The Caravel Mod

[gollum]

Hello Durango,
i intend to make merc units very slightly more able than their normal campaign counterparts in terms of battle performance and equal in morale but cost much more (double or triple or in between these of what their campaign/faction counterparts would to train, and similarly to maintain).

Another approach would be to make them as you say less reliable morale-wise, which is something to consider in combination with higher costs (ie disadvantage mercs not only from their recruitment price, but also from their morale). I will think about this and see, in time, what to do. Thank you for this suggestion.

[Stazi]

Gollum, check the unit_prod file. There is something wrong with the end of the file. Viking Thralls are doubled, many empty lines, etc. I think it wasn't intentional.
It's the last unit so it may not cause problems but who knows? Better keep it right and clear.
---- EDIT ----
the same in build_prod. What text editor do you use?

[gollum]

Hello Stazi,
if you read this thread back to my initial conversation with Glenn, it is mentioned that the unit-prod as well as the build-prod files have a coda that is generated by repeated use of teh Gnome editor. Hence, i advised earlier in this thread to make any editions to the files manually, as making them through the editor will cause the game to crash.

This is something i am not responsible for - its a thing of the editor. The only solution is to have gone back to the files and done all the changes i did manually all over again, which i am not going to since the files work, due to not having the time for such an endeavor.

This does not impact the game in any other way for anyone who wants to simply play. Just those who want to do additional editing of the files need to do it manually, ie without using the Gnome editor. Only in that case the editor will further displace the cols and the game will crash. Any editing you want to do in the unit and build prod files, do it manually.

[gollum]

Stazi,
quoting myself from post No75 of this thread:

Last but not least; if you would like to do personal custom modifications on the files accessed by the gnome editor (build_prod and unit_prod), by all means do so, but edit the files directly in the txt. The editor shifts the data columns everytime one modifies something (a thing of the editor, not a fault of my own as far as i know) and i have used that so many times, that now whenever i use it again, the game crashes because of it, if i edit by using the editor. Sorry about that, but that's the way it is, nothing i can do about it, unless i go back and make all the changes i did by now, by editing the file directly, which is way too much work only to have the files "modifiable" by the editor henceforth. Again apologies. You can use the editor, however, to find what goes where and what does what, if you are not familiar with the txt file you wish to alter, before proceeding to do the change directly in the file itself.

and also post No26

The editor shifts the columns sometimes and i have used the eitor many many times, which makes it more likely that this shifting will manifest, and then the game can't load because of it.

If i knew the editor would make that mess, i wouldn't have used in editing (only to help me "see" where is what) from the beginning. By the time it was clear what had happened, i had done so much work in the files with the editor that there was no going back.

There could be a potential solution i have thought about to copy/paste the "normal" lines of data (not the coda), in a fresh vanilla file, replacing it, but i fear that only copying the right amount of data would make it work. Perhaps it could be done very gradually (few lines everytime).

The result would, in any case, accomplish little for those that would want to use the editor again: when anyone would use the editor again, a coda would start all over again forming.

The files as they are work absolutely fine and do not affect adversely the game at all to the best of my knowledge, and i have tested this as extensively as it was possible. They only affect you if you want to edit the unit-prod and building-prod files using the editor - that won't work. In that case, just edit the files manually and no problem.

[Stazi]

My apologies . I didn't read the whole thread carefully. I saw the mess and wanted to let you know. Those additional lines at the end doesn't really change anything. I've deleted them and game works as before.
Many of the units don't show their deads. Are you going to make a proper deadpage file?

[gollum]

Originally posted by Stazi
My apologies . I didn't read the whole thread carefully.

No worries

I saw the mess and wanted to let you know.

I really appreciate it, thank you. Please feel free to keep posting about anything you observe/want to ask etc. I already added you and everyone else that contributed in the thread/mod in the credits.

Those additional lines at the end doesn't really change anything. I've deleted them and game works as before.

That's good to know. Iirc, i deleted them once and the game crashed :)

Many of the units don't show their deads. Are you going to make a proper deadpage file?

if you mean about dead bodies on the battlemap, the mod does not change the vanilla settings, so, whatever the dead bodies are in vanilla they (hopefully) should be the same in the mod; at least that is i think the case if i haven't understood you incorrectly or unless you have something to propose in which case i'll be very happy to hear it.

[Stazi]

There are some errors/missing units in the vanilla "deadpage coords" file causing that about 1/4 of the units don't leave dead bodies. I saw a topic about it somewhere and prepared one for myself. You can download it here. As you mentioned, it works with vanilla and your mod too.

