Heroes

[DaVinci]

I mean the heroes described in the previews as fantasy units which can hold vs. a whole army.

Who wants this ?
Not me.
(I know such total fantasy is popular in the asian lands though).

Would be nice if CA can make it possible to have those fantasy contents optionally.
However, those units, if the game is properly moddable, will be the first thing what i'll change.

How are the opinions here about those heroes?

[Double A]

From what I gathered, they act like Spartan hoplites: able to hold a bridge against anything, but surrounded they're boned. And unlike Spartans, they don't stand up to arrows like Godzilla stands up to tank shells.

[A Nerd]

I like the idea of heroes. I hope the arise similar to the swordsman event in the original STW. Or perhaps as a man of the hour event in RTW and M2TW but instead of a general he can be of a samurai in a specific foot unit, never ashigaru! I hope they are not spawned like diplomatic pieces in ETW and NTW! :P Also, not too many per campaign, you woulnd't want an entire army made up of heroes! It might be fun to use them in combat and level them up accordingly. Like stated in the above, non immortal pieces that must be used carefully in case they might die. Hopefully they are vulnerable to fatigue, weather and on a lesser extent, morale, this, and with what has been learned from press write-ups might make the hero unit not as frown worthy as the kensai of STW. I always liked the kensai though. Except for the fact that he was 3 times larger than the rest of the samurai!

[Double A]

Yeah, it seems like Heroes would be extremely rare and valuable, like a First Rate in the time ETW took place (but not in ETW )

[Tsar Alexsandr]

I heard the hero characters are attached to a unit. So now it's like a famous samurai and his elite troops. (Yoshitsune Minamoto and his small but elite cavalrymen. :D)

So it'll be better than the old Kensai. They're also supposed to be authentic people this time. :D Mushashi Miyamoto, Tadakatsu Honda, Inei Hozoin, Masamune Date, Yukimura Sanada... guys like this I'm thinking.... XD

I'm still not fond of super units, but I'll wait to I see how it's implemented I think. If my army is routed just because a hero was in the enemy army though..... I won't be happy. XD

[G. Septimus]

I mean the heroes described in the previews as fantasy units which can hold vs. a whole army.

Who wants this ?
Not me.
(I know such total fantasy is popular in the asian lands though).

Would be nice if CA can make it possible to have those fantasy contents optionally.
However, those units, if the game is properly moddable, will be the first thing what i'll change.

How are the opinions here about those heroes?

no no no...
Samurais oftenly fight with their army (except Mushashi Miyamoto, he's a lone warrior) so adding people like that being heroes is somewhat, pointless

[pevergreen]

I heard the hero characters are attached to a unit. So now it's like a famous samurai and his elite troops. (Yoshitsune Minamoto and his small but elite cavalrymen. :D)

CA copying off another game? (King Arthur: The Roleplaying Wargame)

I don't know what to make of them. Will have to wait.

[quadalpha]

I remember not being able to find my sword saint in a melee.

(Hi pever.)

[A Nerd]

Perhaps a small band of bodyguardlike followers would be good for hero units. They could also perhaps be uniquely decorated with striking armor and the like such that they are more easily recognizable on the battlefield.

[andrewt]

Clearly, you guys have forgotten what it was like to fight a 7-9 star Byzantine general in MTW1.

[quadalpha]

Clearly, you guys have forgotten what it was like to fight a 7-9 star Byzantine general in MTW1.

Oh, God. I used to make a point of bribing/assassinating generals just so I don't have to pack enough men around them so they don't run away.

[A Nerd]

Clearly, you guys have forgotten what it was like to fight a 7-9 star Byzantine general in MTW1.

Ha ha, that and some varangians in his army too! Seriously, if vulnerable to flanking and arrow fire (unlike kensai) it might not be such a immortal unit. I don't know about armor upgrades and the like and what they will do to his defense bonuses though. Armor didn't seem to make a great difference when guns, arrows and crossbow bolts were fired upon bodyguard units in
M2TW. Though I do remember a battle where my arquebus got two volleys off on a mongol general and failed to kill one of them! M2TW might not be the best example however.

[DisruptorX]

Clearly, you guys have forgotten what it was like to fight a 7-9 star Byzantine general in MTW1.

My thoughts as soon as I heard the complaining start.

[Tsar Alexsandr]

Clearly, you guys have forgotten what it was like to fight a 7-9 star Byzantine general in MTW1.

Lol. Oh yeah.... That was bad. Those guys were invincible! XD As Russia my Boyar were not quite a match for those guys. Byzantine generals, kings, and heroes were a nightmare to fight. XD

[KLAssurbanipal]

I don't like this idea. Total War are startegy series, not RPG.

[antisocialmunky]

Ninja all of them yourself then. -_-'

I wonder if they will be attach/detatch or just a special unit?

[Barkhorn1x]

I don't like this idea. Total War are startegy series, not RPG.

I disagree. Some RPG elements add immersion and foster attachment to the characters. I think that if heroes are used sparingly and are not too uber then their addition will add a bit more spice to the procedings.

