Koinon Hellenon: Athens X Sparta (.org X TWCenter), a participative AAR - Athenai

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

I propose sending a spy to infiltrate Halikarnassos and deliver report on the internal state of affairs of Halikarnassos to our next polis session.

I AGREE with this Rhobrios.

I PROPOSE that we expand the polis of Athenai (i.e. build the next governmental building)

I PROPOSE that we recruit Toxotai Kretikoi in Kydonia (if not possible yet, then expand the barracks there instead)

I PROPOSE that we send a diplomat to Kart-Hadast and on behalf of the Koinon offer peace + trade and also some monetary compansation (2000 mnai)

I PROPOSE that we make Nikaia a Free Allied Kingdom (Type IV)

I AGREE, also, with these proposals.

As for

I PROPOSE that we offer a peace treaty to the new Basileos tou Pontos

I am of a mind to agree with Green Lizard. So, as it stands at the moment I must DISAGREE with this proposal, but if it were amended to include the release of Sinope from Pontic oppression then I would AGREE. What say you, Arthouros?

A few proposals:

1: In the same line, we could send a scout to Sinope, just to see how the city is doing under the rule of Pontus. It would also show if they we're preparing an army.

2: We can improve the shools in Rhodes. Hopefully briliant minds would be drawn to the Island. (This could be done by establishing better contacs with Alexandië. I had heard that Alexandië is thé new center of learning in the known world).

I AGREE with these proposals.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

I am of a mind to agree with Green Lizard. So, as it stands at the moment I must DISAGREE with this proposal, but if it were amended to include the release of Sinope from Pontic oppression then I would AGREE. What say you, Arthouros?

I say that the matter of Sinope slipped my mind, and as such I have withdrawn my proposal and changed it to this:

I PROPOSE that we offer a peace treaty to the new Basileos tou Pontos in exchange for Sinope, and if they refuse liberate it by force (in the future).


I also AGREE with Greenlizard0.'s proposals

[Greenlizard0.]

I PROPOSE that we offer a peace treaty to the new Basileos tou Pontos in exchange for Sinope, and if they refuse liberate it by force (in the future).

In that case I agree.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Rhobrios:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

1. I propose sending a spy to infiltrate Halikarnassos and deliver report on the internal state of affairs of Halikarnassos to our next polis session.

1. AGREE Arthouros, Greenlizard0, Demosthenes



Arthouros:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

1. I PROPOSE that we expand the polis of Athenai (i.e. build the next governmental building)

2. I PROPOSE that we recruit Toxotai Kretikoi in Kydonia (if not possible yet, then expand the barracks there instead)

3. I PROPOSE that we send a diplomat to Kart-Hadast and on behalf of the Koinon offer peace + trade and also some monetary compansation (2000 mnai)

4. I PROPOSE that we make Nikaia a Free Allied Kingdom (Type IV)

5. I PROPOSE that we offer a peace treaty to the new Basileos tou Pontos in exchange for Sinope, and if they refuse liberate it by force (in the future).

1. AGREE Rhobrios, Greenlizard0, Demosthenes

2. AGREE Rhobrios, Greenlizard0, Demosthenes

3. AGREE Rhobrios, Greenlizard0, Demosthenes

4. AGREE Greenlizard0, Demosthenes DISAGREE Rhobrios

5. AGREE Greenlizard0


Greenlizard0:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

1: In the same line, we could send a scout to Sinope, just to see how the city is doing under the rule of Pontus. It would also show if they we're preparing an army.

2: We can improve the schools in Rhodes. Hopefully brilliant minds would be drawn to the Island. (This could be done by establishing better contacts with Alexandria. I had heard that Alexandria is the new center of learning in the known world).

1. AGREE Rhobrios, Demosthenes, Arthouros

2. AGREE Rhobrios, Demosthenes, Arthouros

[Populus Romanus]

I think we are ready for an update.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Agreed.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Starting to itch for a new update...

[jirisys]

KABOOM!

Dead...

~Jirisys ()

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

Have a feeling Molina's not gonna like that...

[jirisys]

I am apathic to the plight of some voice-in-the-sky...

~Jirisys ()

[Molinaargh]

Sorry guys, I know it's been a long time since an update, but you'll have to wait some more.

The reason for this is my classes restarted and I'm getting used to the new routine.

There will be a new update soon, don't worry.

I'd say in 24 hours.

[jirisys]

Bugger :/

Don't worry mate.