[Durango]

That's good to know. Iirc, i deleted them once and the game crashed :)

Strange. I too have removed the extra lines, and the game works just fine.

There are some errors/missing units in the vanilla "deadpage coords" file causing that about 1/4 of the units don't leave dead bodies. I saw a topic about it somewhere and prepared one for myself. You can download it here. As you mentioned, it works with vanilla and your mod too.

Are you sure that a whopping 25% of vanilla units have no dead bodies? That would be a serious bug. Could you, off the top of your head,
give some examples of the units that are affected? I would much appreciate it.

[Stazi]

Are you sure that a whopping 25% of vanilla units have no dead bodies? That would be a serious bug. Could you, off the top of your head,
give some examples of the units that are affected? I would much appreciate it.

Check the duel Jobbagy vs Spanish Jintes. Organ Gun crew doesn't even have an entry in the deadpage file. All these units (and many others) don't leave bodies. Game engine looks for the right body in the deadpage file but when it encounters any error it stops looking further. That's why good, innocent units are affected too. Maybe it's not a serious bug but most of the people like to see the proofs of their hard work lying around the battlefield .

[Durango]

Check the duel Jobbagy vs Spanish Jintes. Organ Gun crew doesn't even have an entry in the deadpage file. All these units (and many others) don't leave bodies. Game engine looks for the right body in the deadpage file but when it encounters any error it stops looking further. That's why good, innocent units are affected too. Maybe it's not a serious bug but most of the people like to see the proofs of their hard work lying around the battlefield .

Heh, that's shoddy of CA to let slip...

Well, all units in XL have dead bodies at least (checked), but I haven't seen any posts by either Vikinghorde or Tyberius
that proclaims fixing this issue. Good work nonetheless, the Caravel mod deserves to be as polished as possible.

[Stazi]

When someone creates new units, he simply has to make proper deadpage file. Some of the mods (like Hellenic, Napoleon) go step further and give their own dead256 file with new dead bodies graphics (e.g. destroyed chariots, guns).
IIRC, to be sure if all units leave bodies you only need to check last unit from the unit_prod and last from the deadpage. If they leave bodies, all others do too. The right solution for the issue was announced by Barocca about 2004.

[Durango]

Hahaha, if you were in the mob, your nickname would be "Deadman" by now

If you want dead bodies, Stazi is the man...

[gollum]

It's good to know that the extra lines are deletable, thank you Durango. I'll try again, when i pick the mod again.

Stazi, thank you for this information, i have noticed that certain units did not give out dead bodies but... i thought it was an engine quirk :) not that CA did not specify them. If it is a fraction of dead bodies from every unit it's possible that it had to do with performance perhaps and they wanted to keep it low.

Whatever the case, thank you for making me aware of this, i would most certainly like to include it in the next version, and i'll pm you eventually in due time.

[PershsNhpios]

Excellent work, Stazi! You will effectively coerce our friend into making another final version!

I am just adding crusades for all catholics, and I will be installing your patch, then starting a new game.

Thank you for your time, Stazi, you have done so much for us this year!

[gollum]

Indeed, i have to say already quite a number of small and perfectly doable within the the vanilla context but significant number of things have piled up for the next version. It might be that i get around to do them within the month, actually. But we'll see. The mod is certainly getting there - ie to be an improved and more balanced but clearly recognisable vanilla. Thank you all for your interest and contributions in the mod, i really appreciate it

[virus_found]

Hello. I'm a vanilla player (since those times, the game was issued). The only thing, that bothers me in vanilla, is an AI being effortless at establishing overseas trade. It is the hugest possible exploit of this game. Last time I played Novgorod (expert, indeed), my income was 25k, expences were 5k. That was without farming, it's useless to spend a lot of money on farm upgrades, since there is such an imbalanced trade. And after you are the richest, the strongest, the vastest etc., it's plain boring to continue.
The question is: "How does this mod address the abovementioned issue?"
The only way to make it less abusable, imho, is to make AI twice as agressive, as it was. So that you never feel safe, just sitting at the edge of the map (Novgorod and some other countries) and accumulating wealth. But that's just my assumption. Or there are more reliable and tried ways of make it less exploitable?

