Come on Franc! We are dying here!(Atleast Bohemians are).
Re: Dynasty
Come on Franc! We are dying here!(Atleast Bohemians are).
Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.
Re: Dynasty
RUHM und EHRE!!!!!!!!
Re: Dynasty
Great IH, Franconius! I'm disappointed I didn't stumble onto this earlier.
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"Oh, how I wish we could have just one Diet session where the Austrians didn't spend the entire time complaining about something." Fredericus von Hamburg
Re: Dynasty
Chapter 12
Ottokar called Milota, a young knight from Dědice: “Select 200 men and attack those enemies behind our lines. Try to get into their back and hurry.”
While Milota separated his men, Ottokar looked at the battle in front of him. Heinrich fought a unit that was about twice as big as his Silesian force. Heinrich’s men fought well and the leader himself led the attack against the center of the enemy. However, both flanks were bypassed and pushed back. Then a group of several hundred Kumans appeared in Heinrich’s back, so that the Silesians were completely encircled. Ottokar could not recognize what was going on in this crowd, he could not see Heinrich’s banner any longer.
He turned around and told his men to hurry. Milota was finally ready and the Iron King sent him away. Milota led his men northward to get behind Richard’s men, which were still slaughtering the exhausted retreaters. Then the Bohemian King raised his sword as a signal for the remaining Bohemian knights to join the final attack.
Finally trotting against the enemy, Ottokar saw that the knights of the first two waves had almost completely interrupted the fighting and watched the combat of the Silesian knights. Ottokar sent a prayer that those could stand until he was there. Then he saw some knights coming out of the crowd, more followed and when then suddenly Ottokar saw Heinrich’s banner. Heinrich was alive and succeeded to lead his men through the circle of enemies, or at least around 500 of them. The Silesians hurried north to get back behind the own lines, pressed hard by Richard’s knights and Ladislaus’ Kumans. Ottokar reached the rest of Ekkehardt’s and Wladislaw’s troops. He saw some men pointing backwards, crying something which he could not understand. But he saw that Wladislaw’s men were caught by horror and heedlessly running from the battlefield.
They were chased by Richard’s men, which found new courage and strength and which were crying loud. Suddenly Ottokar understood what they were shouting:
“The Bohemian knights are running away! The Bohemian King flees!”
He turns around, but all he sees is Milota with his men, riding northwards. For the others it had to look as if he, the king, was leaving with his guard.
For a moment Ottokar wondered if he should try to help Wladislaw’s men and make them turn around and fight again. Then he saw Heinrich and his men getting closer, pressed hard by superior Imperial forces. He had no choice; he gave the sign to attack. He still had 1,000 fresh Bohemian knights, enough to decide any battle.
Soon Ottokar’s men were passed by the Silesian knights. They had suffered more casualties and were still on the run. Even the appearance of their allies could not make them stop, especially as the pursuant Imperials also shouted that Ottokar’s army is on the flight.
Then Ottokar’s reserve hit the Imperial reserve, 1,000 heavy armored knights from Franconia and Swabia. It was a terrible sound when almost 2,000 crashed into each others. The full impact made many horses and their riders fall. Soon the battle turned into a series of duels between Bohemian knights and their enemies from Franconia and Swabia. All the while the Imperials kept on shouting: “Ottokar’s army is on the run” and in fact the Bohemians worried about what was going on in their back. Ottokar himself had to beat toward all sides to get enough space. He had no time to look what was going on around him. Yet he realized that his men were loosing ground and he also noticed that some of his men turned around to run away. He sent a knight from his guard back to bring him news from the rest of the battle field. When he returned he shouted through the noise of the battle: “Sire, Wladislaw and his men are running away, pressed by the Imperials. The Silesians are gone. Haven’t seen Milota, either. But there are Kumans gathering in our back, at least 1,000.”
The Iron King turned around and saw the approach of the Kumans. Hastily he ordered his guard to follow him and turned against this new enemy. More men followed and actually Ottoakr managed to break through the rows of the Kumans. However, when the other Bohemian knights saw the Kumans and the maneuver of their king, they also turned around and tried to find rescue in flight.