~Jirisys ()

[Populus Romanus]

Sorry guys, I know it's been a long time since an update, but you'll have to wait some more.

The reason for this is my classes restarted and I'm getting used to the new routine.

There will be a new update soon, don't worry.

I'd say in 24 hours.

Athenai fools! Your impatience will invoke the wrath of Hermes upon your pitiful heads!

[Molinaargh]

The current polis session is now over.

[Populus Romanus]

The current polis session is now over.

Hurrah! Now, lets hope that people are still checking for an update here...

[Molinaargh]

248 BC

Polis motions:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Athenian motions:
(Yes)-Send a spy to infiltrate Halikarnassos and deliver report on the internal state of affairs of Halikarnassos to our next polis session.
(Not available)-Expand the polis of Athenai (i.e. build the next governmental building).
(Yes)-Recruit Toxotai Kretikoi in Kydonia (if not possible yet, then expand the barracks there instead).
(Conflicting with Spartan interests)-Send a diplomat to Kart-Hadast and on behalf of the Koinon offer peace + trade and also some monetary compansation (2000 mnai).
(Yes)-Make Nikaia a Free Allied Kingdom (Type IV).
(Yes)-Offer a peace treaty to the new Basileos tou Pontos in exchange for Sinope, and if they refuse liberate it by force (in the future).
(Yes)-Send a scout to Sinope, just to see how the city is doing under the rule of Pontus. It would also show if they are preparing an army.
(Yes)-Improve the schools in Rhodes. Hopefully brilliant minds would be drawn to the Island.

Spartan motions:
(Yes)-Agis to be separated from Doros - we would not want them murdering each other, would we?
(Yes)-Agis takes a portion of Spartans within the alliance army and returns to Byzantion, to guard against a possible Getic betrayal.
(Already commanding it)-Akrotatos to take over the Sparte Expeditionary Force.
(Yes)-Wait to attack Messana until we figure out why the hell the Romaioi crossed the Straights.
(Yes)-Train four units of Spartiate Hoplitai.
(Yes)-Raise a Stratia ton Peloponesos: This Stratia is to be raised in Sparte and Korinthos. The four Spartiate Hoplitai will be incuded in this.
(Yes)-Raise a Stratia ton Makedonia: This Stratia is to be raised in Pella, and it shall ideally include at least a few Phalangitai in this Stratia.
(Yes)-Constuct a fort at the place where the borders of Attike, Aitolia, and Thessalia meet.
(Possible)-Influence Rhodes into the Spartan sphere.

Peace of the East

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

By the end of the year, Agis turned his back on the Alliance Army and retreated to Byzantion, taking some Spartans with him. The Spartan Council feared he might try to take revenge on Doros - and even assassinate him - if he stayed with the Alliance Army.




Stupid old men! I am tired of being told what to do! First they send me with the Alliance Army under command of Doros to be humiliated, now they demand my retreat! When I am King...

In Rhodos the construction of a school was ordered, but this would not be the most important event to happen in that polis this year. You councilors must be aware of the situation by now, but I will explain the details later.



Constructions were finished throughout the hellenic poleis. In Nikaia a government allied to Athenai was established after Doros's conquest of the polis in the previous year.



In Pergamon, the improved military barracks allowed the recruitment of powerful cavalry.



In Kretai, the Athenian council's wish to recruit the island's famously skilled archers led to the construction of a new armory.



In Sparte recruitment was already at full potential, as the polis gathered a great number of elite Spartan soldiers.



The same intense recruitment was ordered in Korinthos and Makedonia. But there the troops were far inferior.



In an attempt to solve this problem, Damasos used his power as Hegemon to build new barracks and recruit the stratia requested by the Spartan council.



A well trained spy was sent to gather information on the polis of Halikarnassos.



But the polis seems to be heavily defended against spies. Perhaps they are hiding something they don't want us to know?



We could only gather a little information on Halikarnassos.



In Sinope our spies had no success either.







Peace can only come after war. In order to assert the Koinon's power in Anatolia, Poublios attacked, just south of Ipsos, the last Seleukid stratia in the region.























With this victory and the stalemate with Pontos - who didn't dare move any closer to the Koinon Stratia - a peace deal was proposed between us and the other Anatolian powers: Pontos and Seleukeia.



The experienced diplomat Xanthippos Siphnios led the negotiations. For this reason, the Peace of the East also became known as the Peace of Xanthippos.




A small value in reparations was paid so that the enemy Basileioi could return to their people saying they got something out of this war. Our payment was the vast territorial gain in Anatolia.