Also, I would like to know all (or most) changes, this mod does to units (price, availability etc.). I was a bit shocked, after seeing somewhere here, that vikings landsmenn/carls/huscarls were "modded out". It would be, unfortunately, too much for me to try this mod, as, it seems, not only vikings are touched, aren't they? There is nothing wrong in an imbalanced unit, wars are never balanced. After all, AI is the most restricting and imbalancing factor for most games in the genre. No, for all games in the genre. That is why, I'd love to see some mod for MTW, that would touch only AI behaviour, both strategically and tactically.

By the way, is there a possible way of making all tactical maps at least twice bigger? It irritates me the most, when my cavalry stumbles upon an invisible wall somewhere. By the way, it is a bane of most computer games with realtime field battles.

[gollum]

Hello virus found, and welcome to the org and the MTW section.

Trade is boosted by making more meaningful AI tech tree choices that help him set up a network quicker and more effectively. Also naval stats of ships and ship availability have been altered so that the naval game is morebalanced and more dynamic. if you play with the suggested settings ie with a high loyalty setting for teh AI, the AI factions are better at managing their network too.

There are various solutions in tweaking trade; these range from tweaking the value of the goods, to teh % of profit made for the trader, to scrapping the whole system out. This mod does none of those, as it aims to improve on vanilla gameplay, and so maintain vanilla gameplay whenver this was possible.

All changes of stats and prices are aimed towards the principle of correctly pricng units according to what they can do on the field, and also to rationalise their availability. Certain units are too easy to get and others too difficult for no good reason and this has been altered.
Statistical changes are minor in order to keep units in the same role as in vanilla while making them more useful/less overpowered - depending on what each unit needed according to my and Caravel' judgment.
It would be too tedious to list all changes as there are too many of them; if you are absolutely bent on it, i suggest you download the gnome editor and simply open the vanilla unit production, and the one the mod uses, and compare column by column. The best way however, and by far teh more enjoyable, is to play the game with the mod on. However, i repeat that despite the changes, factions and units are recognisably vanilla - not vanilla easier and more unbalanced though, but harder and more balanced.

As far as balanced is concerned, it is in fact a key ingredient of the mod - perhaps the key ingredient. If you wish to play the game with units are just too good and too cheap, you can either stick with vanilla (that has such units) or try other mods that have such units. You could also make your own modifications to vanilla or to the mod if you so you wish, and i'd be happy to answer questions as to how to do changes you wish to make.

Regarding AI aggressiveness, it can be good for the AI factions in teh short term, but its a killer in the long term, especialy if you play in low loyalty settings. If you play in loyalty setting at about 140-180, the AI will be more tenacious in teh ling term but less aggressive in the short term. If you play at 120 loyalty (the default one), aggressive AI personalities burn teh AI factions out very quickly - its generally a bad idea for a satisfying campaign.

As far as maps are concerned, you could delete the small maps for every terrain type (steppe, plains, hills, mountains); the engine then would pick the large ones only that remain.The maps are IIRC in the battle folder - and then choose maps.

[virus_found]

Thank you, gollum, for the fast reply.
As I'm very interested in only one part of your mod, that does wonders to AI tech tree choises. I would really, really like to apply only this part of your mod to my vanilla installation, do you see it possible? Will it become "vanilla + great AI tech tree choises modifications" or "broken vanilla due to the lack of your other modifications, which can't live one without another"? If the former, then I'm really glad, first of all, and I'd really appreciate your help in pointing me to the filename, I need". I'm also interested, what I would miss, if I applied only that single part, regarding tech trees. From what I already know, I will miss some adjustments to some units' price/availability/stats. What else (in common, not in details)? :)
Thank you in advance.

[gollum]

Hello virus found,
you could of course try substituting only the buildings prod file. However, this operates and is worked together with the units prod file. You'd still have to mod all the unit dependencies at least to the tech tree of the mod, otherwise you'll get nonsensical results and perhaps even crashes. Then you would have to test them all for crashes and see how they play out too (ie do they have the intended effect? etc), then iron out the crashes and the misfires and proceed iteratively - essentially it would turn out you making your own vanilla mod rather than customising teh Caravel mod.

While this is fine by me, i can't guarantee you the considerable commitment and help that such an undertaking would require. You are free of course to do it alone, and i'll try to help you as time allows if you decide to go down that route. I doubt that it will be short, simple and smooth though, especially as you seem inexperienced with the basics of modding. Most likely the amount of answers i can provide would be very very small for the amount of questions you'd have and likely it wouldn't come timely enough for you to maintain a steady, fast work pace.