Ottokar’s whole army was now in dissolution. Nothing Ottokar could do could make them stop. The Bohemian king was carried away by the fleeing troops.
The Imperials pressed hard, especially the Kumans. With their light armors they were faster than the Bohemians and Ottokar saw many of his men fall from the saddle. The Kumans drive them to the river. Ottokar lashed his horse, but he heard the sound of converging hooves. He turned around to counter an attack, his horse made a false step. Ottokar fell on the ground and immediately twenty Kumans were over him.
And so the story ends. And the moral, my dear reader, is, that false ambitions will end in a inglorious way.
Last edited by Franconicus; 10-22-2010 at 14:30.
Re: Dynasty
As bitter is the defeat, Still i would like to say a word on behalf of the fallen Iron King. Morale is not that false ambitions will end in a inglorious way, but that the weight of one´s morale is at the tip of one´s sword.This time it was the kaiser´s sword that was stronger, not that his ambition was any more justified then the ambition of the fallen Iron King.
Thank you very much Franc for this wonderful journey!Is there any chance there will be some sort of debriefing or write up from your part?
Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.
Re: Dynasty
Why not. But first I want toknow your opinion.
How did you like this new type of interactive?
Did you like the speed?
Do you think the topic was well chosen?
Do you think the backround was historically correct?
Do you think the moderation was fair and the way the story went could have happened in real history?
Re: Dynasty
I think i loved every other aspect of it other then the rule of third decides. Maybe with 24-48 hour voting period we could have created more discussion and with that possibly better informed decisions.Originally Posted by Franconicus
Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.
Re: Dynasty
What a terrible defeat for us!
How did you like this new type of interactive?
Great! Even though I still got a soft spot for MP style IH's, I love playing in a fast paced IH like this.
Do you think the topic was well chosen?
Hmmm, I preferred more modern era, but this era was good though.
Do you think the background was historically correct?
Not a expert here on that particularly case, I guess it is.
Do you think the moderation was fair and the way the story went could have happened in real history?
Probably. You can never say for certain how something could have went differently in hindsight, but I guess it could have.
Re: Dynasty
Epilogue
A murder of crows hid the sun and wind brought the reek of rotting flesh. The moaning of the injured had replaced the roar of the battle and the once pride knights lied in the dust. People with knives walked around the bodies delivering a merciful blow to those who had no chance of survival and were robbing those who could no longer care. On the near hill a small group of knights were watching the sight. Few hours ago, they would have looked truly magnificently: large plumes on their helmets and glamorous armour that demonstrated their superiority. The man in the centre looked down at his injured hand and calmed his new horse. As he looked up, he noticed a small group of soldiers wearing a litter. He rode forward and his old body started aching. Once again his steeled will was stronger and he continued to ride proudly towards his destination. As the warriors saw him approaching, they put the litter on the ground and knelt. He was acclaimed as the victorious and just Emperor of the Romans and told that he is presented with a gift from King Ladislaus of Hungary. The Emperor looked down at the lifeless body of his adversary. The man who was formerly known as the Iron King of Bohemia had died in a terrible but short agony caused by the blades of the eastern mercenaries. His crossed hands were in scratches and some of his fingers were missing. His tunic was all red around his neck. The face had preserved his ruthlessness and majestic arrogance that carved his way to glory and that also led to his ultimate downfall. The hatred of his adversary was also destined to outlive him as it also left its mark on the lifeless piece of flesh that covered the skull. Ironically, the body of his fallen enemy would serve the victor in his rise to power.
“I thank your master,” Rudolf said and noticed how the eyes of the eastern warriors shined, ”My people will treat this gift with the proper respect ” He then turned to his newly promoted count Heinrich Walter von Ramschwag and instructed him to prepare the body. He would expose the traitor's corpse for joy of the crowds in Vienna. And the Habsburg Dynasty will continue to shine…
Wonderful IH, though I truly did not expect such an end. I will try to answer your questions the following days. Keep up with your enthusiasm. You do a great work.
