Diplomacy

[CashMunny]

Is diplomacy going to suck as hard as it does in EB1? Or is the Diplomatic AI no longer hard-coded, and you guys can maybe fix it? Because that'd be just swell.

[XSamatan]

As a reference what is possible in MTW2 and not you may want to check other major modifications. It is definitely more adjustable, but bear in mind, it is a game not reality.

[CashMunny]

As a reference what is possible in MTW2 and not you may want to check other major modifications. It is definitely more adjustable, but bear in mind, it is a game not reality.

I have played plenty of modifications, but the diplomacy system isn't changed much from Vanilla, from what I can tell. So I came to ask specifically about EBII. And yes, I realize it is not reality, but if the diplomatic AI is not hard-coded, it can be sensible. Plenty of games have excellent or at least decent AI, it is not a matter of not having the technology, it was a matter of not being able to legally edit it, at least in EB1.

[Foot]

if the diplomatic AI is not hard-coded, it can be sensible.

That's not a necessarily true, and is very optimistic.

Foot

[QuintusSertorius]

The real issue for me is that since they've* basically done nothing to the AI since R:TW, there's still the problem of diplomacy and military AI's not talking to each other.

*To be clear "they" are CA, not the EB team.

[CashMunny]

That's not a necessarily true, and is very optimistic.

Foot

Okay, MORE sensible than it is currently, begging for ceasefires and then attacking the same turn...


As for the AI's not talking to each other, I don't think anything could be done about that, but that really is the crux of the problem right there. If I'm destroying an enemy militarily, the diplomats should be scrambling to get me to stop, not demanding I become a protectorate... for instance, Paradox Games, which are sort of a similar grand strategy, (although executed VERY differently) seem to generally have a good AI, it really is too bad Creative Assembly/Activision fails so terribly at it...

[Rahl]

The real issue for me is that since they've* basically done nothing to the AI since R:TW, there's still the problem of diplomacy and military AI's not talking to each other.

*To be clear "they" are CA, not the EB team.

They may not talk to each other, but the AI doesn't break Alliances just for fun. I didn't play M2TW Mods very much (compare to EB) but tested a number of factions several hours each in Third Age and Speer & Schwert and it's way better as far as I can tell.
You can see how much a faction likes you, how likely it is that the AI accepts your offers and how trustworthy a faction is. I never saw an allied faction attacking me, even not neutral factions that like me a lot. It actually seemed quite passive for a player like me that is used to super-aggressive AIs of RTW or EB, but the AI behavior was quite reasonable and relative realistic.

[QuintusSertorius]

They may not talk to each other, but the AI doesn't break Alliances just for fun. I didn't play M2TW Mods very much (compare to EB) but tested a number of factions several hours each in Third Age and Speer & Schwert and it's way better as far as I can tell.
You can see how much a faction likes you, how likely it is that the AI accepts your offers and how trustworthy a faction is. I never saw an allied faction attacking me, even not neutral factions that like me a lot. It actually seemed quite passive for a player like me that is used to super-aggressive AIs of RTW or EB, but the AI behavior was quite reasonable and relative realistic.

One review I watched said the AI was obsessive about places on its hit list, regardless of who owned it. So perhaps if its a faction distant and you don't hold anything in their victory conditions, sure. Otherwise you could predict where they'd go.

[Ichon]

Diplomatic AI is much improved in MTW2. It was basically useless to try for anything other than trade rights in RTW. That said- if you have only 4 options and you go from having 1 work to 3 out of 4 its an improvement but does it really matter when that 4th option is really the one you want?

MTW2 AI can be made to generally follow alliances if your own actions are honorable and you play to the AI (sharing few borders, sharing many enemies, tribute occasionally, etc) but a big part of getting at least a semi-loyal AI seems to be marriage alliances. Without a Princess you might be able to still do it but its much more difficult.