In effect, i think yours is a bit of a "you can't have the pie intact and eat it too" case :)

It all comes down to preference in the end and thus each person is selective in a personal way in what they want to change, and less in a purely objective way. For example, you say you want a more challenging game, but at the same time are unwilling to accept changes for the sake of balance it seems. However, its precisely these balance changes that make the game more challenging, both in teh camp map and in teh battle map.

At the end of the day, the only thing that can persuade or dissuade one, is playing for a while the mod as is with an open mind, but of course not all people are prepared to do that understandably. On the other hand, equally understandably as i hope you'll agree, i made the mod as i and Caravel saw fit, and there is no point in changing it to please persons x, y or z, as otherwise it wouldn't be our mod.

[PershsNhpios]

Welcome to the Org and to the Caravel mod, VF.

If it is not possible to be compliant immediately with your wish to institute only one facet of the mod, perhaps it will be found possible to grant your wish or at least agree on a comprimise if we can know how familiar you are with the features of the mod and which you are uninterested in.

You will discover that Gollum has created a mod which alters the cosmetic appearance of MTW not a whit, and that it is in fact mostly comprised of tweaks which assist the AI and enhance gameplay very much in the manner that you wish AI production preferences to be augmented.

If you are interested in the AI choosing more wisely what to produce, and thus establishing a more stable and stronger economy, you will find that all of Gollum's modifications are strictly employed in this respect - to enhance AI performance and also balance.

As Gollum has said, increasing AI aggression causes large factions to form and then disintegrate extremely quickly, as is often seen in vanilla, and many find this unrealistic, annoying and ruinous to the feeling of immersion. By increasing loyalty penalties however, as has been done, the AI refuses to quit its borders before the kingdom is stable.

What this means is that although you can indeed still sit in the corner of the map and make money, the AI will also sit unmolested and make as much money if not more (And now it will know exactly where to put that money), if you are for example Denmark and your rival the HRE. You will also find it extremely difficult to make excessive amounts of money, especially in the early game, and garnering enough money to challenge the rebels militarily will also ensure you are often without any change.

Please do not underestimate the value and challenge presented by Gollum's work. I know the feeling of disappointment regarding the loss of a household favourite like Huscarles (Though I feel none on this point), but it would be ridiculous to ignore the strengths of this mod for such a negligble loss.

Is it also possible brother Gollum that our friend could keep the Scandinavian units whilst employing your major preference modifications?

[virus_found]

Hello, Glenn (if you don't mind me asking, isn't your nickname from Chrono Trigger/Cross?).
You two are a bit biased towards your creation, and I can understand this totally. It can be a really wondrous mod, indeed, and probably it is. But I can't cope with modified units in any way. They must be virgin, like CA created them, be them balanced or unbalanced, it doesn't matter for me, believe me. On the other hand, I'm very interested in "better" building choises, AI makes, like in overseas trade (i.e. it chooses merchant buildings and shipyards more often). And I'm also interested in tactical AI enhancements, described before.
The only way out is starting carving unneeded (for me) things out of your precious mod, in which, I hope, you'll help me a bit :) And no, I had a lot of modding experience in many games in the past, but now I became somewhat purist, and mod only things, that totally ruin my gameplay experience, like overabusive trading in MTW.

[PershsNhpios]

You must have your triggers crossed, VF, for if you ask of the name Glenn, you are mistaken in referring to it as a nickname, for it is indeed my own. If however you refer to the mark of Cauallero, this is not a nickname, but rather a title, which in addition to my 'location' is a reference to my respect for a certain knight-errant of considerable favour, El Ingenioso Hidalgo Don Quijote de la Mancha.

Of course, I am nowadays less a knight-errant and more a sedate member of the Hall's brotherhood, curtailing my travels without this realm since they have only led me into trouble.

Now before you begin slinging about accusations, I must make you aware that the mod is not my creation, but the brainchild of two fine brothers, Caravel and Gollum. I am simply enthusiastic. I am not however not a modder, and so your only assistance in reaching a comprimise will come from brother Gollum.

I can't speak for him, so we must await his opinion, but meanwhile I suggest you read the discussions of this thread regarding the gameplay of the mod, and that for the sake of experiment you even download the mod (Which is tiny in size) if you have time and simply try it.

If none of this is possible, then it is most advisable to at least maintain an open mind.

And please, if you will, visit us in the Hall.

[caravel]

I try not to step on gollum's toes when it comes to his mod, but if I may be so bold as to comment?

