M2TW 1.3 Hotseat - Glorious Achievements (Completed, winner Silvershield)

[SilverShield]

just droped by next time please pm me

france next
http://depositfiles.com/files/11hcintgg

[_Tristan_]

Will get to this before the deadline

[_Tristan_]

New Save for England

[Visor]

I won't be here from the 15th to the 20th, so if someone besides England could sub me, it would be appreciated.

[barcamartin]

HRE !!

And don't worry Visor, I won't sub you. Also, Britannia isn't big enough for both of us. ;)

[TriforceV]

Spain is up!:

Spain

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Sicily

http://www.mediafire.com/file/c9gs3v...A-3-Sicily.sav

[Zim]

Milan is up

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local...id=201&id=5279

[phonicsmonkey]

Scotland

[_Tristan_]

Visorslash asked me to sub him... But didn't leave his PW with me... Anything you can do, Phonics ?

[phonicsmonkey]

Visorslash asked me to sub him... But didn't leave his PW with me... Anything you can do, Phonics ?

It would take me several days as I don't have internet at home and am relyong on my work pc to dwnload and upload saves. Could you pls pm zim and ask him to help out? He has the admin pw. I'd do it myself but it's really hard on this crappy blackberry browser

[barcamartin]

Rest assured, for a Swedish Viking never sleeps, nor fails!

Scotland turn, with reset password!

And Visorslash, I swear, I didn't even open the turn. ;)

[_Tristan_]

Subbed Scotland (but to no end as Visor seemed to have played his own turn... see below...)

(removed link...)

[_Tristan_]

PMed Password almost 3 days ago my time and still no answer...

Can someone sub him to keep the game going ? I would volunteer if need be as I have no interests whatsoever in the region...

[Visor]

I'm back and able to play my turns, please use my save as I did some important killing this turn. Can't hide from the Scottish Navy you English dog.

Also I would propose a rule used over at the twcenter which would make the game a bit fairer.

Say a Scottish army attacks and defeats an English army in Turn 2. On Turn 3 the english army can move. However, if an English army attacks and defeats a Scottish army on Turn 2, on Scotland's turn it cannot move and can't retreat.

The rule over at the TWC is this: 4. Armies that are defeated in battle by a player that comes after them in the turn list may not move the following turn. This is to make it fair for people who are defeated by players that come before them in the turn list, and thus lose all their movement points

5. Armies that are defeated in battle may not be attacked on the following turn, as they are banned from moving, either by the game mechanics or by the rule above. They must be allowed to move first, or must be reinforced. If the defeated army retreats to a settlement or fort, this rule does not apply. (This means they are allowed to be seiged, not that the army can move.)

(OC: Sorry but I attacked and won against an English navy containing a big army and if this rule is not in play, I'm screwed.)

Turks up.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/dgwk0s

[_Tristan_]

So Phonics or barca, could you have someone sub Password's turn or skip it just to keep things going ? It's been almost 4 days since the save has been posted (which delay sure helped Visorslash play his turn himself... but nonetheless...)

[phonicsmonkey]

hi all - apologies for being an absent GM these past couple of weeks, RL has been kicking my ass...

I have asked barca to skip this turn for me but if he is not available I'll be able to have the new save up in 24 hours. Unfortunately I have no internet at home right now so I'm relying on taking saves to and from work on a USB key.

Visorslash, thanks for the rule suggestion. I see the logic in it and I think it has merit however I'm not the dictatorial type so I'm going to put it to the vote.

Everyone, could you please post here to indicate whether you are in favour of adding the rule? I have amended it slightly to make it fairer on the player who has to keep track of which armies and navies are affected.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Armies or navies that are defeated in battle by a player that comes after them in the turn list may not move the following turn. The player who defeats the army or navy in question must alert the defeated player by private message so that they are able to identify which armies and navies they are not allowed to move. If a pm is not sent the rule does not apply.

I have to say I'm not sure that the rule you mark as 5 is necessary but again, let's hear what people think.

[Quirl]

Sounds like a good rule. I'll vote "yes."

[Kavhan Isbul]

Against.

[Visor]

The no 5 rule is used so that a defeated army has a chance to escape before it is attacked again.

Also, Kahvan Isbul, why are you against it.

(I'm for it, obviously.)

[_Tristan_]

I don't care either way : it is something to work with during the planning of your attacks. In hotseat, those have to be decisive (more than they would against the AI) and you should also prepare for any contingencies, ie don't leave units in position to be defeated.