The AI still does some boneheaded things such as DoW across the world with a naval blockade, attack your best defended city with a single half stack and demand your surrender when you are 2x the size of the AI- that sort of thing. It seems less obstinate and insane than in RTW but its a matter of degrees only.

[AlexCouceiro]

Any news about when EB2 will be released?

If you guys can reproduce the previous mod into MTW2 engine, I am sure you will make the best mod ever. And yes, I have played DLV + BB and Stainless steel 6.4 and diplomacy can be a lot better than in RTW. However, AI will lack all the agressiveness from before, which seems to me as a small setback. But generaly speaking it is far better.

[Atraphoenix]

Any news about when EB2 will be released?

If you guys can reproduce the previous mod into MTW2 engine, I am sure you will make the best mod ever. And yes, I have played DLV + BB and Stainless steel 6.4 and diplomacy can be a lot better than in RTW. However, AI will lack all the agressiveness from before, which seems to me as a small setback. But generaly speaking it is far better.

I am sure M2TW is far ahead if you campare it RTW, about passivity I can easily script hostilities but I do not prefer.
In RTW when you press end turn button you can only imagine "PAX ROMANA" when you subjugate all other factions and you feel loneliness on your desk and the only troble you have is your corrupted generals and damn bandits...

On EB2, I am sure you will get soon accustomed to hear "When it is done."

[Paltmull]

From my experience, the M2TW AI is much better. Other factions won't attack you just because you happen to share borders with them. Also the system of classifying your diplomatic proposals into "very demanding/demanding/balanced/generous/very generous" makes the diplomatic AI a lot more reasonable. If you have a much stronger military than an enemy faction and you offer a ceasefire, they will most likely accept.

[Drunk Clown]

I find that most of the time I can only forge alliances with other factions in the beginning of the campaign. The bigger your empire gets, the worser your relationships with the other factions (except your allies, with whom you have a healthy relationship[due to alliance]). And if you have a bad relationship with a faction they won't accept anything! Even if your offer is VERY VERY generous. The only time I can forge an alliance with a faction later on in the game is when we have common enemies (e.g. I was spain, the scots p0wnd the brits, I p0wnd the scots and I got a request from England to be his friend, then they backstabbed me [eventhough they had 3 region and I like whole europe] so I exterminated them). Nother time I allied myself to Sicily (me being Venice) and we shared borders and thus they started to dislike me. I even helped them defeat a great Milanese army, but still they didn't like me; so I killed them.

I just have mixed feelings, one time they amaze me the other time it's a facepalm.

[Tuuvi]

I find that most of the time I can only forge alliances with other factions in the beginning of the campaign. The bigger your empire gets, the worser your relationships with the other factions (except your allies, with whom you have a healthy relationship[due to alliance]). And if you have a bad relationship with a faction they won't accept anything! Even if your offer is VERY VERY generous. The only time I can forge an alliance with a faction later on in the game is when we have common enemies (e.g. I was spain, the scots p0wnd the brits, I p0wnd the scots and I got a request from England to be his friend, then they backstabbed me [eventhough they had 3 region and I like whole europe] so I exterminated them). Nother time I allied myself to Sicily (me being Venice) and we shared borders and thus they started to dislike me. I even helped them defeat a great Milanese army, but still they didn't like me; so I killed them.

I just have mixed feelings, one time they amaze me the other time it's a facepalm.

I think I remember reading that there is a bug with M2TW that makes your faction standing degrade when it shouldn't, which would explain this problem. I think there was some sort of unofficial patch you could download.

[Populus Romanus]

In M2TW, even on E/E difficulty, I found it impossible to improve my credibility rating. The highest it ever was was the level in the beginning, and from there only went down, never up.

[bobbin]

I think I remember reading that there is a bug with M2TW that makes your faction standing degrade when it shouldn't, which would explain this problem. I think there was some sort of unofficial patch you could download.

It was a bit of redundant code that wasn't commented out, basically you got negative reputation for peacefully occupying a city after a seige.