If you want to create a mod based on this mod for your own use, that's very possible. It's a case of finding the parts you like, studying the changes made and implementing them in your own creation. It will take some work on your part and some knowledge of the files, as simply cherry picking certain files is likely to leave you with a broken game.

In as nutshell - yes it's possible, but it will require a bit of work.

[virus_found]

Thank you, that concludes all my story :)

[gollum]

Dear All,
the latest version of the mod - v2.3 - is now up and available for download.

It incorporates the following:

-Unique mercenary units that are worthwhile but expensive to recruit. Now there is no need to put artificial caps in your mercenary buys, while at the same time it will cost you considerably at the opening stages of the campaign to overwhelm the opposition with mercs
-Improved starting garrisons for the rebels and some of the factions
-Minor statistical improvements in missile weapons and some units to make them more worthwhile/less overpowered while keeping them in their vanilla familiar role as always
-Improved use of xbows and arbs by the AI by fiddling with the AI use of them parameters (as with the BGs)
-Further improved Catholic BGs by taking out the impetuous state of theirs as per Caravel's suggestion. They are now very cautiously deployed in battle by the AI

I propose to set loyalty to :140 if you want a good early/middle game or :150 if you are a turtler and want a long game. Loyalty 180 was good but it was making the AI factions too cautious and thus prevented them from exploiting opportunities. I think that, after testing, loyalty:140 setting is actually better. This came about after some discussions we had here with Stazi whom i thank for it.

The weather modded file was withdrawn as the engine returns the values automatically to the default ones of the file once used. Thanks to Axalon, Stazi and Durango for making me aware of this and apologies for the mistake The weather is in fact hardcoded from the file but it can be modded by importing textures to MTW from STW as per Ra's al Ghuls instructions in the modding weather thread (see here:https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...weather-in-MTW). The Samurai Warlords mod has this feature. While the modded weather file does not really work, this does not create any side effect so if you have a previous version it will play fine, just the weather features i talk about in this thread are unfortunately not so.
Part of the reason why i was fooled into believing that it was working was because the temperate terrain type that has the most harsh weather abounds in the Caravel Mod, unlike in vanilla where Lush is the most common. Hence i was experiencing more severe weather for the most part, but that was due to the terrain rather than the modifiction of the file working.
Apologies for the mistake and thank you for your patience.

Enjoy

[Faremisch]

Thanks for the info Gollum, I´m certain the mod is a true gaming experience. I have one question for you on loyalty. I followed your advice and tested setting loyalty to 180 (in other mods currently playing), and I´ve been appreciating the, at least as appears to me, more stable AI-empires consolidating. At the same time I´m used to auto-managing taxes in order not to get random uprisings. Do you play the same way and in fact put the same strings on yourself as on the AI. Loyalty 180, or do you micromanage each territory to get 120, which is normally enough? Never mind the figure 180. The question is the same for for 140 or 150?

[gollum]

Hello Faremisch,
i always micro, because in that way i can stretch my forces to the limit when attacking in achieving the most in attacking armies with the fewest in defending as a calculated risk that the AI automanage could never hope to match. Sometimes i do get rebellions of course in newly conquered territories or the AI attacking me on my own underdefended home territories but they are partof the calculated risk and i have (or make up on the go) usually the means to deal with them.

[PershsNhpios]

Brother Gollum, please forgive that I am a little pressed for time lately (Else there would be an update to the Reigns AAR), but I would like to congratulate you on this new release and thank you for it.

Is it 'save-game compatible'?

[gollum]

Hello Glenn, thanks for the congrats;
play when and if you like. The mod is a labour of love for me - making it and playing it is already more than enough satisfaction.

Sharing it is also equally satisfying but always presupposes free will - otherwise its not sharing.

Yes, it is save compatible, although you'll find that some things have changed in your game (the mercs you get for example etc).

[Trapped in Samsara]

Hi Gollum

Just want to say I played two campaigns of Caravel - v2.1 English and v2.2 Byzantine, both hard - and enjoyed them both. Thank you.

I see that you are now recommending loyalty:140. I approve. I felt that the AI was being 'unnecessarily' cautious, even timid, on occasion in the two campaigns. I thought that this was possibly due to its determination to preserve its troops to ensure sufficient garrisons to meet the loyalty threshold. But that's just speculation on my part.

I will get 'round to playing v2.3 at some point I'm quite sure. But I want to check out Redux next. You modders really are spoiling us old-school TW-ers these days.

Best regards
Victor

Sapere aude
Horace