But it would simplify matters not to have this to take into account and as the last in line, I'll be the one to profit the most from such rules , should you all gang up on me

[barcamartin]

Haha, geez, I really am screwing this hotseat up badly. xD

I would say that introducing that rule now would be slightly unfair, but since I am clearly biased in the matter, I will not vote at all. Had it been there from the start I would be definitely in favor, and I also realize that my faction benefits most from the rule not being in play. Therefor, I would vote "no", since we've already played a few turns without it, but as I said, perhaps I'm having a hard time being objective.

My vote is blank. I will oblige to the decision of the rest of you.

Turkish turn skipped! I notcied some units or something moved along their set paths of movement after I clicked End Turn, if that matters I'll redo it.

Hassanids!!

[Kavhan Isbul]

Also, Kahvan Isbul, why are you against it.

(I'm for it, obviously.)

Because I think given the current situation introducing the rule will be more unfair than not introducing it.

From your point of view, the rule makes sense, and the argument for it is that it attempts to fix a game machanics issue, which creates a slight advantage to players whose turn precedes that of their enemies. I can associate with that as I am in a war with a player, whose turn is before mine. In fact, I am one of the last in the line of turns, so introducing the rule will obviously benefit me more than almost everyone else in the hotseat.

However, there are 2 sides to the story and I also had to look at it through barca's point of view. Here is what I am seeing happened:
1. Tristan played your turn. These things happen, nothing wrong here.
2. You took advantage of a delay by the player after you to play your turn yourself, with the benefit of improving on Tristan's results. That goes against the spirit of the "no reloads" rule - in effect it is the same as posting your turn, than deciding that you could have accomplished more and reposting it.
3. Still not satisfied with this, you want to gain a further advantage by making the defeat English army stting ducks so that you can not face retaltion and finish it off during your next turn.

The combination of the above seems to me to be much more unfair than the current mechanics problem. If you suggested the rule before we started the campaign, I would have voted yes and would not mind it in future hotseats. But given the current circumstances, I think you should win the war with England thanks to outplaying barca, and not through any tweaks in the rules to help your cause.

Does that make sense?

[Quirl]

Denmark!
http://www.mediafire.com/?zdn92a3lu9i4zdl

[Visor]

1. Tristan played your turn. These things happen, nothing wrong here.

No problems here.

2. You took advantage of a delay by the player after you to play your turn yourself, with the benefit of improving on Tristan's results. That goes against the spirit of the "no reloads" rule - in effect it is the same as posting your turn, than deciding that you could have accomplished more and reposting it.

If the next player hasn't played his turn, why can't I play and post mine? (That's the way it happens over at the TWC)

3. Still not satisfied with this, you want to gain a further advantage by making the defeat English army stting ducks so that you can not face retaltion and finish it off during your next turn.

That is why rule no 5 is in place to give defeated armies a chance to escape.

[phonicsmonkey]

2. You took advantage of a delay by the player after you to play your turn yourself, with the benefit of improving on Tristan's results. That goes against the spirit of the "no reloads" rule - in effect it is the same as posting your turn, than deciding that you could have accomplished more and reposting it.

Just to clarify my view on this: I think it's always preferable if the player whose turn it is plays the turn himself. So in cases where a sub has played a turn and there is a delay with the next turn I will allow it if the original player comes back, plays the turn himself and posts a new link. Exactly what happened here.

While I see Kahvan's point about the 'no reload' rule I think the benefits of having the player take his own turn outweigh that issue. So I make an exception for this situation.

However, if the next player in line had already picked up the sub's turn and played from that save then we would continue the game without making the next player replay his turn. So, if Password had posted a link having used Tristan's save it would have been tough luck for Visorslash.

Understood?

[Quirl]

J... So, if Password had posted a link having used Tristan's save it would have been tough luck for Visorslash.

Understood?

Where is my ally anyways? Hope he's not kaput already.

[Kavhan Isbul]

Hungary next:

http://www.mediafire.com/?nv1c3uv00dz90rc

[Thanatos Eclipse]

I don't really care one way or the other on the rule (since the chances of HRE or England attacking me within 20 turns is pretty slim), but I do have a few thoughts. If it is a question of game mechanics and a fairer play something probably should be done to fix it, although it's really sucky that the game does that. Really going to drag the game out longer if you don't destroy an army in the first attack.

If its a question of timing, but most think it is a rule that is needed, maybe it can be approved, but not go into effect for a few turns, like 3 or so.

Also, since AI aren't going to follow these rules, would it only apply to Humans?

[Visor]

Only applies to Humans.