This is slightly loosely based on history epilogue of the IH. Just a flow of thought.
Last edited by Prince Cobra; 10-26-2010 at 20:18. Reason: Edited, Franc!
R.I.P. Tosa...
Re: Dynasty
Sorry for double posting. It's time to fulfil my part of the deal.How did you like this new type of interactive?
Did you like the speed?
Do you think the topic was well chosen?
Do you think the backround was historically correct?
Do you think the moderation was fair and the way the story went could have happened in real history?
1) This type of IH is definately a good thing, especially if you are getting increasily preoccupied with real life issues and other projects. I would certainly continue to participate in such a less-time consuming gaming format (though I could be not very regular).
2) Hmm, it was slightly short for my taste. The problem is not really the chapters followed quickly one after another, the problem was that the IH ended too quickly. On the other hand, it is always better to have a completed IH, so the IH should fit the taste of the host. Not a big setback, though.
3) Middle Ages are always an interesting topic. I am not an expert on Western European chivalry but I think it was historically accurate. I will be happy if the next IH is again in the same epoch (more or less).
4) I am happy with your moderation.
-----
Btw, Franc, where do you think we did the fatal mistake? Was it in the last turn or before that?
Last edited by Prince Cobra; 10-24-2010 at 16:01.
R.I.P. Tosa...
Re: Dynasty
First, thank you for the flowers. I really enjoyed the game.
Prince Cobra, you are a much better writer than me, you should host the next IH!!
But you are historically incorrect: Rudolf brought the dead body to Vienna, where he was displayed 30 weeks long!
About wrong or right - how do you expect me to know? I just can give you my point of view.
First the historical facts. Ottokar had prepared the rebellion against Rudolf. He had made alliances with Polish dukes and appeased the church. He had a very strong army and thought he was ready to fight Rudolf, even though he knew that the Hungarians would help Habsburg. If Ottokar won this fight, he would have received the Austrian countries and maybe even become emperor. However, losing the campaign would mean losing his reign, maybe his life.
Ottokar had a very army of knights - peasants did not mean a lot. So his army was very mobile, but he had to deal with the drawbacks - knights had their own will and believes and were not very disciplined.
Ottokar had an advantage in numbers and he had the initiative, as he started the war and the campaign was near his own provinces.
Historically, Ottokar acted very slow and historians wonder why he did not attack Vienna when it was weakly defended. Instead he moved slowly and played around besieging some minor fortresses.
In real life, Rudolf gathered his knights from Austria and the rest of Germany at Vienna, while Ladislaus came from Hungary. Rudolf had the advantage of better recon with the Kumans. When he was ready and saw Ottokar hesitating, he made a very fast move to the March.
So far so good. You did exactly what Ottokar did. You waited. Of course you had a good reason to wait for Brandenburg, but it was probably wrong to stay at Prague, far away from Austria. News took far too long and you did not have a chance to intercept your enemies. When you finally decided to move, you tried to hide behind a river, still leaving initiative to Rudi. Fighting knights at rivers is the best choice if you have infantry. Here you have a surplus at knights. Furthermore, waiting was not good for moral and discipline. Your army was not a 20th century force, ready to wait in trenches for months. Knights want to fight!
Richard took the chance for a fast move - amazingly the story was still synchronal with history. He moved to the March field, united with Hungary and waited for you. And you came. Now Richard hold all the cards. He had chosen the battle field, he had prepared and he had had a good time to regenerate.
In history, Richard formed three groups with even numbers. First row, second row and reserve. Reserve was hidden behind a hill. Although all groups had the same number of knights, Rudolf left his best men in reserve.
Additionally, the Kumans covered his left flank. As a special trick, Rudolf left 60 knights hidden at your left flank.
I am not an expert in medieval warfare, but what I learned is, that heavy armed knights are a terrible weapon against infantry and unarmed riders. However, fighting against each other it could take long to really kill one. And they became quickly exhausted, especially if it was hot. In reality, most of the knights of the two first groups which died died from circulatory collapse.
