Vassals & Valour: Redux - Rules Finalization and Sign-ups

[phonicsmonkey]

another reason to have all factions set as playable and the game set up in hotseat mode..even if we decided not to do this now, it would give us the option to change our minds later

[flyd]

I can't fully commit to this right now, so no character for me. But I do plan on following it, as I am very much interested to see if decentralization (aka the holy grail) will work smoothly, especially as the empire expands.

I do have a few questions for Cecil.

First, how do you plan on keeping players within their budget. If someone queues up a building more expensive than they can afford by mistake, will you cancel it before you end the turn?

Relatedly, how will you handle bankruptcy? If a player's personal budget hits zero, but they still have a large army, will you start disbanding troops? Will you immediately disband everything, or will some troops stay in service for promise of future payment? (Also, will you make players pay back IOUs to the troops once they have money?)

How will you handle merged armies? I assume you'll want to keep track of individual units. Should players be required to declare when they merge their armies and create an official list of who owns what inside the stack? Merging depleted units might also have to be a formal, public process, since it rearrange the stack and might require various transfers of ownership.

And my final question is a general one, since I don't remember following the original V&V very closely: How the hell do you intend to keep track of all this? Is there are spreadsheet involved? How will your turn-ly financial reports look like?

[phonicsmonkey]

hey Cecil sorry to be such a n00b but I dl'd the mod and loaded the test save and I can't see Leopold in there anywhere - in fact there are only three family members whose names do not match up to those you mentioned in your post..did I do something wrong or have I somehow picked a character that doesn't have an in-game avatar yet or something? (I picked based on your post while I was away and couldn't load up the save)

EDIT: Wait am I the guy who is called Lorenz in this save?

[barcamartin]

I'm gonna go with "Otto von Kassel, the Duke of Bavaria", or Philippe as his name is in-game. (?)

GMT+1 (+2 with DST)

[_Tristan_]

I'll be Magnus of Saxony, Duke of Saxony

GMT + 1 (+ 2 DST)

[Cecil XIX]

In retrospect, I should have known that the confusion surrounding names should have been dealt with in the beginning. Here, try this this file. This is my version of "landstoconquer/data/descr_names.txt". This should display names correctly. Everyone having problems with getting the names to display correctly should overwrite their own version of this file with the one I've provided here, and that should solve the problems.

Ignoramus, while I like the idea of having player's cardinals give them influence over the papacy, I think having defacto control over the papcy itself goes too far. I was thinking though that the players who control cardinals would be the ones who decide which pope to vote for.

flyd, thanks for your interest. I've decided to follow the games lead on debt issues, at least somewhat. Players cannot recruit units/agents/fleets and cannot construct buildings unless they have the money upfront. This is stated in the beginning of Rule 3.3. The only penalty for players who go into bankruptcy is that they will not be able to recruit or construct. I think that will be enough of a deterrant, but if experience proves otherwise we can change the rules to something more stringent. I'm also glad you brought up merging armies, this is something I should have adressesed specifically in the rules. I don't think it's as complicated as it seems, but a detailed explanation is warranted and I'll post one later. As for your final question, you can see how it worked last time here. Keep in mind I've going to combine income from cities into one column rather than list them sepearately, since that would inevitably get too cumbersome.

[_Tristan_]

Cecil, is it by design or oversight that the game hasn't been set up on "huge" unit scale ? I thought it would be more interesting if it was... It would make BGs less powerful because their number of men would remain the same while any other unit would gain a 25% boost to its numbers...

[GeneralHankerchief]

Thanks for the opportunity Cecil: I've spent a lot of time thinking about this, and I think I'm ready to drag the old man out of mothballs once more to give him another run.

GMT -5, I believe -4 with DST. US East Coast.

[Cecil XIX]

Cecil, is it by design or oversight that the game hasn't been set up on "huge" unit scale ? I thought it would be more interesting if it was... It would make BGs less powerful because their number of men would remain the same while any other unit would gain a 25% boost to its numbers...

The save that was offered to let people view the starting situation is just for that, it will not be used for the actual game. Traditionally these games have used "Large" unit sizes, but if there's no objections I'd be fine with setting it to "Huge". What with the ever-increasing power of computers, that should be less of a problem now anyway.