The Spartans decided to construct a fort to control the eastern border of Thermon.



The existence of a group of rebel peasants to the north was their excuse, but the Athenians knew the real purpose of the fort.



The intense Spartan recruitment was met with an answer from Athenai, which began recruitment of elite infantry themselves.



Such was the situation in southern Hellas:



In the north, the epeirotes began their final attack against the fort of Serdike.



With a force of smelly barbarians:



But not content with besieging our fort, they bypassed it and went straight for the heavily defended Serdike, trapping themselves in the process. They could be easily defeated with the help of our Getai allies.



In the east there was peace after many years of war.



The romans were defeated in Messana, and the strait was blocked once again by our ships. The garrison of the city was still very strong and would prove hard to take, if such order is given to Polemarchos Akrotatos.



The Rhodian Crisis



The polis of Sparte was already looking at establishing a new government in Rhodos, one favourable to Sparte. An opportunity to do this arose when a Rhodian married into the Agiad royal family. Androkadas married the second daughter of King Akrotatos, who was impressed by the man's popularity.



The current governor of Rhodos, Eugenios, has remained strong in his position as governor of the island, but that was only because there was no one else to challenge his position. Androkadas could change everything.

Due to the Rhodian inclination towards Athenai, this marriage turned out to be yet another source of conflict between the poleis: Androkadas, as a Rhodian citizen, supposedly supports Athenai, but as a husband of a Spartan princess he has to be loyal to Sparte.

In reaction to this threat to his power, Eugenios has taken Eurythion Sybarites under his wing, a Spartan, hoping to use this friendship to avoid a challenge to his rule.



Eugenios Rhodios has also written a letter to Strategos Doros, his friend, who is eager to wage a war...



Map of the Koinon by the end of 248 BC:

Polis session open!

[Tyrfingr]

Rhobrios takes the stand

Halikarnassos still refuses Athenian hegemony, and they go great lengths to hide their secrets from us, whatever they may be.

I propose that the army commanded by strategos Poublios to be re-trained and re-equipped at Pergamon, and then marched southwards for Halikarnassos. The weak must suffer the rule of the strong.

On to other matters, the peace of Xanthippos is a mockery to our rule. The treaty was nothing more than the beggings of cowards, "please stop hitting us", and we even gave them money to stay away! Such is the methods of the carthaginians, and not proud greeks! I will however honour the treaty and not agitate on further war with the pontic princes. It is however of note that no treaty has been reached with the seleukids, and that Side is but a few days march from our borders.

propose fortifications be erected in the mountain pass south of Ipsos, to check all seleukid armies from Side.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

I find your proposals to be very wise indeed Rhobrios, I AGREE

I PROPOSE that we continue to recruit elite troops in Athenai

I PROPOSE that as a response to Spartan fortifications we build fortifications in Attike, (one blocking entry to Attike from the Peloponnesos, and one north of Athenai).

I PROPOSE that we oppose any attempts on the part of the Spartans to gain control over Rhodes

I PROPOSE that we recruit heavy cavalry in Pergamon, and ship them over to Athenai to be part of our reserve force there

I PROPOSE that (if the other fleet is completed) we increase our naval strength by building a fleet of Trireme in Rhodes and when that fleet is completed, merge it with our fleet of Triereis.

I PROPOSE that our ships that are part of the Spartan fleet in the west return to our control and be part of our Athenian fleet (merge with our other fleets)

I PROPOSE that we build a fleet of Penteconterai when possible, in order to complement our fleet's heavier ships and giving it much needed numbers

[Greenlizard0.]

I agree to all proposals laid out, and would like to propose that we retreat our lend out groundtroops as wel. And we must think on how we are going to sooth the situation, the Koinon must survive.

[Populus Romanus]

The Boule shall burn.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Burn, I say! BURN!

[jirisys]

The Boule shall burn.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Burn, I say! BURN!

I agree.

~Jirisys ()

[Populus Romanus]

I agree.

~Jirisys ()

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

Rhobrios, I agree, Halikarnassos are being very secretive about their position. Much as it is generally against my nature to propose war against a free Hellenic polis, their actions leave a bad smell in the air. Is there treachoury afoot in that place? We cannot allow our hard won gains in Asia to be undermined by the possibility of their double-play.

I agree also that the peace of Xanthippos is a weak one. I thought that we here gave orders for peace with the Kingdom of Pontos only if Sinope was given over to our protection.