Taking this in account, you should have left a stronger reserve. Another issue is, that you left Ottokar at the reserve. This had two drawbacks: First, he could not see what was going on and had little impact on the battle. This would have been even worse leaving him behind the camp. Second, it was disastrous for moral. After all this hesitation and avoiding the direct confrontation you still tried to save your skin. How could you expect those men fight for you? Wasn't it a dispute you against Rudolf?
So the battle went similar as it did in real life. The first two groups came in close combat and where exhausted soon, while little casualties were suffered. First knights left the battle field, on both sides.
You never really wondered if you could bypass the battle ground on the left or right.
You finally decided to sent Heinrich, still trying to keep yourself from the battle. Heinrich almost made it, Rudolf already fell from the horse, but he escaped - just like in history. Then Rudolf's reserve appeared. Now it showed that dividing your reserve was a mistake. Heinrich could not stand, he was lucky to flee. This brought your whole army in disorder. And now there were these 60 knights in your back. At this moment you had little chance to win. In real history, Ottokar sent some knights after those enemies at his back - and his army thought the reserve was running away.
In our case it was even more critical. Your knights were already wondering why you did not fight and they expected you to run like a coward. Then Heinrich almost won, but he was repelled and run away. The remaining knights on the battle ground were already wondering if this wasn't the right moment to say goodbye. When they saw parts of your reserve turning north, this was it. And Rudolf played his last card. His men began to shout that the Bohemians were running away.
At this moment, although both sides had suffered the almost the same casualties, the battle was lost, as your knights believed that it was. And now it was the time for the Kumans!
That's it. After all you should be glad. You played the game almost the same way the Iron King did. He is dead - you are alive and maybe ready to join soon another IH.
Re: Dynasty
Was I at fault anywhere?
Re: Dynasty
GAH! I read his tomb was in Prague and thought the Emperor was generous enough to send the body back. I did not really had the time to do a research and I was caught.First, thank you for the flowers. I really enjoyed the game.
Prince Cobra, you are a much better writer than me, you should host the next IH!!
But you are historically incorrect: Rudolf brought the dead body to Vienna, where he was displayed 30 weeks long!
My own IH... I am too busy for that, unfortunately. For now, I am content to parasite on other people's work.
Edit: Now the text has been corrected in a more historically accurate way.
Last edited by Prince Cobra; 10-26-2010 at 20:18.
R.I.P. Tosa...
Re: Dynasty
Great IH Franc - and for the first time in a long time - we finished it!! Like Kage, my only concern is the third choice wins - maybe we could use a number of choices - say 6 - then dice for the "winner" next time.
As for our choices - I had always thought we should have been more aggressive - but I am like that in every IH!!!
Hopefully we can have another one of these soon - I feel inspired to try my Midway IH in this style - I now I have threatened it for ages, but one day I may get the time!!
"Some people say MTW is a matter of life or death - but you have to realise it is more important than that"
With apologies to Bill Shankly
My first balloon- for "On this day in History"
Re: Dynasty
For those who love statistics:
There were 15 players with votes and 6 with decisive ones:
KK 1 decisive out of 6 votes
AKWC 7 out of 8
Kage 0 out of 9
Agonny 1 out of 8
Sign T. 1 out of 1
Prince C.1 out of 4
Csargo 1 out of 1
Why do you think?Was I at fault anywhere?
Re: Dynasty
Thanks for the statistics Franc. As can be seen through the game i tried to convince others to support my point of view, not once force it to them. I am quite indifferent about the role of tactics and strategy in medieval warfare, for example i could give quite a number of battles over river crossings and examples of usefulness of infantry in certain roles. Still i understand that each game will reflect the views of the host on particular subject and should be played according to that.Once more i want to express that i enjoyed this game immensely.
Last edited by Kagemusha; 10-30-2010 at 20:11.
Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.
Re: Dynasty
Nice list.
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