark by offing a Director :D, and sealing a town win). However, ever since then, I've been thinking on that.

Now, understandably, I'm usually way out on one wing of creativity, but I honestly liked the idea of being a "dark townie" - someone who is not entirely town, but is indeed pro-town. What if we had developing third parties, just like we have developing townie and mafia parties? Allow people the ability to slip down that slope as they help the town, allow the character to dance with the darkside but pay the price.

They could be rather powerful roles, but are countered by their slow descent into madness, blinded by their rage and need for vengeance, etc, that drags them further and further from being a townie and into being an SK.

On another thought, I've also loved the idea of repentance. A truly sorry role, or one that realizes the monstrous actions they allow. Again, should be a developing role.

I also like the idea that is rife through Capo - choice, moral or otherwise. When I was a SK though, I had no choice, and I felt kind of broken off from the rest of Capo. Having my SK tendencies develop based upon my actions and the results would be fantastic.

Also, I understand that third parties are usually just that, total neutral and usually just roadblocks to others objectives, but in my mind, a third party shouldn't be restricted to simply that - in a sense they should be hard fought for objectives, kind of like a powerful tool for whichever side is able to get them.

Maybe that is reducing SKs/Neutrals to townie status, but to me it's not - it's removing them from speedbump interesting diversion status to a possible ally or enemy, while enriching the story of Capo.

Sorry for the rant, I'll get something more constructive up later.

[Kagemusha]

There were 76 players last time out, we have had the CFC invasion since then and TWC has had a recent revival so we could get some from there. 125 might not be as far-fetched as it sounds.

I hope this is not sarcasm.I am painfully aware that last time there were two FBI detectives, but what im talking about would be a FBI faction that could recruit wiseguys as snitches and try and infiltrate and destroy mafia families from within, with ofcourse the risk of mafia counter infiltration. I think this would add another layer of paranoia in the game.

[johnhughthom]

I think you quoted the wrong post there Kage...

It wasn't sarcasm, we actually had three FBI last time (I should know, I was one of them) and being able to recruit wiseguys as snitches like you say would have been great.

[Kagemusha]

I think you quoted the wrong post there Kage...

It wasn't sarcasm, we actually had three FBI last time (I should know, I was one of them) and being able to recruit wiseguys as snitches like you say would have been great.

Gah! Well what ever i was blabbering about.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I would like to offer some more thoughts and recommendations, but I think by now you have a general idea of what you want to go for.

If you would like to hear more of the same kind of balancing ideas or whatever that I offered right after Capo III ended, let me know Seamus and I'll PM you. Otherwise I think you should already have plenty of ideas here to work from...

[pevergreen]

I want a return of the great serial killer from CDTC. I loved seeing the old Greek guy just killing people.

The car that took out a diner full of wog victims?

Maybe a return to the original, while updating it (ala Creative Assembly)

I think you and Sasaki know what I mean...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

lots of time before this comes to fruition. Please feel free with more thoughts and ideas -- though yes, pizza, i have quite a few from you already if you are busy elsewhere.

YLC -- nice thoughts about SK. It is true that the compulsion SKs have little "choice" even though choice is a Capo hallmark. I hoped to make them compelling with other elements.

[ULC]

They could be rather powerful roles, but are countered by their slow descent into madness, blinded by their rage and need for vengeance, etc, that drags them further and further from being a townie and into being an SK.

Just thought about this - what if someone could slip into serial killerdom by having those they worked with die? Like, factor in the number of times they have worked for an individual, and as people die they have worked with, once they reach a threshold, they become a serial killer bent on mass vengeance. Thoughts?

[Double A]

I think this game should have a pirate theme!

[Khazaar]

I think this game should have no town, instead Mafia vs. Mafia vs. Undercover FBI/Cops. One of the great themes of Mafiamovies is the paranoia/distrust that each member feels, it´s not for the faint of heart to be a gangster. You constantly have to watch your back, is my partner snitching on me, does my boss think I´m disloyal, are my henchmen trying to off me to get my position?
Also the players in the families would be known others would be known as unafiliated, what would be unknown is who has what sort of protection...

So maybe the different families + unafiliated. Everyone can (potentially) start as loyal, cop, snitch (to another family or the cops) or independent/recruitable. To make this more attractive some sort of cash (or other incentive, promotion, immunity, out etc.) could be available, either to pay your minions to keep them loyal, to recruit new member or to bribe others.

As I read this I notice that that´s probably too far away from the original gameconcept of Capo, but I´ll leave it here as brainstorming...