I AGREE with all of the proposals put before this council. With regards to my last pointy, I PROPOSE, once again, that spies and saboteurs be infiltrated into Sinope to undermine the infrastructure of Pontic rule therein.

I am also concerned as to the play being made by Sparte with regards to our allies in Rhodos. My good friend Eugenios is concerned also. I think we should watch very carefully the actions of Sparte from here on. If anything untoward should occur to Eugenios....any 'accidents' that might befall him, then I would take this not only as a threat to our freedom, but also as a personal matter - as I believe all good Athenai should.

[Populus Romanus]

Yes, the peace of Xanthippos does not look like it shall last particularly long. I would recommend not letting your guard down in Mikra Asia.

[Tyrfingr]

The room had gone silent for several minutes before Rhobrios once more took the stand.

- The passive mood of this polis session is somewhat frightening. I agree to Arthorious propositions, as well to Green Lizard's.

[Populus Romanus]

I think that is enough to make an update, no? We have plenty at TWCenter, and enough here to scrape together an update.

[Molinaargh]

248 BC
In times of trouble, a question arises.

Danger looms the Koinon. The retreat of Agis with the Spartans, the construction of fortifications in Hellas, the Athenian intentions of ending the war with Carthage - a war fought by Sparta - and, if all that wasn't enough, the Rhodian Crisis that puts Athenai and Sparte in direct confrontation over the island, all those factors have contributed to times of trouble in the Koinon.

Troubles even greater than those of the beginning of the hellenic union, when the still young and fragile alliance was shaken by the Athenian decision of not letting Spartans through Attike. The Koinon survived those confrontations and those times are past us, but there is still much disunity between the poleis.

Now more than ever.

In these troubled times we live, a great philosophy debate has been called all around the Koinon to celebrate the anniversary of the death Sokrates, 150 years ago.

It is being sponsored by the cultured athenian Nikanor Aithalidos, brother of Strategos Doros. Thinking of the the two hegemonic powers of the Koinon, the rivalries between strategoi, and the differences between polis parties, he puts forth the very relevant question:

Why are men divided?

It is up to the great men of the Koinon to answer. You, of course, herculean councilors and assemblymen!

The answers may be as short as a phrase and as long as the writer wishes. Although Athenai is famous for its philosophical abilities, citizens from all poleis of the Koinon may participate in the debate. The Spartan martial wisdom may prove valuable as well.

Nikanor, an avid reader of epic poems, socratic dialogues and a fan of greek plays, is expecting much creativity from the participants. He is particularly fond of our Koinon's history and would love to see some of our great men as characters, as examples included in the writings. Those in Hades, Elysium, and those still with us, councilors and strategoi, governors and assemblymen, Athenians and Spartans.

Results

As a true Athenian, Nikanor has said that the winner will be decided through a grand voting. This voting will be held a week from now (Saturday, April 2), at which time the debate will end.

The winner will receive the title of Megas Philosophos, given by the authorities of the Koinon Hellenon, and will join the Koinon Hellenon Pantheion, to be remembered throughout history.

May the debate begin!

[jirisys]

(...)when the still young and fragile alliance was shaken by the Athenian decision of not letting Spartans through Attike. The Koinon survived those confrontations and those times are past us(...)

I'd like to point out that those are thanks to me. My lasts post could apply to this, as I do not wish to say it again. Though if you wait 5 more years, my participation might become less sporadic.

Also I want to reccomend that you use Megas Methuselah's civil war method (having the battles on custom battle and removing the men from their armies).

~Jirisys ()

[Populus Romanus]

I'd like to point out that those are thanks to me. My lasts post could apply to this, as I do not wish to say it again. Though if you wait 5 more years, my participation might become less sporadic.

Also I want to reccomend that you use Megas Methuselah's civil war method (having the battles on custom battle and removing the men from their armies).

~Jirisys ()

^This is the cause of our disunity. Kill it! Kill it now!

[Molinaargh]

I'd like to point out that those are thanks to me. My lasts post could apply to this, as I do not wish to say it again. Though if you wait 5 more years, my participation might become less sporadic.

Also I want to reccomend that you use Megas Methuselah's civil war method (having the battles on custom battle and removing the men from their armies).

~Jirisys ()

Do not take full credit for something you have no full credit for. Even if it was your proposal, proposals need approval, so it is not your sole doing, but of the Boule.

I disagree with your recommendation and will use my own method as I see it as better.

Also, I wouldn't wait a second for you. You can try to catch up if you want.