Also, you're quite welcome GH, I'm a sentimentalist so I couldn't resist offering him to you. That means there's going to be a ninth general, and here he is:



Remember, whoever picks him can also pick which of the three remaining provinces he starts with.

[_Tristan_]

Either large or huge would suit me...

I gather the last two provinces will belong to the Emperor ??

[_Tristan_]

Oh and btw I've playtested in my own campaign with Sicily the possibility of choosing the Heir by removing the Factionheir trait from the ingame-chosen Heir and giving it to another FM of my own choosing... It didn't work... So we may still see Methodios-Ioannis sparing contest between the natural heir and the ingame-chosen one...

So I guess unless someone can find a way around this, we're stuck with the sometimes nonsensical choices of the AI...

[Zim]

Somes pics of the other three available characters (I left out Magnus, since I wasn't sure about his status).

Andreas Hummel, Lord of Flanders, renowned center of cloth.



Vaclav Premyslid, ruler of Prague and more importantly possessor of what is perhaps the coolest name to ever appear in any of these games.



Ortwinus Raspe, master of Tirol and those ever neutral Swiss.

[Ferret]

I'll take Ortwinus Raspe then please, seeing as my beloved Saxony has been stolen by someone who was supposed to be at the back of the line

GMT

[_Tristan_]

I'll give you some Saxon back of the line

PS : I'll take somebody else if I truly chose out of turn, ofc

[Cecil XIX]

Thanks Zim. Looking at the starting situation, I'm going to give Vaclav all the merecenaires in Bohemia for free so he doesn't get effortlessly bumrushed. Henry will get a similar deal, and someone else probably will too depending on what province gets picked.

Tristan, while you are at the back of the line, there's nothing stotpping you from saying what character you'd like. Just as there's nothing to stop Elite Ferret from ignoring you.

[_Tristan_]

So being on holiday and checking the thread from my phone a tad late, gets me what ? Back of the line !!

[Ferret]

Don't worry Tristan, I'll let you have him, wouldn't want to upset my favourite king of France would I?

[TheFlax]

I'll take Vaclav.

[Ignoramus]

Thanks guys for letting me have Hummel.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Cecil: Will there be a Diet session before things start or are we plunging straight into the civil war?

[TheFlax]

Thanks guys for letting me have Hummel.

I've heard great things.

[Ignoramus]

I've heard great things.

I won't disappoint.

Guys, I seriously recommend reading through the old KotR and LotR threads. They've provided some of the best reading I've had in a long time.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Cecil, I'm GMT -5, not +5. Also, in case you missed it:

Will there be a Diet session before things start or are we plunging straight into the civil war?

[TheFlax]

GMT -5 likewise.

[The Celtic Viking]

If I've understood things right, Michel von Bavaria is free - so I'll take him, if I may. GMT +2.

[Zim]

Is that a character in Cecil's save?

[Cecil XIX]

Cecil: Will there be a Diet session before things start or are we plunging straight into the civil war?

I wasn't planning on it, but if people have something to say, then sure.

The Celtic Viking, I don't think you have the right names file. Download this into the landstoconquer/data folder, and overwrite the existing file. This will fix the names problem. You'll be able to tell if the names are being displayed correctly because you'll see Vaclav Premyslid in Prague. As for characters, you have two choices. First, you can have Magnus von Saxony, whom you'll find in Hamburg. The second is this man:



If you choose him, you can choose to own either Magdeburg, Bern or Marseilles.

[Lord of Lent]

First of all, Cecil, thanks for the invitation. It was very sad to see VI die, but I'm sure this one will last longer!

Give me a week to think about it, if you still have room for more players...

EDIT: Sorry for the late response, I was on a holiday...

[The Celtic Viking]

Ah, yes, I forgot the names file. Thank you.

Now, Theodericus, I choose you! And Magdeburg is the province I'd like to have. Still GMT +2.

Edit: btw, so we're clear: my case is, like Barcaman's, GMT +1 without DST.

[Cecil XIX]

All right, I'm trying to create the initial save file, but I'm having a problem. I'm trying to create a hotseat game for it, but when I look at PK's guide I get to the part where it saves "start a hotseat game like norma", and I don't know how to do that. We've got quite a few hotseat players here, can anyone help me? I'll be starting the main game threads here as soon as some admin stuff is taken care of.