Heck, the most hard core WWII boardgame - Advanced Squad Leader - had hero generation under certain circumstances. Heroes are cool - AND fun.

[pevergreen]

Depends how deep the RPG goes.

You could argue that V&V are already RPG. Or you could go and draw the line and say stuff that deviates too far from the hardcore RPG genre is not RPG...

Say the hero units in Warcraft 3. RPG element in an RTS or not?

[Tsar Alexsandr]

Those invincible Kataphraktoi generals were tough. XD You had to shoot from the front, right, left, and behind. XD And then maybe send in some infantry. Allow a hour or so and you get 1 dead Byzantine Emperor. XD

But the Sengoku is an appropriate age for heroes. Musashi Miyamoto, Tadakatsu Honda, Murashige Tachibana. Tough guys.... XD As long as they're not like the old kata-tanks or the Kensai from STW 1 then we should be okay.....

I know this could go horribly wrong..... but there were a lot of famous heroes in the Sengoku. XD And maybe it'll be okay?

Well we'll have to see when it comes out.

[andrewt]

Yeah, the old Byzantine jedis were really tough. I generally surrounded them with spears and sometimes had my archers just fire on them, even sacrificing some of my troops as well. Then I'd crank up the speed really high until they die. Hopefully, STW2's heroes won't be that insane.

[quadalpha]

Depends how deep the RPG goes.

You could argue that V&V are already RPG. Or you could go and draw the line and say stuff that deviates too far from the hardcore RPG genre is not RPG...

Say the hero units in Warcraft 3. RPG element in an RTS or not?

Any word on a return of the family tree?

[Barkhorn1x]

Any word on a return of the family tree?

Did Shogun have a family tree? I really cannot recall.

[Tsar Alexsandr]

Shogun did not have a family tree. But it did inform you of the princes ages. (As for recording who their mother, brother, or cousins, etc.... it didn't do that.)

[DaVinci]

I referred to this article http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/109/1093664p1.html, which gives a good roundup of the upcoming S2TW, and i like it.

I have sceptic thoughts about the last paragraph of the 1st page about the heroes:

One particularly novel development is the introduction of hero units. These are warriors who have perfected a fighting art and can carve their way through enemy armies without much trouble at all. Based on mythologized historical figures like the warrior monk Benkei, hero units are a nearly unstoppable force on the battlefield, capable of holding bridge crossings against entire armies, or smashing through a battle line to engage the enemy general. You can counter heroes with the right tactics, such as filling them full of arrows, or by having your own hero units engage them in duels. The development team may even consider letting players use political manipulation to sway heroes away from each other.

Ie. the bold part, it'll offer clearly that the player (in SP) can exploit the AI a lot (for MP this is a complete other case).
While i like strong unique warrior (-units) of course, and it is also pretty realistic - but in this article this part sounds like a martial arts / fantasy movie content, and i hope S2TW won't be a satisfaction-game for the asian market, where exactly this is a common gameplay, just by concept a heroes game.
Naturally the player will focus on such units, and how will the AI compete with that? ... i'm tensed how CA will present/provide such contents.

[quadalpha]

I referred to this article http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/109/1093664p1.html, which gives a good roundup of the upcoming S2TW, and i like it.

I have sceptic thoughts about the last paragraph of the 1st page about the heroes:


Ie. the bold part, it'll offer clearly that the player (in SP) can exploit the AI a lot (for MP this is a complete other case).
While i like strong unique warrior (-units) of course, and it is also pretty realistic - but in this article this part sounds like a martial arts / fantasy movie content, and i hope S2TW won't be a satisfaction-game for the asian market, where exactly this is a common gameplay, just by concept a heroes game.
Naturally the player will focus on such units, and how will the AI compete with that? ... i'm tensed how CA will present/provide such contents.

I put that down to the hackneyed style of games journalists.

[A Nerd]

I like to think with all the complaints over the years about overpowered generals and the unrealisticness of kensai and the like that CA wouldn't make the same mistake in this 'going back to it's roots' STW2 game. I could be wrong though.

[Tsar Alexsandr]

Well they're certainly going to be more powerful... but just how much matters. Cause a little is reasonable, and in the past they have made super humans.... (Sigh.) XD

Katatanks, and Jedi, and Kensai. My bro one time fought historic Nur Al-Din in MTW 1 and had to fight him across the entire battlefield. He wasn't even cavalry, he was just a spear unit guy. XD

[pevergreen]

I'd wait for official word on this one, really.

quadalpha: I remember your name but thats pretty much it.

I've got the same level of info as everyone else at this stage. Hopefully they do another live Q&A, guess I'd take up that responsibility again.

[Nelson]

A hero would be powerful enough for me if I could just add him to a unit and thus increase that unit’s experience one level.

[Barkhorn1x]

A hero would be powerful enough for me if I could just add him to a unit and thus increase that unit’s experience one level.

C'mon man - that approach is for wimps.

I want:
- Hero unit to consist of ONE man - the HERO
- His mere presence on the battlefield will force peasants to route, samurai to quake and warrior monks to burn incense
- His sword should be LOOOONG and his B@lls HUGE

In short, give me UBER or don’t even bother.

;)